517 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 June 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

Only one question.
How does a targeting computer make Cannon shells and Amplified light move FASTER? Seriously?

Not that I support the idea (I don't)...

But you can vary its wavelength and polarize/collimate it in such a way to increase atmospheric penetration. Beyond that... you're SOL.

And a targeting computer wouldn't be doing all that. It only helps you lead your target and focus your weapons. But I've heard of crazier things. Like making ice in a desert. Didn't you ever hear of the sacred ice shaman who waves a wand made out of a cactus in the Mojave desert to coax ice out of Roswell incident debris that fell out of an Area 51 UFO several years ago?

[Raigner]

I am very disappointed, and with the TC the CC and the weapons, this whole thing just reeks of poor planning, last minute ideas to throw something up and complete lack of testing. and in the case of the CC shear laziness. i have been fighting the whole clans DOA since the beginning but this just confirms it for me you guys have no idea what your doing.

You want me to solve your LBX problem? You got the stats right? The weapon coded? Good. Give it 0 weight, 0 crit space cost, and attach it as a ghost weapon to every clan LBX canister shot type Autocannon, so when they equip one, they actually equip 2 AC's one of witch is in a phantom slot. Like how the Cry engine treats under slung attachments to rifles. Then when you press the toggle fire mode button it just changes the whole gun out. Same effect as switchable ammunition, but a whole lot easier. oh and put a fire prevention script in whatever weapon occupies the phantom AC slot. naturally the autocannon once switched out will weigh noting and take up no space but that's inconsequential once you actually in a match, and it would have to draw from 2 ammo pools for cluster and slug ammo but that's what you are aiming for on this weapon anyways. while you in the prcess of making toggle hotkeys, make a TAG and True Arm-Lock Toggle.

Clan PPCs? you already got your mechanic in place. Most clan mechs only come with 2 CERPPC's per stock verrent let them only be able too fire 2 at the same time, and give them there actual values, what are you afraid of? it will barely deliver more damage then a guass rifle but with 15 times the heat generation. this will stop people boating them. as for the warhawk? its supposed to chain fire them anyways. give both clan ERPPCS and the IS ERPPC the same splash mechanic, this will actually give people a reason to use the IS ERPPC over the standard IS PPC. let the clans keep there 15 point core damage, this way you will not be gimping the clans work horse weapon. even at the current rate its going to take around 9 CERPPC hits to the center torso to kill a Battlemaster 10-11 for an Atlas vs the 14-15 shots it will take now with 10 damage core.

As for the LRM's fine whatever they don't work and you haven't even started testing? My question is 2 fold. If you haven't even started testing then how do you know how these LRMs will preform with no minimum range? You fear a streak 20? I believe the damage will be so spread out over the chassis you wont have to worry. Whatever not working not tested. So my second question what have you been doing? You have had 6 months to get these LRMs working, and you haven't even started testing them yet?

As for the Targeting Computer and Command Console. you had no idea what these devices would do till Russ asked you last week did you? because this absolutely reeks of last minute desperation. just stat value adjustments. that's like a days worth of work testing not included. the targeting computer is supposed to change the HUD for clan weapons providing shot vectors more detailed ballistics info the targets direction and velocity and a leading cross hair for more accurate shot placement all things that the cry engine is more then capable of doing.

As for the command console you guys said yourself that that was supposed to provide advanced battlefield orders for commanders get PIP functionally with reconnaissance lances and call in off map artillery and air strikes. something you replaced with consumables. then after 2 and a half years of waiting you intrduce it as the targeting computers gimped little brother? 2 and a half years to make a beagle active probe with double the weight 4 times the price and plus 5% zoom? really? making this the opposite to the targeting computer because the IS has to have something similar in order for it to fill balanced is just lazy and cowardly. and once again tells me that this was just something slapped together.

The clans excelled at dueling and quick fast engagements on a small scale at extreme range, they were renowned for there accuracy so at least the targeting computer keeps to the theme. the Inner Sphere were better then the clans at large scale all out warfare as they have been doing it for 400 years. have the command console keep into the theme of that, have it do something or adjust something that is unique to the IS rather then be a targeting computer with 3/4th of its legs shot out from under it.

I look at all of this and i think you could do better. so much better.

Edited by Raigner, 09 June 2014 - 01:42 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

ed3n1, on 09 June 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

/snip

For the same reasons the ARP 2500...



Is a better synthesizer than the modern Roland Gaia SH-01




The ARP 2500 is legendary. The sound is sublime. The internals, the hardware, the analog dials, the superior oscillators.

