517 replies to this topic

[Flameraven]

So we already have a bunch of gameplay features that would be perfect for Command Console functionality (artillery and airstrikes, battlemap commands, turrets), but you make it a watered-down Targeting Computer instead...

[Judge Redeemer]

Flameraven, on 09 June 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

So we already have a bunch of gameplay features that would be perfect for Command Console functionality (artillery and airstrikes, battlemap commands, turrets), but you make it a watered-down Targeting Computer instead...

It was after all a 2year hard work dont be like that

[Lysander Voidrunner]

I just fear that this iteration of the CC and the TC will further entrench poptarting as the end-all-be-all of gameplay styles in MWO. We already have huge issues with high damage pin point alpha strikes. Now add extra crit chances and the time to kill a mech will drop even further.

[Lemming211]

I don't agree with the physics manipulation (faster projectiles and longer lasers) but I like the other Targeting Computer enhancements.

The Command Console should do something different from the targeting computer or a BAP, particularly for it's weight and size. The idea behind the equipment would be to share data and tactics. While I think it would probably be difficult to implement a number of data/target sharing enhancements such as indicating who is targeting whom, maybe the command console could provide the proposed enhancements to local mechs, effects increasing with the number of mechs inside the "bubble". Toss in a module slot and limit to command console capable mechs, like ECM or AMS.

Also, I believe the respective technologies should be limited to their respective origin mechs; clan to clan, is to is.

[jper4]

Mcgral18, on 07 June 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

So, if we stack the Target Info Gathering, Active Probe and a TC M VII...what happens with a -125% target info reduction? Is the AP wasted tonnage?

you get the information before you actually click on the mech you're about to target.

/ducks

[Navid A1]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 09 June 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

I just fear that this iteration of the CC and the TC will further entrench poptarting as the end-all-be-all of gameplay styles in MWO. We already have huge issues with high damage pin point alpha strikes. Now add extra crit chances and the time to kill a mech will drop even further.

I doubt that the targeting computer will be available to IS mechs anytime soon... so high pin point metas wont get the higher crit chance.... for now.!

Tanar, on 09 June 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

you get the information before you actually click on the mech you're about to target.

/ducks

seems like it. But most likely it would be 0.44 times the normal info gathering time.

Edited by Navid A1, 09 June 2014 - 08:32 AM.

[MasterGoa]

Snowseth, on 07 June 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

TC looks cool. Hopefully the numbers can balanced properly to be good.

The CC ... is missing something. It seems quite weak and looks like it needs something else.
FupDup's idea is good, have it add an extra 2 module slots.
Remove a module slot from all/most mechs that come with a CC unless they mount the CC (DDC! Drops from 3 to 2, 3 module slot if CC is mounted).

Additionally, there should be some way to include an 'extra pilot' with a CC (not a real extra pilot of course, unless providing a spectator Company Commander slot for a real player).
In TT the extra pilot adds +2 to initiative.
How can that be translated into MWO?

I'd say reduce the TC Target Info Gathering speed and increase it notable for the CC.
Perhaps another buff or additional bonus to somehow represent that 'extra pilot' help out with the battle.

edit:

EXTRA PILOT DUTIES: (some ideas, hell these could even be modified by CC-only modules)

Target Info Gathering [-25%]

Damage Control!
Crits to explosive ammo bins have a significantly reduced chance to explode. The premise being the extra pilot is actively trying to dump the ammo before it blows. So you still lose the ammo, but it doesn't blow up your legs or torsos.

Fire Discipline
Reduces weapon cooldown by a small amount (-5%, -10%, or something). The premise being the extra pilot is actively managing ammo stores and coolant systems, allowing the weapons to fire slightly faster.

JTAC-in-a-box
Adds an additional Airstrike or Artillery module slot (must still be purchased).
That could be so terrible though.

Multi-Targeting
No reduction in Target Info Gathering time, but all mechs in your LOS start getting info gather. Only 1 target's info is displayed at a time, but if you switch targets to a mech that has been in LOS for longer than 30s you instantly get Target Info. The premise being that the extra pilot is actively gathering info and tracking non-targeted mechs.


edit2! (08JUN1118 CDT)
New CC Module Tree!
They've already stated they're going to split the current module tree into a Mech and Pilot tree....
So add 1 more tree! A Command Console Module Tree! It's grayed out until you equip a CC.

