517 replies to this topic

[Just wanna play]

I feel as though these things should be improving lrms ability to hit their target, perhaps targeting computer and cc guiding lrms around obstacles or something

Really shouldnt tc greatly helped all automated weapons like ams, streaks, lrms and the like?

Edited by Just wanna play, 27 June 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Cimarb]

Just wanna play, on 27 June 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

I feel as though these things should be improving lrms ability to hit their target, perhaps targeting computer and cc guiding lrms around obstacles or something

Really shouldnt tc greatly helped all automated weapons like ams, streaks, lrms and the like?

The targeting computer is supposed to help direct-fire weapons, such as ballistics and lasers.

[Just wanna play]

I don't see why it can't guide lrms, i mean its already increasing projectile velocity, the logic and tt effects have already left with elvis.

[Cimarb]

Just wanna play, on 27 June 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

I don't see why it can't guide lrms, i mean its already increasing projectile velocity, the logic and tt effects have already left with elvis.

I don't see why people keep saying that. How else would you increase the accuracy of a projectile? You can give a "shoot here" reticle, which would be a drain on the system itself, or increase projectile velocity, which makes your shots hit closer to the existing reticle. I think their implementation is a good one, and fits with the description of the TC, while adding LRM support would be way off base.

[Just wanna play]

Cimarb, on 27 June 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

I don't see why people keep saying that. How else would you increase the accuracy of a projectile? You can give a "shoot here" reticle, which would be a drain on the system itself, or increase projectile velocity, which makes your shots hit closer to the existing reticle. I think their implementation is a good one, and fits with the description of the TC, while adding LRM support would be way off base.

I didn't say it was a bad idea, im just saying getting a computer to increase your bullet speed is slightly silly logic wise, and clan lrms are also losuy and in need of a buff, and the tc could help (im saying that as an is pilot keep in mind)

[Cimarb]

Just wanna play, on 27 June 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

I didn't say it was a bad idea, im just saying getting a computer to increase your bullet speed is slightly silly logic wise, and clan lrms are also losuy and in need of a buff, and the tc could help (im saying that as an is pilot keep in mind)

Clan LRMs are in just as good of a place as IS LRMs, from my experiences. I have no problem killing mechs with them.

[Just wanna play]

Many feel they are underpowered, i personally am not impressed by them, only difference is lighter launcher but you only get like 2 tubes with rapid chain fire. Ams chews it down, easier to get into cover in time, etc.

[Cimarb]

My IS mechs were always set on chainfire, so it is very similar to how the Clan LRMs work. I like the steady pounding as opposed to a large single impact. The only time AMS makes a difference is when 3+ opponents have them all at the same time.

[Nihtgenga]

Bryant Oneal, on 26 June 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

So forget physics in this game. It's the tabletop rules, not the real world.

While you're right in stating that it is not the real world - it still is BT, and MWO (at least, what PGI claims) is set in and therefore should be largely (= as far as it is possible) fitted to BT Universe. As I said, if I'd want a WoW-like MMO with robotic optics, there's PLENTY of alternative games to play, then I don't need MWO at all.

Blue doqyn, on 26 June 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

I would love to see the CC give AoE benefits to nearby allies. It would make mechs able to carry it feel more like they should in Lore. If the same bonuses are applied to allies in a 180m range, it would make it worth it to carry the CC into battle on an Atlas. Plus it would make the IS feel more unique apart from the Clans.

Fixed AoE effects are not what I would expect from the BT description of the CC. And I neither would like to see "something like an ECM, just buffin' allies than hampering enemies", nor would such a slightly different, fixed AoE effect give something "unique". CC is an strategic element of CW of the IS, so why the hell degrade it to a no-brainer, always-effective weapon-buff?

Just wanna play, on 27 June 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

I feel as though these things should be improving lrms ability to hit their target, perhaps targeting computer and cc guiding lrms around obstacles or something

Really shouldnt tc greatly helped all automated weapons like ams, streaks, lrms and the like?