Newer, more digital and smaller are hardly always better. Some of the older, bigger stuff is just built way better, thus performs better.

[Khobai]

CTC and CC are an ideal opportunity to differentiate how Clans and IS play the game. Clans should be more about selfish play. While IS should be more about teamwork.

CTC is pretty selfish as is, so dont really need to do anything to change that.

However the CC should convey its bonuses to ALL friendly IS mechs in the same lance (+sensor range and +detailed sensor info speed).

Additionally C3 networks could be implemented for IS as the second half of this... mechs with C3 master computers (5 tons and 5 crits) would give projectile/beam range, projectile speed, and possibly critical hit buffs to ALL friendly IS mechs in the same lance (to simplify things, C3 slave computers would be equipped for free on all IS mechs). C3 networks could of course be disrupted by ECM just like in tabletop. And the C3 master computer would come with its integrated TAG.

So IS would get similar bonuses to what Clans get, but how they apply/receive those bonuses would be entirely different. IS would have to rely more on specialized command mechs to buff other mechs.


Examples:

Command Console
Weight: 3 tons.
Slots: 1 slot.
Zoom distance: [+5.25]% (equipped mech only)
Grants ALL IS mechs in the same lance the following bonuses while within 800m? of the Command Console (multiple CCs wouldnt stack).

• Sensor range: [+3.00]%
  
• Time to gather target info: [-10.25]%

C3 Master Computer
Weight: 5 tons.
Slots: 5 slots.
Comes with integrated TAG laser
Grants ALL IS mechs in the same lance the following bonuses while within 800m? of the C3 Master Computer (multiple C3 MCs wouldnt stack):

• Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+4.5]%
  
• Beam weapon long ranges: [+4.5]%
  
• Beam weapon max ranges: [+4.5]%
  
• Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+14.5]%

Edited by Khobai, 09 June 2014 - 08:25 PM.

[Raigner]

Khobai, on 09 June 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

Snip

That is a rather interesting way to look at these two devices.

[Bhael Fire]

Targeting Computer design is good and fits in line with the original idea for them.

However, the Command Console design is a missed opportunity for adding more tools for information warfare. Instead of it being the IS version of the Targeting Computer, it would have been nice if it helped relay info to your team mates by boosting the sensor range of all friendly mechs within a certain radius of the mech equipped with a CC.

[wanderer]

speedrog, on 09 June 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

You are wrong, the canon Atlas have ECM in many variants, quite the opossite Atlas is the ECM-ASSAULT Canon.

All the variants you listed are 15-20 years after the current timeline, and hence do not exist in MWO. Check your dates before listing a bucket of invalid variants next time?

[Davoke]

Is this a good item to point out that the Targeting Computer isn't just a Computer? If you read up on some fluff you'll realize it also includes extra, gun-specific stabilizers, recoil dampeners, and modified myomer bundles around weapons to allow for more precise fire. A 7 ton TC has maybe 500kg of Computer weight, and 6.5 tons of extra equipment that ties into the computer.

[Reggimus]

Another underwhelming minimally viable product. Not that I was expecting more.

[Cimarb]

Reggimus, on 09 June 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

Another underwhelming minimally viable product. Not that I was expecting more.

Another typically negative post when there are tons of things to be happy about lately. Not that I was expecting less.

[100 Tonne]

TC seems fine. However the command console is a bit of a disappointment. Could it not have done something more commanding? Like link to a satellite, showing all enemy mechs for 15 sec on the battle map. (with a 5 min cool down of course)

[Sable Phoenix]

This is flat-out bad.

The TC needs to allow the targeting of individual components, and include a lead indicator that gives a reticle that tracks the amount of leading needed to hit the target based on the weapon selected. The potential for brokenness, both overpowered and underpowered, that exists in the proposed version is just... seriously how are you guys designing games? Does literally nobody in the office there see the potential problems with this?

As for the Command Console, well. This is just pure fail. Instead of doing something sensible like tying arty and air strike functionality to the CC and giving it some advanced targeting and networking abilities, it's... well, like someone already said, it's a heavier BAP. Without even all the functionality of a BAP. It's useless.

There's just so much fail here.

[El Bandito]

It does not make sense why a Targeting Computer allows a weapon to have more range, sped and crit chance.

PGI should rework it, while there is time.

Davoke, on 09 June 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Is this a good item to point out that the Targeting Computer isn't just a Computer? If you read up on some fluff you'll realize it also includes extra, gun-specific stabilizers, recoil dampeners, and modified myomer bundles around weapons to allow for more precise fire. A 7 ton TC has maybe 500kg of Computer weight, and 6.5 tons of extra equipment that ties into the computer.

