517 replies to this topic

[Paul Inouye]

This is where you can provide feedback to the CC/TC post by David Bradley.

Spoiler

Targeting Computers and Command Console

I’m here to tell you about an upcoming good news/bad news situation. Let’s start by getting the bad news out of the way, shall we?

The arrival of the Clan 'Mechs introduces a new piece of Clan only equipment, the Targeting Computer. Unfortunately, the Targeting Computer’s functionality won’t be in place when the Clan 'Mechs arrive on June 17th. All Clan 'Mechs that come with a Targeting Computer will still receive them, the computer just won’t do anything.

Now for the good news! The Targeting Computer’s functionality will be in place in the patch following the Clan launch. Not only that, but the same patch will see the long awaited functionality of the Inner Sphere Command Console. So, at this point you probably want to know how the Targeting Computer and Command Console will work in the game. Let’s start by taking a look at the Targeting Computer.

Targeting Computers

In the tabletop game, the Targeting Computer is a piece of Clan equipment that improves the accuracy of the direct fire ballistic and energy weapons equipped on the 'Mech. The tonnage and space occupied by the Targeting Computer is variable and is based on a percentage of the total tonnage of the affected weapons currently equipped on the 'Mech. Instead of having variable weight and slots, in MWO we will have multiple different sizes of Targeting Computers ranging from 1 ton/1slot (the Mk I) to 7 tons/7 slots (the Mk VII). If a canon Clan 'Mech has a Targeting Computer as part of its default loadout, in MWO it will receive the version that matches the weight/slots of the Targeting Computer in the tabletop record sheet.

Each version of the Targeting Computer will affect the same aspects of the 'Mech, but the larger the Targeting Computer, the more pronounce the effect. Let’s take a look at the different Targeting Computers, bearing in mind that only 1 can be equipped on a 'Mech at a time.

NOTE: All values are placeholders for example purposes only. Beam weapons include all lasers; projectile weapons include all Gauss Rifles, PPCs, and non-LBX Autocannons.

Targeting Computer Mk I

Weight: 1 ton.

Slots: 1 slot.

Zoom distance: [+2.25]%

Sensor range: [+2.25]%

Time to gather target info: [-22.5]%

Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+4.5]%

Beam weapon long ranges: [+4.5]%

Beam weapon max ranges: [+4.5]%

Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+14.5]%

Targeting Computer Mk II

Weight: 2 tons.

Slots: 2 slots.

Zoom distance: [+3.25]%

Sensor range: [+3.25]%

Time to gather target info: [-32.5]%

Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+6.5]%

Beam weapon long ranges: [+6.5]%

Beam weapon max ranges: [+6.5]%

Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+16.5]%

Targeting Computer Mk III

Weight: 3 tons.

Slots: 3 slots.

Zoom distance: [+4.25]%

Sensor range: [+4.25]%

Time to gather target info: [-42.5]%

Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+8.5]%

Beam weapon long ranges: [+8.5]%

Beam weapon max ranges: [+8.5]%

Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+18.5]%

Targeting Computer Mk IV

Weight: 4 tons.

Slots: 4 slots.

Zoom distance: [+5.25]%

Sensor range: [+5.25]%

Time to gather target info: [-52.5]%

Projectile weapon projectile speed: +[10.5]%

Beam weapon long ranges: [+10.5]%

Beam weapon max ranges: [+10.5]%

Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+20.5]%

Targeting Computer Mk V

Weight: 5 tons.

Slots: 5 slots.

Zoom distance: [+6.0]%

Sensor range: [+6.0]%

Time to gather target info: [-60.0]%

Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+12.0]%

Beam weapon long ranges: [+12.0]%

Beam weapon max ranges: [+12.0]%

Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+22]%

Targeting Computer Mk VI

Weight: 6 tons.

Slots: 6 slots.

Zoom distance: [+6.75]%

Sensor range: [ +6.75]%

Time to gather target info: [-67.5]%

Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+13.5]%

Beam weapon long ranges: [+13.5]%

Beam weapon max ranges: [+13.5]%

Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+23.5]%

Targeting Computer Mk VII

Weight: 7 tons.

Slots: 7 slots.

Zoom distance: [+7.5]%

Sensor range: [+7.5]%

Time to gather target info: [-75]%

Projectile weapon projectile speed: [+15.0]%

Beam weapon long ranges: [+15.0]%

Beam weapon max ranges: [+15.0]%

Increased crit chance for projectile and beam weapons: [+25]%

Command Console

Now let’s take a look at the Inner Sphere Command Console, which will be sharing functionality similar to the Targeting Computers.

NOTE: Once again, all values are placeholders.

Command Console

Weight: 3 tons.

Slots: 1 slot.

Zoom distance: [+5.25]%

Sensor range: [+6.0]%

Time to gather target info: [-20.5]%

[Deathlike]

So, the Command Console is only a "slightly different" version of BAP with a "zoom buff"?

Compared the the Clan Targeting Computer, we have a new doorstop for the Command Console overlords.

