106 replies to this topic

[Jetfire]

My old Cataphract-3D with 2x ER PPC and Gauss with 1 JJ still works. Leg damage will break it and I am all too happy to see it go. High FLD needs penalties or it becomes the default.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

.

Offhand, I can think of at least 2 good ways to kill dragon slayer jump snipers.

#1. Brawl inside 90 meters to make their PPC's useless.

#2. Fight them at 800-900 meters or further distance where PPC's don't inflict damage.

I've done both.

If the problem with jump snipers is a lot of people hang out at around 540 meters where jump snipers deal maximum damage -- I'm not sure it means jump sniping is overpowered.

It could just mean people don't know any better than to move inside or outside that redzone 540 m range where jump snipers are dangerous & there's a fundamental lack of knowledge on how to counter the PPC jump sniper.

A lot of people who don't know how to counter LRM's say LRM's are overpowered.

That has more to do with people not knowing any better than to stand out in the open than it does with LRM's dealing too much damage.

Its possible jump sniping is the same. People might say jump sniping is overpowered because they don't know how to react to it moreso than it needing to be nerfed.

...

Like someone said, using jump jets is fun. It gives me something to do when I get bored of doing other things in this game.

Nerfing jump jets makes the game less fun. It limits the number of tactics and strategies people can use. That's bad for the game. Nerfing jump snipers because they make things challenging is the wrong way to go about things, imo.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 09 June 2014 - 10:03 AM.

[HeavyRain]

it is never THE jump sniper, please don't keep saying you can kill jump snipers, it's always the 3 or 4 jumpsnipers covering each other, with a few pugs at the front as meatshields for good measure.
A competent brawler can easily deal with a poptart up close, but not when there are 2 more shooting 30-point alphas on his back while he's doing it.
So you can't shoot at them from a distance, you can't kill them from up close unless you isolate them. What you can do is have a well-coordinated team on coms that can overcome those obstacles, but then you realise that if your team is good enough to do that for a given amount of effort, you can poptart and get the same results with less effort.
Boring? Absolutely.
Effective? We all know that it is.
I am one of the many people that ask for the reticle to shake for the entire time that a mech stays in the air. It's already in the game, they don't need to code for it and it would stop people from shooting things while in the air except when brawling at close range.
The good players are still going to be good, they are still going to win matches, it's just that they will need to do some extra work and take some more hits from the enemy.

[Rhent]

HeavyRain, on 09 June 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

it is never THE jump sniper, please don't keep saying you can kill jump snipers, it's always the 3 or 4 jumpsnipers covering each other, with a few pugs at the front as meatshields for good measure.
A competent brawler can easily deal with a poptart up close, but not when there are 2 more shooting 30-point alphas on his back while he's doing it.
So you can't shoot at them from a distance, you can't kill them from up close unless you isolate them. What you can do is have a well-coordinated team on coms that can overcome those obstacles, but then you realise that if your team is good enough to do that for a given amount of effort, you can poptart and get the same results with less effort.
Boring? Absolutely.
Effective? We all know that it is.
I am one of the many people that ask for the reticle to shake for the entire time that a mech stays in the air. It's already in the game, they don't need to code for it and it would stop people from shooting things while in the air except when brawling at close range.
The good players are still going to be good, they are still going to win matches, it's just that they will need to do some extra work and take some more hits from the enemy.

The Dev's had the reticle shake on the downward fall but they broke down like weak sisters and pulled it almost immediately. One of the worst case examples of lack of vision for gameplay I've seen on an online game yet. Most games, you have a feature that is OP, they fix it and deal with the crap from players. But MWO, they just buckle and wonder why their player base hates them in reviews (ecm, ghost heat, no CW, bad UI 2.0, jump sniping etc).

[Toadkillerdog]

Rhent, on 09 June 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

The Dev's had the reticle shake on the downward fall but they broke down like weak sisters and pulled it almost immediately. One of the worst case examples of lack of vision for gameplay I've seen on an online game yet. Most games, you have a feature that is OP, they fix it and deal with the crap from players. But MWO, they just buckle and wonder why their player base hates them in reviews (ecm, ghost heat, no CW, bad UI 2.0, jump sniping etc).

yeah, I remember some whining about it causing seizures or some bullshit like that. Heavy Rain also had the right idea, it's impossible to deal with a group of jumpsnipers via brawling simply because by attacking one you're exposed to three others. Not to mention that you have to be right in their face and still deal with their ACs, you now have 3 of them that can shoot you in the back. Even with an organized lance like I've done a few times, they can still pretty easily down one of you right away and just take you out one at a time.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