And those help accuracy only, not range, speed or crit chance.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 June 2014 - 06:07 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

And those help accuracy only, not range, speed or crit chance.

projectile speed IS accuracy in MWO. Why do you think everyone snipes with PPCs? Because their fast projectile speed makes them very easy to hit with.

[Navid A1]

Khobai, on 09 June 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

projectile speed IS accuracy in MWO. Why do you think everyone snipes with PPCs? Because their fast projectile speed makes them very easy to hit with.

How much increase in projectile velocity will make a difference in this game...
give me 100% speed increase then we can talk.

seriously... 10%?
with that increase i just have to lead a "little bit" less (almost inconceivable)... it wont have ANY effect on accuracy.

Cimarb, on 09 June 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

Another typically negative post when there are tons of things to be happy about lately. Not that I was expecting less.

Is this feedback???...
well... it is.. but more about personality of someone rather about targeting computers.

[Semper Fi]

I am not sure it is in here or not, but the CC should be with all its bonus' be given over to the lance, without stack. Meaning only one CC per lance gives the bonus, however it gives it to all mechs in that lance.

Just a thought

Edited by Semper Fi, 09 June 2014 - 07:56 PM.

[Navid A1]

Khobai, on 09 June 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

Except it will.

Because the difference between an AC5 and PPC is only 350m/s which is EXTREMELY noticeable. So a 15% increase (which is about half the difference between an AC5 and PPC) will definitely make a noticeable difference.

you notice the difference in projectile velocity of AC5 and PPC... because you want to fire them in sync (at the same time).. you will notice the different travel times... compared to each other.

but consider AC5 ... i can hit with AC5 accurately regardless of its projectile speed being 1150 or 1500. it's just a matter of getting used to its velocity...

any change in projectile velocity without having any hud indicator will affect your accuracy in a negative way... be it an increase or decrease... you as a person will need to re-calibrate your brain.

Edited by Navid A1, 09 June 2014 - 08:07 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

but consider AC5 ... i can hit with AC5 accurately regardless of its projectile speed being 1150 or 1500. it's just a matter of getting used to its velocity...

No because the longer a projectile takes to travel to the enemy's location, the more likely the enemy is to change direction, meaning your projectile will no longer hit.

Slower projectiles dont just require more lead time. They also require better anticipation of where the enemy will be when the projectile arrives, because a slower projectile means theres more possible locations the enemy could be at by the time the projectile gets there. Since they have more time to change their movement vector.

So a 15% projectile speed increase will make a noticeable difference in accuracy. Because the enemy mech wont have as much time to zig or zag to avoid it.

Now could the targeting computer be better? Absolutely. A lead indicator or component subtargeting would be great. But how long would that take PGI to implement? 6 months? Id rather have a working targeting computer in 3 weeks.

Edited by Khobai, 09 June 2014 - 08:21 PM.

[Navid A1]

Khobai, on 09 June 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

No because the longer a projectile takes to travel to the enemy's location, the more likely the enemy is to change direction, meaning your projectile will no longer hit.

True.

but consider this:
imagine a target 800m away an AC5 round will reach it in 0.695s and a PPC will reach it in 0.533s the difference is 0.16s...
that kind of reaction time is out of the hands of most mechs.

Khobai, on 09 June 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

...
Slower projectiles dont just require more lead time. They also require better anticipation of where the enemy will be when the projectile arrives, because a slower projectile means theres more possible locations the enemy could be at by the time the projectile gets there. Since they have more time to change their movement vector.

So a 15% projectile speed increase will make a noticeable difference in accuracy. Because the enemy mech wont have as much time to zig or zag to avoid it.
...

all i want to say is that without a target speed and movement direction indicator (not a lead reticle easy box)... the accuracy of your weapons is in your hands only

Khobai, on 09 June 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

...
Now could the targeting computer be better? Absolutely. A lead indicator or component subtargeting would be great. But how long would that take PGI to implement? 6 months? Id rather have a working targeting computer in 3 weeks.

that i agree.

Edited by Navid A1, 09 June 2014 - 08:26 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

that kind of reaction time is out of the hands of most mechs.

A light mech can move 6m in 0.16s. Moving 6m is definitely enough for a shot to miss.

Unless your piloting a raven. Then your legs are like 6m wide. ahahaha.

Edited by Khobai, 09 June 2014 - 08:29 PM.