[FupDup]

Targeting Computer: My initial impression is "not bad." I was afraid of an approach like MW3, where the thing would basically only function as a "crutch" for players who have bad aim (a demographic which I am a part of -.- ). This version seems like it would be useful for various skill levels, which is good.

Command Console: The stats seem underwhelming, but it's a start. Maybe an extra module slot or two for mechs using the CC would help?

Edited by FupDup, 07 June 2014 - 08:50 PM.

[Mcgral18]

So, if we stack the Target Info Gathering, Active Probe and a TC M VII...what happens with a -125% target info reduction? Is the AP wasted tonnage?

[Lucity]

Deathlike, on 07 June 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

So, the Command Console is only a "slightly different" version of BAP with a "zoom buff"?

Compared the the Clan Targeting Computer, we have a new doorstop for the Command Console overlords.

I'm glad we finally see a use for the Command Console, i don't have an issue with it as long as it stacks with bap etc.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Okay, fine start for the CC and the TC (regardless of when it goes live)...

I and others still want MOAR though.



So at any rate, at the very least,

Thank You!

[Deathlike]

Lucity, on 07 June 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

I'm glad we finally see a use for the Command Console, i don't have an issue with it as long as it stacks with bap etc.

While I don't have a problem with it stacking with BAP, it doesn't hold that much more value over BAP. Even then, BAP's primary use technically has more value than the proposed Command Console (anti-ECM for lights) and does the Command Console's job better.

It's only that if you have minimal use for the head slot and "spare tonnage" where this may have some use over BAP.

[GalaxyBluestar]

sounds like more standard statpadders ontop of modules... so nothing unique such as mech equipment viewing {like how many heatsinks ammo and where even for a brief duration of target lockon} nor any sort of damage thermal viewing which would match the description of helping totarget certain points.

yeah not surprised nothing new's coming, oh and it renders the new range modules as crap, get the heat free version target equipement for range modifiers etc etc.

how do you expect to balance when trials get jack and mastered players get all these stat padding modifiers to be able to shoot twice oftern twice as far as standard equipement, newbeis remain in underhive for a reason, they can never get ahead of vets.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 07 June 2014 - 08:56 PM.

[Barantor]

Is the command console only going to be available for those mechs that it comes with?

[Snowseth]

TC looks cool. Hopefully the numbers can balanced properly to be good.

The CC ... is missing something. It seems quite weak and looks like it needs something else.
FupDup's idea is good, have it add an extra 2 module slots.
Remove a module slot from all/most mechs that come with a CC unless they mount the CC (DDC! Drops from 3 to 2, 3 module slot if CC is mounted).

Additionally, there should be some way to include an 'extra pilot' with a CC (not a real extra pilot of course, unless providing a spectator Company Commander slot for a real player).
In TT the extra pilot adds +2 to initiative.
How can that be translated into MWO?

I'd say reduce the TC Target Info Gathering speed and increase it notable for the CC.
Perhaps another buff or additional bonus to somehow represent that 'extra pilot' help out with the battle.

edit:

EXTRA PILOT DUTIES: (some ideas, hell these could even be modified by CC-only modules)

Target Info Gathering [-25%]

Damage Control!
Crits to explosive ammo bins have a significantly reduced chance to explode. The premise being the extra pilot is actively trying to dump the ammo before it blows. So you still lose the ammo, but it doesn't blow up your legs or torsos.

Fire Discipline
Reduces weapon cooldown by a small amount (-5%, -10%, or something). The premise being the extra pilot is actively managing ammo stores and coolant systems, allowing the weapons to fire slightly faster.

JTAC-in-a-box
Adds an additional Airstrike or Artillery module slot (must still be purchased).
That could be so terrible though.

Multi-Targeting
No reduction in Target Info Gathering time, but all mechs in your LOS start getting info gather. Only 1 target's info is displayed at a time, but if you switch targets to a mech that has been in LOS for longer than 30s you instantly get Target Info. The premise being that the extra pilot is actively gathering info and tracking non-targeted mechs.


edit2! (08JUN1118 CDT)
New CC Module Tree!
They've already stated they're going to split the current module tree into a Mech and Pilot tree....
So add 1 more tree! A Command Console Module Tree! It's grayed out until you equip a CC.

It has 2 slots with a limited (and unique) selection of modules (see above) like the following:
1 Airstrike or 1 Arty (JTAC-in-a-box)
Multi-targeting
Fire Discipline
Damage Control
TIG Bonus
Other unique things to simulate the extra pilot.

It would fit in well with PGI module tree concept and maintain the concept of the CC.
More over it fits in with the overall PGI concept of highly configurable IS vs more powerful, but limited-configuration Clan tech.


edit3:
So the final stats would be something like:
Command Console
Weight: 3 tons.
Slots: 1 slot.
Sensor Range: [+6.0]%
Time to gather target info: [-30]%
2 Command Module Slots

Command Modules:
[+5.25]% Zoom (stacks)
[+6.0]% Sensor Range (stacks)
[+30]% TIG (stacks)
+1 Air or +1 Arty (stacks)
+1 UAV (stacks)
+1 Coolant Flush (stacks)
Multi-target: TIG on LOS non-targeted enemies
-X% Weapon Cooldown
[-50]% Ammo Explosion chance
Vulnerability Scanner

Edited by Snowseth, 08 June 2014 - 08:46 PM.

