517 replies to this topic

[Speerit Ward]

So for 1 ton, you can increase your crit by almost 15%, ranges by almost 5%, etc?

You just reduced the tonnage space of every clan mech by 1 ton. This is now a piece of MANDATORY equipment. A complete NoobTax like DHS. That is TERRIBLY unbalanced. For 1 ton invested, you should not get those powerful effects.

[Judge Redeemer]

BSK, on 08 June 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

Honestly I wish the command console was a tool for community warfare, giving a field commander the option to watch a game and giving commands without having to pilot a Mech. The map options are way too complicated. Adding the old 'attack my target' would also be nice and very sufficient.

There are more of us who want this happening, sadly I dont think that will happen...

[DocBach]

Khobai, on 08 June 2014 - 06:02 AM, said:

seems a little complicated.

personally id be fine if the CC just stayed as is, but also gave its bonuses to all friendly IS mechs.

DocBach, on 08 June 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

That actually might be a really good way to do C3.

A C3 master computer grants bonuses to range and projectile speed, which scales based on how close a C3 slave unit is to an an enemy.

Khobai, on 08 June 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

Well the command console could give a zoom bonus, sensor bonus,and detailed target info speed bonus to all friendly IS mechs on the map.

While the C3 master computer could give range and projectile speed bonuses to lancemates with C3 slaves (C3 slaves should come equipped automatically for free on all IS mechs, but be useless without a C3 master computer, which would require tonnage). The C3 master computer also comes with an integrated TAG laser if I recall.

So clan mechs would have to have individual targeting computers. While IS would rely more on buffing teammates. Makes sense.

So clan mechs would have to have individual targeting computers. While IS would rely more on buffing teammates. Makes sense.

Edited by DocBach, 08 June 2014 - 06:16 AM.

[Jabilo]

Targeting computer seems interesting. I will reserve judgment till we see it in game but it seems like quite a clever way to implement it.

As stated by others, adding crit chance is a slippery slope where equipment is giving direct damage buffs and is also RnG based.

Command console is disappointing and should have had unique effects and a unique flavour. I like the idea by others whereby the IS tech gives team bonuses where the Clan tech gives individual bonuses.

This adds further flavour and suits the different philosophies of combat very well.

tldr

Targeting computer = clever and interesting
Command console = missed opportunity

Edited by Jabilo, 08 June 2014 - 06:27 AM.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

So with the state of the game where Poptarts (pin point damage) are king of the kill, will this not solidify their position as the meta-game even more? If so, what will be done to entice people to switch towards other fighting styles? Such as missile support? Brawling, Jack-Of-All-Trades? At present, if you look at statistical data, poptarting dominated the official tournament and it also dominates all other forms of competitive play. There are some groups that still hold out (with mixed results) but you never see getting accolades, despite them being really good.

[SpiralFace]

Speerit, on 08 June 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

So for 1 ton, you can increase your crit by almost 15%, ranges by almost 5%, etc?

You just reduced the tonnage space of every clan mech by 1 ton. This is now a piece of MANDATORY equipment. A complete NoobTax like DHS. That is TERRIBLY unbalanced. For 1 ton invested, you should not get those powerful effects.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

If there is some way to limit the MINIMUM that you can take with a weight class or weapons load. (Lights have full access to everything, mediums have to start at class 2, heavies 3, assaults 4,) It might curb the fact that 1 ton to basically get a full module's worth of info gathering, and bring your crit chances up to around 60% a shot is just flat out too good to pass up.

Alternatively, I would say cascade the bonus' for the 1-2 ton ones to where they are not as powerful as they are now.

CC still seems underwhelming for 3 tons, Maybe if the sensor range was 7%, and the Target info gathering was set to -42%.

This would make it similar to the clan package, but without all the perks to weapon bonus'.

[VanillaG]

I like he TC implementation. For the Command Console I would add in 2 free UAV modules that can be deployed via the map. So instead of having to run into the enemy formation to deploy a UAV, a pilot with the command console can pick a point on the map to deploy the UAV and after a 10 second delay they show up like a regular UAV. This would simulate a second operator working the sensors and managing the battlefield.

[Khobai]

Quote

Alternatively, I would say cascade the bonus' for the 1-2 ton ones to where they are not as powerful as they are now.

Agree. The TC bonuses need to scale more linearly. Right now the 1 ton TC is too good. And the 7 ton one isnt really worth it.

[Jin Ma]

meh pretty terrible. Could have done some really cool thigns with CC since its only on assaults. Give them a more defined role, like JJ, ECM, and BAP have

instead of just some minor stat boosts. This isn't a RPG

Edited by Jin Ma, 08 June 2014 - 06:55 AM.

[Magos Titanicus]

Jabilo, on 08 June 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

Targeting computer seems interesting. I will reserve judgment till we see it in game but it seems like quite a clever way to implement it.

i really like this way of making beam weapons a much more interesting choice

Edited by Magos Titanicus, 08 June 2014 - 07:00 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Command console still not required to drop arty and air? ... Fail.

