458 replies to this topic

[DarkonFullPower]

So in other words, the Boomphract mech no longer exists?



RIP.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

i feel ... that .. every one is forgetting that the clans are more advanced when it came to combat and weapons then the IS was, their weakness was their ROE.

Also on a side note .... how does every other package get a cool emblem and clans dont

Edited by Rabbit Blacksun, 08 June 2014 - 02:26 PM.

[CtrlAltWheee]

Ryoken, on 08 June 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

Limiting Gauss Rifle Charge to 2 max: good and reasonable to avoid 45/60 Pinpoint

C-ER-PPC getting splash damage: good - finally introducing splash to PPC, but I kind of dislike the 2.5 damage points getting lost when only 1 adjacent location is available.

C-UAC and C-LBX(slug) becoming burst fire weapons: good - finally also introducing a correct implementation of autocannons that also takes away the pinpoint damage.

C-LRM minimum range: bad it could not come in time - but we can wait those 2 weeks

But I got 4 concerns:

1) ER-PPCs both Clan and IS need some help as they are nearly unusable with 1.4DHS. As mentioned before we allready got a situation with IS-ER-PPCs, which are way to hot to field more than one, even if you stuff your mech with DHS. So ER-PPC heat/1.4DHS need some tuning!

2) PPC splash damage should not get lost but distributed equally to the available adjecent locations except head.
1 adjecent location = 5 splash transfer
2 adjecent locations = 2x 2.5 splash transfer
3 adjecent locations = 3x 1.7 splash transfer
and so on...

3) Splash damage should be implemented for all PPC weapons in the future.

4) Burst fire AND recoil should be implemented for all AC weapons in the future.

Basically this. Thank you, Ryoken.

Glad the mechanics for splash and burst fire are in game. Impossible to balance IS vs Clan without the full release. Expect laughter and chaos and bitching. Enjoy the first few weeks or months after June 17 for what they are. Then see if burst fire is applied to IS autocannons. Net win.

[ScarecrowES]

Rabbit Blacksun, on 08 June 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

i feel ... that .. every one is forgetting that the clans are more advanced when it came to combat and weapons then the IS was, their weakness was their ROE.

Does that mean if I stay a Clanner, I will only get matched up with good, intelligent players who will use group tactics to be on my team? Let's not rely on PGI to implement a decent skill tracking system and intelligent matchmaking to balance out clan tech.

[focuspark]

Wait... if Slug LBX- AC stream rounds, just like Ultra ACs... how are they different? Clan Ultra don't jam, so... I really don't get it.

[focuspark]

Ryoken, on 08 June 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

Limiting Gauss Rifle Charge to 2 max: good and reasonable to avoid 45/60 Pinpoint

C-ER-PPC getting splash damage: good - finally introducing splash to PPC, but I kind of dislike the 2.5 damage points getting lost when only 1 adjacent location is available.

C-UAC and C-LBX(slug) becoming burst fire weapons: good - finally also introducing a correct implementation of autocannons that also takes away the pinpoint damage.

C-LRM minimum range: bad it could not come in time - but we can wait those 2 weeks

But I got 4 concerns:

1) ER-PPCs both Clan and IS need some help as they are nearly unusable with 1.4DHS. As mentioned before we allready got a situation with IS-ER-PPCs, which are way to hot to field more than one, even if you stuff your mech with DHS. So ER-PPC heat/1.4DHS need some tuning!

2) PPC splash damage should not get lost but distributed equally to the available adjecent locations except head.
1 adjecent location = 5 splash transfer
2 adjecent locations = 2x 2.5 splash transfer
3 adjecent locations = 3x 1.7 splash transfer
and so on...

3) Splash damage should be implemented for all PPC weapons in the future.

4) Burst fire AND recoil should be implemented for all AC weapons in the future.

Quoted for truth.