Nope. A targeting computer helps in targeting. As long as a weapon system has SELF-guiding munitions like LRM (I do NOT mention SSRMs, as they shouldn't be guided from BT despite the PGI interpretation in MWO), these have a fixed intelligence, which can not be externally improved. A better built-in guidance system example would be Artemis-IV, which uses special LRMs. The only possibility for a TC to logically coherent improve such systems with munition-based (= built-in) guidance would be something like reducing the locking time. Laser/Ballistic-AMS, however, could be theoretically more effective with TC.

Just wanna play, on 27 June 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

I didn't say it was a bad idea, im just saying getting a computer to increase your bullet speed is slightly silly logic wise, and clan lrms are also losuy and in need of a buff, and the tc could help (im saying that as an is pilot keep in mind)

Creating items not according to the logic of their universe and purpose, but mainly to cover up imbalances made in another aspect of the game, is just lousy.

Immersion comes from creating the game setting as close as possible to what one would expect. And as long as PGI still claims MWO to have something to do with BT, it is clear, how this target looks like.

[Sir Tiddles]

I really like the idea of the mechanics of the targeting computer, good job to your game design team! My only complaint/suggestion would be to reduce beam weapon duration by some small percentage instead of increasing the ranges. That way it provides some bonus for beam weapons at all ranges and concentrates the damage against moving foes a little better, which makes more sense to me as the effect from a targeting computer.

Also the clans already have a good range advantage over IS mechs, and I'm not sure I want to see that gap increase any more than it already is.

[Cimarb]

Sir Tiddles, on 29 June 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

I really like the idea of the mechanics of the targeting computer, good job to your game design team! My only complaint/suggestion would be to reduce beam weapon duration by some small percentage instead of increasing the ranges. That way it provides some bonus for beam weapons at all ranges and concentrates the damage against moving foes a little better, which makes more sense to me as the effect from a targeting computer.

Also the clans already have a good range advantage over IS mechs, and I'm not sure I want to see that gap increase any more than it already is.

Totally agree. I would much rather have shorter beam duration than more range.

[wanderer]

I wouldn't mind seeing Command Consoles have an "always-on" Counter-ECM field + sensor range/target info enhancement buff that extends in an AoE around the 'Mech carrying it. Heck, make it 360m instead of ECM's 180m, it's twice the weight.

ECM needs more counters, and having a "dedicated EW guy" in the form of a command console to cut through the ECM would be part of it.

[Nihtgenga]

So you want the CC be just like a fusion of ECM (counter-mode only) and BAP with for-free C3-Computer AoE-effect = Largely a compilation of existing stuff in one item. That's neither fitting to how the CC is described in BT universe, nor is it something unique.

Sorry, but if IS CW ends up to be requiring no strategic piloting skill, but just clicking together the right equipment that works on its own, it'll be a joke - and not even a good one. Would be taking out the "thinking" of the formerly claimed "thinking mans shooter" even more as already has happened (and a good reason for me to let go the last hopes for MWO become something worth the waiting for a fan of BT universe). What is bad about things like multiple targeting, preference designation, HUD-map etc. for the CC? "Too complicated", because it also requires some own brain or what? Can't believe that the majority of the people want an "R-Type on feet"-game.

[Cimarb]

ECM and other Information Warfare items should all be much more active, instead of the almost completely passive systems they currently are.

[wanderer]

Nihtgenga, on 30 June 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

So you want the CC be just like a fusion of ECM (counter-mode only) and BAP with for-free C3-Computer AoE-effect = Largely a compilation of existing stuff in one item. That's neither fitting to how the CC is described in BT universe, nor is it something unique.

The CC in-universe gives you an initiative bonus. If being able to clear out the ECM and see things better and faster isn't an initiative bonus in MWO, what is?

[MasterBLB]

Will these targeting computers work with missiles?

[Magos Titanicus]

Paul Inouye, on 07 June 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

NOTE: Once again, all values are placeholders.