[wanderer]

Quote

Command Console

Now let’s take a look at the Inner Sphere Command Console, which will be sharing functionality similar to the Targeting Computers.

NOTE: Once again, all values are placeholders.

Command Console

Weight: 3 tons.

Slots: 1 slot.

Zoom distance: [+5.25]%

Sensor range: [+6.0]%

Time to gather target info: [-20.5]%

This needs to be changed to a benefit for the entire unit it's in. It's a COMMAND console, after all. Extending sensor range and improved info gathering, certainly. Give it a considerably large reach (and I mean 1000m at least), and allow it's benefits to be negated by ECM if you want. If it gave a small bonus to lock-on time as well (say, 5-10%) it'd be nice too.

[oldradagast]

Thorqemada, on 07 June 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

Thx for the info.

Clan TC:
- I know you posted the numbers only for aesthetical purposes but even for that they feel way to big.

- Target Info Gathering speed increase may exceed 100% (with Module and BAP) ???

- Projectile Speed has no logical dependance on a TC (i unerstand you work around the TC accuracy increase but feel still not happy bcs accuracy is already way to big in this game).

Crits atm: "There is a 25% chance of causing 1 critical hit, a 14% chance of causing 2 critical hits, and a 3% chance of causing 3 critical hits (for a total of a 42% chance of any sort of critical hit)."
- The Crit Chance increase will have the effect that the Weapon with the biggest single hit damage will be mandatory and atm i guess it may be PPCs and Gauss Weapons - you be able to go over 60% Crit Chance per Weapon?


IS CC:
- Still useless.

General:
- Range + Zoom Increase is ok.

So, let me get this straight. One of the biggest problems in the game is that Time To Kill (TTK) is too short, with too much pinpoint damage and mechs melting like they are made of tissue paper.

And... now we're going to add a module that increases projectile speeds and crit chances, further reducing TTK?!

Okay, seriously - not funny guys.

I'm happy to see some ideas for the Command Module, though I think the proposals are not very "command" oriented at all, but the targeting computer is grossly disappointing and will actually make the game worse, IMHO.

[wanderer]

Zerberus, on 08 June 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

What I make of all this (weapons /TC /other stuff): Overall Clans will possibly take longer to open you up, but they will absolutely terrorize you once that happens.

4xLBX10 and a TC on a Dire Wolf, for example..

What's hilarious is that (in TT or MWO) you can't use LB-X cluster ammo with a targeting computer. At all.

What -should- have happened with TC's is that it checked much like heat sinks and engines do- that is, X amount of buffed weapons requires Y tonnage of targeting computer- every 5 tons of gun = 1 ton of TC. Would only take flagging the appropriate weapons to do so. The buff should have simply been what the 1-ton TC has now, regardless of the TC's actual weight.

Instead, we get this half-baked CC and TC system, and I'm betting Monday we'll have even kludgier Clan weapon systems to go with it.

Edited by wanderer, 08 June 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[van Uber]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 07 June 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

No, what's a terrible idea is making some mechs and variants able to mount overpowered tech like ECM while others cannot. Especially 100 ton mechs like the Atlas DDC which never even had ECM in Btech lore to begin with!

I swear, every single time someone brings up canon as an argument for balance, baby Jesus drowns a kitten.

[Keisuke Nagisa]

I would like to also add that the CC should also add a Module Slot. As is is not bad but it does not stack up against the TC.

Also the ability to see (not target) enemies that allies can see would also help to bring it in line with the clan TC. It needs something to to give it an edge against clans for the inevitable Clan Vs IS battles or else it will never be used.

[Hexenhammer]

[VanillaG]

Zerberus, on 08 June 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

What I make of all this (weapons /TC /other stuff): Overall Clans will possibly take longer to open you up, but they will absolutely terrorize you once that happens.

4xLBX10 and a TC on a Dire Wolf, for example..

TC will not work with the LBX weapons. From the OP:

Quote

NOTE: All values are placeholders for example purposes only. Beam weapons include all lasers; projectile weapons include all Gauss Rifles, PPCs, and non-LBX Autocannons.

Edited by VanillaG, 08 June 2014 - 07:32 AM.

[DocBach]

van Uber, on 08 June 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

I swear, every single time someone brings up canon as an argument for balance, baby Jesus drowns a kitten.

Yeah, I totally hate when people want this game to be more like the 30 years of backstory and lore it is based in too!

When can I have my OmniMechs form together and make an even bigger Omnimech? That'd be so cool.

Edited by DocBach, 08 June 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Bront]

Command console should either give it's benefits to the entire team (IE, be something you put in a command mech), or allow it to share targeting info of all mechs in LOS (not just the one targeted). Honestly, the second effect is more unique and has potential on every size chasis.