It has 2 slots with a limited (and unique) selection of modules (see above) like the following:
1 Airstrike or 1 Arty (JTAC-in-a-box)
Multi-targeting
Fire Discipline
Damage Control
TIG Bonus
Other unique things to simulate the extra pilot.

It would fit in well with PGI module tree concept and maintain the concept of the CC.
More over it fits in with the overall PGI concept of highly configurable IS vs more powerful, but limited-configuration Clan tech.


edit3:
So the final stats would be something like:
Command Console
Weight: 3 tons.
Slots: 1 slot.
Sensor Range: [+6.0]%
Time to gather target info: [-30]%
2 Command Module Slots

Command Modules:
[+5.25]% Zoom (stacks)
[+6.0]% Sensor Range (stacks)
[+30]% TIG (stacks)
+1 Air or +1 Arty (stacks)
+1 UAV (stacks)
+1 Coolant Flush (stacks)
Multi-target: TIG on LOS non-targeted enemies
-X% Weapon Cooldown
[-50]% Ammo Explosion chance
Vulnerability Scanner

THIS POST IS FULL OF WIN!!!!

[Navid A1]

hmmm... multi-targeting for the CC... that would be nice.
it could work like a sequence... like the console keeps the target lock for the last 2 mechs (or 1) when you choose a new target.

heck... multi targeting can also work for the clan TC as well...

just... if PGI would actually listened...

[gondorff]

Carrioncrows, on 07 June 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

Neither one of these are worth a damn.

Tonnage for scan time? That's what modules are for and hell I don't even bother with those.

Hundreds of good ideas on what to do and this is what you guys came up with?

I consider both of these idea's Failures.

Another missed opportunity.

You want feedback.

Make the Command Console work like this:



1. Whoever has a command console can see what loadouts enemy mechs have (If they have been scanned)

2. Whoever has a command console can then assign targeting priority to different targets (Instead of a red box around that enemy mech it might be Purple, or Yellow to let everyone on your team know to kill that one)

3. Whoever has a command console can issue orders to lances and give them Waypoints to travel to

4. Lastly, whoever has a command console can call down artillery from the map screen. (Sort of like call of duty)

BUMP

[Jody Von Jedi]

Well, at least the CC does something now.

Question for PGI (if it's been answered, I can't find an official answer):

Will the Command Console stack with BAP?

[TygerLily]

Is Command Console mountable on any IS Mech?

[plodder]

Very insightful postings here.
I would if I could, buy you all a beer. Or a soda, or a cup of joe. I digress, what a mess, ho ho ho...
Sorry/almost.

I have always liked the idea of having the extra chair in the Atlas because of the Comand Control module.
I know tacticians that would love to have the battle in their hands. Seeing all the map info, threat assessment, etc. Having the not the concern for physically piloting the mech he is in.
A true battle commander, even if it was only in 12 man.

If there was a way to do it, would the owner of the mech be the commander, or the pilot? I would think the pilot. His machine, he drives.

Anyway, just a thought, along with these other thoughts.
GL HF o7

Edited by plodder, 09 June 2014 - 09:32 AM.

[WarHippy]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 June 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

Only one question.
How does a targeting computer make Cannon shells and Amplified light move FASTER? Seriously?

The answer must be... Aliens!

[Falcore]

I feel like high crit weapons plus Targeting computer are going to get paired alot of lots of crits.

[speedrog]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 07 June 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

The canon Atlas in Battletech does not have ECM. This change means that ECM can only be equipped on small mechs, increasing their battlefield value.

You are wrong, the canon Atlas have ECM in many variants, quite the opossite Atlas is the ECM-ASSAULT Canon.


AS7-K2
A post-Jihad Lyran Commonwealth take on the Combine's AS7-K, the K2 model of the Atlas also used a Vlar XL Engine but increased its rating to 400, giving the K2 model a top speed of 64.8 km/h. Retaining only the Gauss Rifle and ER Large Lasers of the AS7-K, the K2 carried two Guided Technologies 2nd Gen Streak SRM-6 launchers. The K2 was protected with sixteen and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor and, to protect against advanced enemy electronics, a Guardian ECM Suite. BV (1.0) = 1,751[19], BV (2.0) = 2,160[20]