Now, how splash damage should always be calculated:

1. calculate hit location
2. calculate a sphere of give 'splash size' around location
3. calculate all locations within the sphere
4. divide the damage up into parts base on dmg = locations_inside_sphere + 1
5. apply 2 parts damage to the location hit, and 1 part to all other locations within the sphere

Now, go back and apply this to all kinds of PPCs, missiles, and autocannons (to simulate the stream of projectiles they should have always had).

[Natasha Radick]

So if standard heat sinks dissipate 1 heat per second? And DOUBLE, yes DOUBLE heat sinks dissipate 1.4 heat per second. Why are they called DOUBLE heat sinks? Color me blonde but that last time I checked, DOUBLE of 1 means 2. You know, 1+1=2? Right? I mean, I know I'm blonde but still. Even I can figure that one. The heat on the Clan ER PCC I feel is too high, especially since not all the damage is going directly to one spot even though it should. So if that's the case, keep your mechanic but give me true DOUBLE heat sinks that dissipate 2 heat per second, especially since my Stormcrow and Nova are already superior to every IS mech that currently is in game. So why should I be reduced to using inferior IS DOUBLE heat sinks at 1.4 when they aren't even double and the Nova looks like it's going to run super ridiculously hot? That doesn't add up or make sense.

Give me true clan double heat sinks that dissipate 2 heat per second and give the IS true double heat sinks that dissipate 2 heat per second.

[ScarecrowES]

Honestly, PGI really needs to release a video... like... yesterday... actually showing all this stuff in action. Let's see it all in motion... custom omnimechs, ACs firing, lasers and PPCs. On paper, with what we know now, it all sounds terrible. But how can we really know until we see it all together in action? Until then we're just speculating.

But given what we've been hearing... especially today... I think they owe it to the folks who have already plopped money down on these things, and those who are on the fence about pre-ordering, to show us whether or not this content is going to be worth our investment or we need to put in a request for a refund.

[Tezcatli]

I am excited to see the turmoil the Clan mechs will bring. :3

[Koniving]

Ultimatum X, on 07 June 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

Clan ER PPC can not be 15 heat to fire then, or not only will they be as unusable as IS ER PPCs - the clan will basically have no viable PPC version they can use.

So let me get this straight.
Inner Sphere ER PPCs have 1 ton more weight, 1 slot more, less range, deal 10 damage and it's kinda okay for them to be 15 heat.
But a Clan ER PPC... with its 1 less ton, 1 less slot, MORE RANGE, deals 10 damage on point with the other 5 being spread...
and it's not okay for them to be 15 heat?
Your logic seems unfounded.

Btw, with the recent AC nerf, the Inner Sphere ER PPC outclasses everything but the AC/2 and the Gauss Rifle in range. And honestly near max range you still get more damage out of the ER PPC than the AC/2.

People aren't supposed to be able to fire two ER PPCs at once anyway with the way MWO has them heat spiking instead of charge up (gradual heat rises; power it, the heat starts to rise and whoosh the rest of the heat spikes sometime later). It'd risk shutdowns and ammunition explosions just by firing 2 PPCs at once (66.67% threshold, 20 heat. -4 movement, -3 gunnery, -2 AC, level 2 shutdown risk, 1 to 5% risk of ammunition explosion).

With no changes to how DHS work in MWO, Inner Sphere mechs are limited to 88.56 threshold as a top before applying map heat (as opposed to 30). That's sporting 1 ER PPC on a 80 ton mech with 27 DHS. Certain Clan mechs at stock configs are reaching over 100 threshold just by putting their heatsink counts into the MWO heat simulator. o.O; And that's sporting a LOT more firepower.

I seriously don't believe Clan mechs will have a problem with ER PPCs. Besides, with it being their second longest range weapon, I don't think anyone will want their heat lowered either. They will just fire two at a time, or chain fire them like they should.

Edited by Koniving, 08 June 2014 - 02:57 PM.