HeavyRain, on 09 June 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

it is never THE jump sniper, please don't keep saying you can kill jump snipers, it's always the 3 or 4 jumpsnipers covering each other, with a few pugs at the front as meatshields for good measure.
A competent brawler can easily deal with a poptart up close, but not when there are 2 more shooting 30-point alphas on his back while he's doing it.
So you can't shoot at them from a distance, you can't kill them from up close unless you isolate them. What you can do is have a well-coordinated team on coms that can overcome those obstacles, but then you realise that if your team is good enough to do that for a given amount of effort, you can poptart and get the same results with less effort.
Boring? Absolutely.
Effective? We all know that it is.
I am one of the many people that ask for the reticle to shake for the entire time that a mech stays in the air. It's already in the game, they don't need to code for it and it would stop people from shooting things while in the air except when brawling at close range.
The good players are still going to be good, they are still going to win matches, it's just that they will need to do some extra work and take some more hits from the enemy.

What's stopping you from moving to a place on the map where jump snipers have no cover up to around 700+ meters distance?

If I remember right, PPC's have about the same max range as a large laser. This would mean a PPC deals zero damage outside 900 meters. And low damage at around 700-800 meters.

If you move to a place on the map where jump snipers have no cover for that distance you might happily snipe / LRM them to death without them being able to do anything about it.

.

Rhent, on 09 June 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

The Dev's had the reticle shake on the downward fall but they broke down like weak sisters and pulled it almost immediately. One of the worst case examples of lack of vision for gameplay I've seen on an online game yet. Most games, you have a feature that is OP, they fix it and deal with the crap from players. But MWO, they just buckle and wonder why their player base hates them in reviews (ecm, ghost heat, no CW, bad UI 2.0, jump sniping etc).

What's wrong with ECM & ghost heat. Specifically.

.

[Jaguar Prime]

It would be one thing if most of the players here complaining about poptarts were going up against SJ or The Lords every other match. But the truth is most dont and some have never seen them in match. So they have no clue of just how good these guys are in Jump snipers.

What these people are failing to comprehend is these guys (SJ, the Lords, and and few other competitive teams) will beat 95% of you even if jumpsniping was removed from the game. And they will find another optimal playstyle. Then that will trickle down to the masses, then you will be here complaining again but this time about that playstyle.

For those that are saying that poptarting is easy......., yes it is. But what is really hard in this game with a little practice? Nothing........ I do know what is easier than poptarting.....brawling. Anyone stepping into this game can do that. I'm also pretty sure that most of the people complaining about poptarts are primarily brawlers. See where I'm going with this?

I dont really have a horse in then race because I brawl, poptart, laser boat, and missle boat. So I will continue to play regardless. It just kills me to see people want to kill one style of play because it is superior to theirs. Not bring it inline with there style but kill it.

[Lykaon]

I Zeratul I, on 07 June 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

A light with PPC's or large lasers can move from behind cover, unload, and run back behind cover faster than a jump sniper can.

By your reasoning light mechs should be eliminated from the game.

They should be eliminated because its a "low risk, high reward" style of gameplay.

That makes no sense to me.

Truth be told, I kill jump snipers all the time.

I kill lights that run from behind cover all the time.

I don't see any reason why someone would say either of those things are overpowered.

Maybe you can explain it?

When was the last time you saw a Jenner with two Autocannon fives,with four to six tons of ammo a pair of PPC and around fourteen double heatsinks?

Never because the weapon payload alone is more tonnage than a Jenner has.Light mechs lack the capability of mounting the highly effective weapon combinations used on poptarts so,it doesn't matter how fast they can run and dodge they can not place 30+ damage from a front loaded pinpoint weapon grouping into one spot on a targeted mech.

Specificaly "poptarting" uses the following weapons because they are front loaded pin point damage.

AC 5/10 and rarely AC20s (mostly AC5s)
PPC or ER-PPC
Gauss Rifles (rarely used due to timing the charge with the jump requires you to "walk and chew gum" )

We do not see ER-Lrg Lasers used or LBx10s or any missile weapons because they are not Front loaded damage and pin point.

And this gets me over to my point, it is the mechanics of pin point front loaded damage that is the reson for jump snipe ot poptart meta.

