106 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

Mcgral18, on 09 June 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

80% heat spike...but dat FLD.

Shoot Gauss + 3xPPC once then Gauss +2xPPC = 80 damage in about 5 sec.

[Bobzilla]

One side with mulitple poptarts, very effective, chances are they will win.
Two sides with multiple poptarts, crap shoot, stale gameplay.

This is the problem. Can poptarts be beat, sure. Is the the best way to beat them is use them, yes.

If it's OP or not, it is becoming so common it's boring. Boring games die. If game play doesn't evolve, or have the tools to evolve, it will die. This isn't a one time purchase game like CoD or starcraft where they can make a second or third version if this one gets stale and played out. It's also unlike WoW where they can charge for the work of realsing a new expansion when things get stale and played out. In MWO if its stale and played out, people stop spending money, if they aren't getting money, they pull the plug.

[Flyby215]

Bobzilla, on 10 June 2014 - 04:56 AM, said:

One side with mulitple poptarts, very effective, chances are they will win.
Two sides with multiple poptarts, crap shoot, stale gameplay.

This is the problem. Can poptarts be beat, sure. Is the the best way to beat them is use them, yes.

If it's OP or not, it is becoming so common it's boring. Boring games die. If game play doesn't evolve, or have the tools to evolve, it will die. This isn't a one time purchase game like CoD or starcraft where they can make a second or third version if this one gets stale and played out. It's also unlike WoW where they can charge for the work of realsing a new expansion when things get stale and played out. In MWO if its stale and played out, people stop spending money, if they aren't getting money, they pull the plug.

But think of how much money PGI must be making off of selling Dragonslayers; effectively a must-have to remain competitive among the elite groups.

[Wrathful-Khan]

[Vyrago]

do you even jump-snipe bro?

[YueFei]

Shredhead, on 09 June 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Teams of poptarts turn the game into a trenchwar? BS. Meta jumpsnipers are most effectively used always pushing, always on the move. Standing poptarts are toast and get outplayed easily.

Now, as a poptarter myself I'd really like to see more competition, I'd honestly like to go back to my old favorite SRM/AC20/ML playstyle, but that's not possible right now. The following things have to change:

- Less movement restrictions on non JJ mechs. This is too big a tactical disadvantage. These mechs are, with enough map knowledge, easily predictable.
- Buffs for brawlers. One buff could be to make the reticule shake when jetting actually follow the weapon direction. Jumping brawlers would benefit greatly from this, while jumpsnipers on long range still have to cut engine for precise hits.
Btw, there was never a reticule shake when you cut the jets off, you remember that wrong. I was jumpsniping pretty damn well during that time.
- The upcoming Buckton fix. Seriously, we need reliable SRMs back.

Yep. Turning focus away from the jumpjets themselves for a moment, I would like to point out that mechs with long range weapons can more easily setup overlapping fields of fire to threaten and control a larger portion of the map, and more easily focus-fire, as compared with mechs with short-range weapons.

Thus, short-range brawlers should be more capable of quickly killing single targets on their own.

Unfortunately, if you do a run in Testing Grounds, at 90 meters, using a front-facing Awesome as the target dummy, 2xASRM6 vs 1xAC5... the 2xASRM6 kill the target 23% faster than the 1xAC5. That is with the current tighter spread and damage at 2.15 per missile. The 2xASRM6 weigh the same tonnage, take more crit slots, use 2 hardpoints instead of 1, and generate 250% more heat than the 1xAC5 in order to kill that Awesome. The SRMs on paper deal alot more damage, but it is not effective damage-on-target because some of the missiles veer off to hit arms and legs (yes, even at 90 meters, and yes, even with Artemis equipped, and yes... even when shooting at a friggin Awesome head-on).

There is not enough of an advantage to take what should be a premier brawling weapon.

People do not like getting gibbed quickly, but honestly, if you let someone with a stack of SRMs in close to you, and they are fresh 100% and the fight starts at 90 meters, you have already made a mistake, and deserve to be beaten before the first salvo is even fired. Unfortunately with how neutered SRMs have been, even starting a fight at 90 meters in fresh 100% mechs, the SRMs barely yield any advantage. And because SRMs generate so much more heat, against an actively moving and twisting target, you may end up pushing the limits of your heat and have to slow down rate-of-fire, giving away your TTK advantage over the AC5.

Remember, Paul wants to nerf SRMs back to 1.5 damage-per-missile once the Buckton HSR fix is in. Testing Grounds has no lag, no HSR or hit detection problems, and even in that ideal sterile environment, they are still underperforming compared to the AC5 at 90 meters (!!).

Personally I would like to see a cone-shaped spread pattern for SRMs that is tightened by Artemis, and damage to 2.5 per missile. Basically, I would not mind that even at 250 meters, the SRM and AC5 are similar in performance. But with the cone pattern, as you get closer, more and more of your missile damage concentrates where you want it to, so as you close in, SRM performance ramps up dramatically and far outstrips the AC5. AC5 has more than double the range that SRMs do. Would it be too much to ask that SRMs kill targets more than twice as fast as AC5 does at point-blank-range?

[East Indy]

Rhent, on 09 June 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

The Dev's had the reticle shake on the downward fall but they broke down like weak sisters and pulled it almost immediately.

Fall damage is their subtle way of shortening the window without reticle shake by requiring time feathering jets. We'll have to see how effective it is.

Edited by East Indy, 10 June 2014 - 09:12 AM.