Command Console

Weight: 3 tons.

Slots: 1 slot.

Zoom distance: [+5.25]%

Sensor range: [+6.0]%

Time to gather target info: [-20.5]%

[/spoiler]

Command Console definitly needs a huge buff, otherwise i cannot see one sane reason for taking that 3 tons item with me. My Suggestion is to make it at least equal to a MKIII targeting computer.

Edited by Magos Titanicus, 01 July 2014 - 04:39 AM.

[Navid A1]

As it has been mentioned before, the CC needs to have team buffs like ecm immune bubble, target info gather buff bubble and etc...


I was thinking that one other nice feature can be the ability to recieve input data from every friendly mech radar. It means that a mech with a CC can take full advantage of a light scout's radar even if the scout is not using the famous "R" key.

currently, the team can see only the enemy unit which the scout has a lock on (one mech). I think the CC should enable its user to see (and be able to lock on) every other enemy unit which are being picked up by friendly radars (both empty and filled red triangles).

This way the CC user can also be aware of the enemy units main position and numbers without the scout being required to mash the "R" key a billion times.

Edited by Navid A1, 01 July 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[Nihtgenga]

Cimarb, on 30 June 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

ECM and other Information Warfare items should all be much more active, instead of the almost completely passive systems they currently are.

/signed.

wanderer, on 30 June 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

The CC in-universe gives you an initiative bonus. If being able to clear out the ECM and see things better and faster isn't an initiative bonus in MWO, what is?

First: You're talking TT rules only. BT describes CC to be a second cockpit, allowing the second pilot either to perform additional command tasks while not piloting (= "initiative" in TT), or to take over piloting, when the primary cockpit is destroyed/pilot killed (= higher structural value to be overcome until mech is destroyed by headshot). ECM efficiency or weaponry buffs do NOT fit this description at all, because they are not related to commanding (you can order your ECM to work better, but that sensors won't get any better from that...) and neither do fixed AoE buffs fit very well (no different commands can be issued, kiddy-feature with no brain or skill required). Additional command tasks would be things like setting priority targets, waypoints, etc.. Maybe this could also be translated in an a bit extended way into allowing more than one target to be locked in at a time, having a battlemap and commando functionality without need of switching to the console via "b" button or similar, but that's about it, there's no logic for weapon range buffs or things like that.

Since that item is called "Command Console" and also described as being a second cockpit input console, i think it should be featured like that, and not just an item with wildly thrown-together boni. To take an example of the principle: You'd not be happy in adding COF on lasers, just because people complain their high efficiency in being pinpoint, and the COF "solves" somehow the issue, or am I wrong?

Being finally able to better command a lance than now and having higher structural HP on the mech head for sure is a noticeable advantage, which is well worth some tonnage (guess you all have suffered matches, where there was no cooperation or big confusion, which usually results in a loss). So why not try to realize the balancing with priority on such features, and leaving ECM and BAP features to ECM and BAP?

Navid A1, on 01 July 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

I was thinking that one other nice feature can be the ability to recieve input data from every friendly mech radar.

Target data relaying is the feature of the C3-Computer system, which is a separate item. I'd not put this into CC, because then C3 would be largely superflous.

[Gabbatek]

Navid A1, on 01 July 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

I was thinking that one other nice feature can be the ability to recieve input data from every friendly mech radar. It means that a mech with a CC can take full advantage of a light scout's radar even if the scout is not using the famous "R" key.

currently, the team can see only the enemy unit which the scout has a lock on (one mech). I think the CC should enable its user to see (and be able to lock on) every other enemy unit which are being picked up by friendly radars (both empty and filled red triangles).

This way the CC user can also be aware of the enemy units main position and numbers without the scout being required to mash the "R" key a billion times.

totally agree

and this would give a big advantage back to i.s lrms against the clan version

Edited by Gabbatek, 02 July 2014 - 10:21 AM.