It is not jump jets.Jumpjets allow for an evolved tactic (poptarting) to be effective while using front loaded damage weapons.

Fix the FLD weapon issue and Poptarting is fixed

Nerf jumpjets and not FLD and we still have pokey shooty with FLD weapons as a dominant factor we will exchange the X axis for the Y axis and solve nothing.

[zortesh]

I Zeratul I, on 09 June 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

.

Offhand, I can think of at least 2 good ways to kill dragon slayer jump snipers.

#1. Brawl inside 90 meters to make their PPC's useless.

#2. Fight them at 800-900 meters or further distance where PPC's don't inflict damage.

I've done both.

If the problem with jump snipers is a lot of people hang out at around 540 meters where jump snipers deal maximum damage -- I'm not sure it means jump sniping is overpowered.

It could just mean people don't know any better than to move inside or outside that redzone 540 m range where jump snipers are dangerous & there's a fundamental lack of knowledge on how to counter the PPC jump sniper.

A lot of people who don't know how to counter LRM's say LRM's are overpowered.

That has more to do with people not knowing any better than to stand out in the open than it does with LRM's dealing too much damage.

Its possible jump sniping is the same. People might say jump sniping is overpowered because they don't know how to react to it moreso than it needing to be nerfed.

...

Like someone said, using jump jets is fun. It gives me something to do when I get bored of doing other things in this game.

Nerfing jump jets makes the game less fun. It limits the number of tactics and strategies people can use. That's bad for the game. Nerfing jump snipers because they make things challenging is the wrong way to go about things, imo.

1# inside 90 meters? thats a joke, you will never fight one on one, you certainly wont be inside 90 meters of all 4 poptarts, rushing them works

If you have a team of brawlers.
If they have the balls to charge. ( very very rare, when it happens the poptarts get massacred, thou they always inflict massive damage and casulties, they brawl almost as good as dedicated brawlers.)
If they charge at the same timing with coordination.
If the poptarts are bad enough to let them get that close.

Noone fights 1v1, noone is ever cuaght alone.... you could hug a poptart in single combat, you can't do it in a actual battle.

Here what happens in reality... you get close enough, say 100 meters, somehow without them shooting you, which relies on there incompetence more then your skills most of the time.

First guy cacthes 8 ppcs and 8 ac5's to there right torso, cuz everyone aims at right torso's, that guys side torso dissappears, if hes xl hes dead right there, if not hes crippled and has lost over 50% of his weapons since most heavy weapons are mounted on the right.

Unless there mechs with easy to hit ct's then there ct is gone and there dead no matter how there built.

He then gets destroyed in seconds by sustained ac5 fire or attempts to retreat back through advancing allies and messes with there charge. ( the most common response is the latter.)

Occasionally they will just move onto crippling or killing the next dangerous enemy.

They will wipe out 5 or 6 enemies in short order usally, routing the whole force in moments, occasionally the brawlers win... but thats far less common then the meta builds cutting them to pieces in seconds, which only ever happens when the poptarts panic.

I've been on both sides of the fight, and as a coordinated poptart lance i can say its easy to wipe 4-6 mechs attempting to close with you out of existence, someone calls component and we all just that component off, usally in about a second.

2# outsnipe them? with what? guass rifles? it sortof works, they can advance while poptarting from cover far easyier then you can counter snipe them.

The only practical way i've found to deal with jumpsnipers is.
A: simply jumpsnipe better.
b: far less practical, hunt them with narc beacons, watch them scream and whine about no skill lrms.(satisfying and hilarious.)

I can deal with poptarts, mostly, with a team that will cooperate... but most of the time a single poptart lance will massacre half a team, get two lances vs a non-poptart team? it wont even be a fight.

I do like my dual guass + erppc cataphract... That things just the most brutally lethal mech i've ever used, makes my boomjager seem downright harmless.

I want jumpsniping to be a challenge myself, its ridiculously easy currently.... i play jumpsnipers when i feel like easy games, anything else when i wanna challenge myself.

Edited by zortesh, 09 June 2014 - 03:31 PM.

[KharnZor]

Rhent, on 09 June 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

The Dev's had the reticle shake on the downward fall but they broke down like weak sisters and pulled it almost immediately. One of the worst case examples of lack of vision for gameplay I've seen on an online game yet. Most games, you have a feature that is OP, they fix it and deal with the crap from players. But MWO, they just buckle and wonder why their player base hates them in reviews (ecm, ghost heat, no CW, bad UI 2.0, jump sniping etc).