AS7-Dr
A post-Jihad field refit to upgrade old Lyran milita Atlases for use by front-line LCAF units. The AS7-Dr replaced the mammoth AC/20 with a Heavy PPC, using the weight and space saved to upgrade the SRM launcher and add a Guardian ECM Suite, C3 Slave and two extra standard heat sinks[15]. BV (2.0) = 2,101[16]

AS7-K4
This Atlas is equipped with an ER PPC in each arm, an SRM-6 in the side torsos, and a Rotary AC/5 in the left torso. A Guardian ECM Suite is carried in the center torso. The two tons of SRM ammunition and three tons of RAC/5 ammunition are carried in a CASE protected bay in the right torso. The Atlas K4 is equipped with an extralight engine to allow it to hit a top speed of 64km/h. BV (2.0) = 2,153[23]

AS7-S2
The S2 Atlas was a major upgrade of the design by the Lyran Alliance. The 'Mech was built with a Light Fusion Engine and carried an Artemis IV Fire Control System enhanced LRM-15 launcher and two ER Large Lasers as its primary long range weapons. For close combat, the 'Mech was armed with a Heavy Gauss Rifle. The S2 mounted a Guardian ECM Suite to protect against enemy electronic warfare equipment. BV (1.0) = 2,147[27] (2,075)[28], BV (2.0) = 2,389

AS7-S3
The S3 Atlas is a rearmament of the S2 version. The Heavy Gauss Rifle is reduced to a standard model Gauss Rifle with sixteen shots. Each arm contains a PPC and a Small Laser. An additional Small Laser is mounted in the head. For extra defense, an AMS is installed on the left arm. The Artemis IV-enhanced LRM-15 and Guardian ECM Suite of the S2 model remain. BV (2.0) = 2,378[29]

[Bobzilla]

Gauss traveling faster, big whoop its fast enough anyways.
ACs traveling faster, they have an impluse like lasers, lasers are instant and not a problem, so big whoop.
PPCs traveling faster, could make a difference, depends on their numbers, im gonna guess the tons would be better spent on another PPC as appose to TS of the same weight.
Higher crits could make a difference.

Don't know why people are freaking out about it, im guessing the numbers will be too low to affect anything and TS will be used as much as BAP in non missle boats.

CC is pretty lame, but better than it doing nothing, which the IS weapons are balanced around, so it couldn't effect much anyways, which is why things should be implemented first, then things get balanced.



A computer could heat/cool a barrel, creating the absolute perfect size for the round through expanding/contracting, gaining optimal velocity.... Yeah, computers shouldn't control velocity to simulate accuracy, then again a gauss shouldn't charge to simulate min range, what ya gonna do.

[Davoke]

I like Targeting Comps, but i would suggest that the Command Console also gets Anti-ECM, multiple map nav-points per lance when in a commander position, and that any allied turrets within 750m get 15-20% better tracking for missiles. Plus maybe an additional 3-5% zoom over what you gave it.

[Joseph Mallan]

DocBach, on 09 June 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

Joe - here is a fluff explanation for it - the faster autocannons were too much calculation strain on older targeting computers. Cannons tied to advanced targeting computers are actually different, higher fps weapon systems that the advanced tc's can take advantage of.... or something

LOL That cannot increase the mechanics of a Loading mechanic Doc. Just cause it's written doesn't mean it makes sense. Getting a lock faster... yes, velocity increase... BS!

[Gyrok]

MightyMeatShield, on 08 June 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

I'm glad those values are placeholders because all those bonuses have the potential to unbalance the Clan vs IS that PGI has stated they want to maintain. I'll reserve judgement until after the stuff gets implemented, but I hope the development team allows the players to test these out on the test server over a few days with some trial clan mechs to see how it all translates into live gameplay. Oh, and Command Console still seems pretty underwhelming.

As long as the IS has PP FLD weapons, the Clans will HAVE to do massive burst damage. PP damage versus spread damage means that you have to do nearly 3-4 times as much damage to kill at the same rate.

[Av4tar]

So with PGI logic better computer should be bigger and heavier?
If we get TC MK100 means we will need 100 slots and 100 tons?

Old computer was big and heavy like the Z3, 1000 kg


Nowadays computer is smaller and much less lighter 1.5 kg


Small canon does small damage and bigger canon does bigger damage, thats logical.
I dont understand why a better computer has to be bigger and heavier? Doesnt make any sence.