[BladeSplint]

I like the concept a lot except for the increased critical chances. Criticals are already frequent enough and this game does not need any more RNG elements.

[DragonsFire]

GalaxyBluestar, on 07 June 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

sounds like more standard statpadders ontop of modules... so nothing unique such as mech equipment viewing {like how many heatsinks ammo and where even for a brief duration of target lockon} nor any sort of damage thermal viewing which would match the description of helping totarget certain points.

yeah not surprised nothing new's coming, oh and it renders the new range modules as crap, get the heat free version target equipement for range modifiers etc etc.

I would wager that given those weapon range modules are generally for IS weapons and might not even be available for Clan mechs anyways it doesn't invalidate them. I could be wrong in that assessment as I don't remember seeing a definitive statement on what modules would be usable by Clan and IS mechs both, but that would make the most sense.

[Artgathan]

The command console's functionality, while nice and interesting, doesn't really seem to fill any "command" functionality.

[General Taskeen]

@ Barantor - I hope not, otherwise I would need to delete all additional stock Command Console 'Mechs from my list project

The TC is just sort of *shrug* it does something, but MW3's was far more interesting with being able to target individual places on the 'Mech, rather than the Mech as a whole. The Lead indicator (like on a Fighter Jet) from MW3 is directly described in the BT description of it, which is why it is the way it is in MW3.

The CC is another thing that really could be expanded upon. It seems like you Devs are making it doing something for the sake of doing something. Understandable considering its featureless existence for 2 years. If we go by Lore standards, the CC should certainly give some sort of "Commander" (refreshable) features or even a 'get out of death free card' by having your cockpit shot out from under you, only to suddenly have it refresh with one last cockpit or hell make it so only certain modules and/or consumables can be used with a CC in place. Something more unique that is different that has less to do with "targeting" or zoom.

Edited by General Taskeen, 07 June 2014 - 09:09 PM.

[Koniving]

Targeting computer feedback. I was seriously hoping it would have related to delayed convergence or another method of removing perfect precision (such as the third person crosshair replacing the first person; moving to how the third person mech is animated and thusly creating a system that aims based entirely on how the mech moves).

Impossible convergence. Really? This is taking pinpoint beyond too far.

Possible pinpoint solution. (Yes I still have to get around to the annotations; but take a watch of first person versus third person).

There is a demonstration during the Banshee, which shows that through the use of 'timing', even with the crosshair bounce caused by the mech running, it is perfectly possible to use player skill to produce consistent headshots. This 'solution' is 100% skill friendly, 100% user controlled [if aiming is difficult to time, you can slow down to make your shot. If you want a perfect shot with no chance to screw it up you can be stationary. Everything about your aim is affected by what you do and how you do it.

To further flavor it, the concept is unique to mechs, giving them each a different feel as unique as the animations they are given (and clearly affected by loadout choices such as engine as the engine and set throttle both cause changes animation play speeds).

Best of all, the solution is already in the game with minimal work required to implement it. Just take how the crosshair draws the reticule from the third person cockpit and follows the third person animations and have the first person version do exactly that.

Edited by Koniving, 07 June 2014 - 09:05 PM.

[DeadDomineus]

we can have variable consoles, but not weaponry... and wouldn't a pilot be able to exploit the target/command console by adding weapons that won't be used?

[DEN_Ninja]

I am disappointed by CC.

i am not sacrificing 3 tons for minimal gains.

[GalaxyBluestar]

DragonsFire, on 07 June 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

I would wager that given those weapon range modules are generally for IS weapons and might not even be available for Clan mechs anyways it doesn't invalidate them. I could be wrong in that assessment as I don't remember seeing a definitive statement on what modules would be usable by Clan and IS mechs both, but that would make the most sense.

target compuets for clans... command consol for IS, that's the clear imprestion i've gotten and the command consol was a paper weight for years in any mech, i haven't heard it was atlas exclusive {though people have wanted the gear to be command mech exclusive might happen}

the point is you're getting nothing new with this. it's skill tree modifiers ontop of module modifiers ontop of these new modifiers. 2 years to change command console into a zoom+sensor+target info bonus???

PLZ not even a bonus for team target locks ie: new function that would help speed up scouting and lrmers and bonus lock hold for duration between lances rather than just personal modifiers.

so little imagination with these things but then Pgi can pnly build what they can... nothing new since beta.

[AdultPuppetShow]

I'm not surprised that these pieces of equipment aren't bringing anything new or unique to gameplay, but I am disappointed.

[Imperius]

I'm going to own with all that crit