I actually vomited the first time i experienced the shake.......was weird as i've never been affected by anything like that before in my life. Over the next couple of days it lessened to a mild uncomfortable feeling and then it stopped.

[Gyrok]

Rhent, on 07 June 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

I've already explained it, are you slow? A tactic where you expose your self for 2 seconds and have greatly enhanced torso turn ability to shield yourself from damage while in the air is a low risk high reward tactic. If you wonder why there are so many posts against Jump Sniping, go back to Sept 2013 and think back to all the threads on splatcats and streak boats. You'll notice the exact same amount of hate against that low risk high reward tactic.

Umm...what Victor are you playing? Highlanders are better jump snipers than Victors these days...SHDs and CTFs are too...the only reason VTRs are even discussed is to save weight to take more of the others in the assault class. Look at most competitive DS players...they run 4 JJs. I run 4 JJs on my highlander and can get twice the altitude if I need it, or twice as many jumps, it just lifts a tad slower to start...but once going it is fine with 4 JJs.

Victor is overnerfed...

[Gyrok]

zortesh, on 09 June 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

1# inside 90 meters? thats a joke, you will never fight one on one, you certainly wont be inside 90 meters of all 4 poptarts, rushing them works

If you have a team of brawlers.
If they have the balls to charge. ( very very rare, when it happens the poptarts get massacred, thou they always inflict massive damage and casulties, they brawl almost as good as dedicated brawlers.)
If they charge at the same timing with coordination.
If the poptarts are bad enough to let them get that close.

Noone fights 1v1, noone is ever cuaght alone.... you could hug a poptart in single combat, you can't do it in a actual battle.

Here what happens in reality... you get close enough, say 100 meters, somehow without them shooting you, which relies on there incompetence more then your skills most of the time.

First guy cacthes 8 ppcs and 8 ac5's to there right torso, cuz everyone aims at right torso's, that guys side torso dissappears, if hes xl hes dead right there, if not hes crippled and has lost over 50% of his weapons since most heavy weapons are mounted on the right.

Unless there mechs with easy to hit ct's then there ct is gone and there dead no matter how there built.

He then gets destroyed in seconds by sustained ac5 fire or attempts to retreat back through advancing allies and messes with there charge. ( the most common response is the latter.)

Occasionally they will just move onto crippling or killing the next dangerous enemy.

They will wipe out 5 or 6 enemies in short order usally, routing the whole force in moments, occasionally the brawlers win... but thats far less common then the meta builds cutting them to pieces in seconds, which only ever happens when the poptarts panic.

I've been on both sides of the fight, and as a coordinated poptart lance i can say its easy to wipe 4-6 mechs attempting to close with you out of existence, someone calls component and we all just that component off, usally in about a second.

2# outsnipe them? with what? guass rifles? it sortof works, they can advance while poptarting from cover far easyier then you can counter snipe them.

The only practical way i've found to deal with jumpsnipers is.
A: simply jumpsnipe better.
b: far less practical, hunt them with narc beacons, watch them scream and whine about no skill lrms.(satisfying and hilarious.)

I can deal with poptarts, mostly, with a team that will cooperate... but most of the time a single poptart lance will massacre half a team, get two lances vs a non-poptart team? it wont even be a fight.

I do like my dual guass + erppc cataphract... That things just the most brutally lethal mech i've ever used, makes my boomjager seem downright harmless.

I want jumpsniping to be a challenge myself, its ridiculously easy currently.... i play jumpsnipers when i feel like easy games, anything else when i wanna challenge myself.

HGN 732 Gauss + 3xPPC...try that....seriously.

[Mcgral18]

Gyrok, on 09 June 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

HGN 732 Gauss + 3xPPC...try that....seriously.

80% heat spike...but dat FLD.

[Utilyan]

Never been killed by a pop-tart. Then again I fight on the super epeen-legendary urbamech elo level....(you have to open the secret passage forest colony cave to get there) .We shoot curving AC/ rounds and block lasers with LAZORS......everyone knows how to kill 4 people at the same time with artillery one way, missles another, torso guns here and curve shot arms there......Some folks don't even put armor on they all die from head shots....... we don't whine about this noob sheet........POP-Tarts.....seriously?......

[Gyrok]

Mcgral18, on 09 June 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

80% heat spike...but dat FLD.

Nah, not that bad, on Caustic I can Alpha twice before I have to start cycling PPCs in chain fire.

By the time you get 2 off, the CT on an Atlas is gone inside 540m, he is literally down to internals, unless he has WAY frontloaded armor, then his armor is blood red and internals will show if you sneeze on him.

[Mcgral18]

Gyrok, on 09 June 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

Nah, not that bad, on Caustic I can Alpha twice before I have to start cycling PPCs in chain fire.

By the time you get 2 off, the CT on an Atlas is gone inside 540m, he is literally down to internals, unless he has WAY frontloaded armor, then his armor is blood red and internals will show if you sneeze on him.

Well, without the elite skill, my build is indeed 80% with the ghost heat. You'll have 10% greater capacity, and 7.5 better cooling.

But yes, playing it as a standard meta mech with an extra 10 damage works decently after that opening shot. Still Basic skills though...it's just so slow at 57.

[zortesh]

Gyrok, on 09 June 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

HGN 732 Gauss + 3xPPC...try that....seriously.

I has seen that build, and i want to pilot it, thou i think the dual guass er ppc would win out due to heat management.

Dat 45pinpoint thou mmm... must try, I spos once you get hot you can fall bat on 35 damage pinpoints which is nothing to laugh at.

[Shredhead]

Gyrok, on 09 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

Umm...what Victor are you playing? Highlanders are better jump snipers than Victors these days...SHDs and CTFs are too...the only reason VTRs are even discussed is to save weight to take more of the others in the assault class. Look at most competitive DS players...they run 4 JJs. I run 4 JJs on my highlander and can get twice the altitude if I need it, or twice as many jumps, it just lifts a tad slower to start...but once going it is fine with 4 JJs.

Victor is overnerfed...

Sorry dude but nobody uses Highlanders in top comp play. With your payload you'd have to use XL, so the advantage of having a "tank" side is lost, and the inertia of the JJs is just bad.

Toadkillerdog, on 09 June 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

It's not even so much the discipline or anything that makes poptarts a pain in the ass, you can have a skilled lance of anything else, it's that poptarts essentially sacrafice the entire game (both for themselves and their enemy) solely for the sake of winning. If the meta were something that required moving around and actually fighting, something like splatcats or ac40 jagers, a lot of us wouldn't mind so much, but teams of poptarts turn the game into a long drawn out trench war, and there is no viable way to counter them. They take what's supposed to be an active fighting game and turn it into a chore, simply a competition to see who can sit in one spot and hit the other more. It's like playing Starcraft with only siege tanks.

Teams of poptarts turn the game into a trenchwar? BS. Meta jumpsnipers are most effectively used always pushing, always on the move. Standing poptarts are toast and get outplayed easily.

Now, as a poptarter myself I'd really like to see more competition, I'd honestly like to go back to my old favorite SRM/AC20/ML playstyle, but that's not possible right now. The following things have to change:

- Less movement restrictions on non JJ mechs. This is too big a tactical disadvantage. These mechs are, with enough map knowledge, easily predictable.
- Buffs for brawlers. One buff could be to make the reticule shake when jetting actually follow the weapon direction. Jumping brawlers would benefit greatly from this, while jumpsnipers on long range still have to cut engine for precise hits.
Btw, there was never a reticule shake when you cut the jets off, you remember that wrong. I was jumpsniping pretty damn well during that time.
- The upcoming Buckton fix. Seriously, we need reliable SRMs back.

Some misconceptions some here have:
Poptarting is easy. Poptarting, yes, good jumpsniping is not. Yes, in any case you can minimize risk of exposure, but hitting moving mechs reliably while on the move yourself needs a lot of practice. There's a distinct skill gap between good and excellent.
As someone earlier pointed out, jumpsniping itself doesn't net you much damage. Precision means usually less damage. High damage from skilled players usually stems from strikes and/or carrying really hard. Games with pretty much equally skilled players in your team tend to even out damage numbers.
Fall damage overhaul will hit jumpsnipers hard. No, not at all. I usually don't even need half of my fuel to get the shot out, there's enough left to cushion my fall, if the jump was even high enough.
As someone pointed out, non JJ mechs will be hit the hardest again by this change.
JJ heat will hurt jumpsnipers. Wrong again, I'll just have to wait a second longer, if at all, to reduce the heat between shots. Jumping brawlers will be hit the most again, as you have to ride the edge constantly within a brawl. Lights and mediums will suffer the most of this.

[Gyrok]

Shredhead, on 09 June 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Sorry dude but nobody uses Highlanders in top comp play. With your payload you'd have to use XL, so the advantage of having a "tank" side is lost, and the inertia of the JJs is just bad.


Teams of poptarts turn the game into a trenchwar? BS. Meta jumpsnipers are most effectively used always pushing, always on the move. Standing poptarts are toast and get outplayed easily.

Now, as a poptarter myself I'd really like to see more competition, I'd honestly like to go back to my old favorite SRM/AC20/ML playstyle, but that's not possible right now. The following things have to change:

- Less movement restrictions on non JJ mechs. This is too big a tactical disadvantage. These mechs are, with enough map knowledge, easily predictable.
- Buffs for brawlers. One buff could be to make the reticule shake when jetting actually follow the weapon direction. Jumping brawlers would benefit greatly from this, while jumpsnipers on long range still have to cut engine for precise hits.
Btw, there was never a reticule shake when you cut the jets off, you remember that wrong. I was jumpsniping pretty damn well during that time.
- The upcoming Buckton fix. Seriously, we need reliable SRMs back.

Some misconceptions some here have:
Poptarting is easy. Poptarting, yes, good jumpsniping is not. Yes, in any case you can minimize risk of exposure, but hitting moving mechs reliably while on the move yourself needs a lot of practice. There's a distinct skill gap between good and excellent.
As someone earlier pointed out, jumpsniping itself doesn't net you much damage. Precision means usually less damage. High damage from skilled players usually stems from strikes and/or carrying really hard. Games with pretty much equally skilled players in your team tend to even out damage numbers.
Fall damage overhaul will hit jumpsnipers hard. No, not at all. I usually don't even need half of my fuel to get the shot out, there's enough left to cushion my fall, if the jump was even high enough.
As someone pointed out, non JJ mechs will be hit the hardest again by this change.
JJ heat will hurt jumpsnipers. Wrong again, I'll just have to wait a second longer, if at all, to reduce the heat between shots. Jumping brawlers will be hit the most again, as you have to ride the edge constantly within a brawl. Lights and mediums will suffer the most of this.

Victors are what you see from HoL...they are about the only ones at top level that run them exclusively...

SJR run them sometimes...but you see as many run HGN as VTR when the tonnage is less constrained.

228th also only run them situationally...depending on drop deck.

My Clan is in Marik Civil War, we see those guys, we drop with them for scrims sometimes...I see what they run...and victors are considered inferior to many different mechs because they have been nerfed into oblivion and do not have the mobility they SHOULD.

Also HGN with 4 JJs jumps like a Victor with 4, except you can get a LOT more hops out of the HGN than you can the Victor...plus once the new JJ changes come, you will NEED the fuel to prevent fall damage...

Victor is on the way out...you are just behind the times...

Mcgral18, on 09 June 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

Well, without the elite skill, my build is indeed 80% with the ghost heat. You'll have 10% greater capacity, and 7.5 better cooling.

But yes, playing it as a standard meta mech with an extra 10 damage works decently after that opening shot. Still Basic skills though...it's just so slow at 57.

Yes, mastered it is ENTIRELY a different mech and build...speed tweak, etc...makes a BIG difference, plus double basic masteries make it MUCH more impactful...

Just be prepared...crocodile tears of QQ follow in the wake of that mech...LOL.

[Shredhead]

Gyrok, on 09 June 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

Victors are what you see from HoL...they are about the only ones at top level that run them exclusively...

SJR run them sometimes...but you see as many run HGN as VTR when the tonnage is less constrained.

228th also only run them situationally...depending on drop deck.

My Clan is in Marik Civil War, we see those guys, we drop with them for scrims sometimes...I see what they run...and victors are considered inferior to many different mechs because they have been nerfed into oblivion and do not have the mobility they SHOULD.

Also HGN with 4 JJs jumps like a Victor with 4, except you can get a LOT more hops out of the HGN than you can the Victor...plus once the new JJ changes come, you will NEED the fuel to prevent fall damage...

Victor is on the way out...you are just behind the times...

Uhm, I was playing with 228th the whole time during the last weeks. Nobody considers the Highlander to be better than a Victor, especially not with an XL fit.
Yes, you might see them once in a while in MCW, but that's mostly due to restrictions and drop tonnage, not because they're better at anything. You can turn them into quite mean standard engine brawlers, but meta fits are way better on the faster Victors.