[Fastwind]

If you nerf the pinpoint dmg out of all the clan mechs you HAVE TO DO THE SAME TO ALL THE IS MECHS.
Noone gets high longrange pinpoint dmg or everyone gets it.
Thats balance

[Mcgral18]

Natasha Radick, on 08 June 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

So if standard heat sinks dissipate 1 heat per second? And DOUBLE, yes DOUBLE heat sinks dissipate 1.4 heat per second. Why are they called DOUBLE heat sinks? Color me blonde but that last time I checked, DOUBLE of 1 means 2. You know, 1+1=2? Right? I mean, I know I'm blonde but still. Even I can figure that one. The heat on the Clan ER PCC I feel is too high, especially since not all the damage is going directly to one spot even though it should. So if that's the case, keep your mechanic but give me true DOUBLE heat sinks that dissipate 2 heat per second, especially since my Stormcrow and Nova are already superior to every IS mech that currently is in game. So why should I be reduced to using inferior IS DOUBLE heat sinks at 1.4 when they aren't even double and the Nova looks like it's going to run super ridiculously hot? That doesn't add up or make sense.

Give me true clan double heat sinks that dissipate 2 heat per second and give the IS true double heat sinks that dissipate 2 heat per second.

1 and 1.4 heat per 10 seconds.

The 10 Engine DHS are at full 0.2 heat per second.


As for the Nova's heat...let's calculate with 20 DHS. Base capacity of 30, plus the 20 capacity from the 10 engine heatsinks gives us 50+(10*1.4)=64 heat capacity on a basic mech. 20% elite bonus brings us to 76.8 capacity with 20 DHS.

Heat dissipation is 2H/s+1.4H/s which brings us to 3.4 on a basic mech. 15% elite bonus brings us to 3.91H/s. Just slightly below TT efficiency.

[Fastwind]

Koniving, on 08 June 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

So let me get this straight.
Inner Sphere ER PPCs have 1 ton more weight, 1 slot more, less range, deal 10 damage and it's kinda okay for them to be 15 heat.
But a Clan ER PPC... with its 1 less ton, 1 less slot, MORE RANGE, deals 10 damage on point with the other 5 being spread...
and it's not okay for them to be 15 heat?
Your logic seems unfounded.

You don't get it?
No one uses more than 1(ONE) ERPPC,the rest is usually a PPC (10dmg,only 10 heat)
As far as i understand the Clans don't have PPC's
So no 20+ (2 PPC'S+something else) pinpoint dmg without constant overheating for the clans,but still for the IS
Ergo IS wins
FAIL BALANCE

[Natasha Radick]

Mcgral18, on 08 June 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

1 and 1.4 heat per 10 seconds.

The 10 Engine DHS are at full 0.2 heat per second.


As for the Nova's heat...let's calculate with 20 DHS. Base capacity of 30, plus the 20 capacity from the 10 engine heatsinks gives us 50+(10*1.4)=64 heat capacity on a basic mech. 20% elite bonus brings us to 76.8 capacity with 20 DHS.

Heat dissipation is 2H/s+1.4H/s which brings us to 3.4 on a basic mech. 15% elite bonus brings us to 3.91H/s. Just slightly below TT efficiency.

Thank you for the breakdown. I was trying to look it up but all I have is the in game description. Either way, meh.

[Fastwind]

Mcgral18, on 08 June 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

1 and 1.4 heat per 10 seconds.

The 10 Engine DHS are at full 0.2 heat per second.


As for the Nova's heat...let's calculate with 20 DHS. Base capacity of 30, plus the 20 capacity from the 10 engine heatsinks gives us 50+(10*1.4)=64 heat capacity on a basic mech. 20% elite bonus brings us to 76.8 capacity with 20 DHS.

Heat dissipation is 2H/s+1.4H/s which brings us to 3.4 on a basic mech. 15% elite bonus brings us to 3.91H/s. Just slightly below TT efficiency.

As i understand it the 20 DHS on the Nova it's INCLUDING the 10DHS in the engine
Like on your IS mech you have 19DHS it's 10 in the engine and 9 outside the engine or in its additional engine heatsink slots
Correct me if i'm wrong

[ScarecrowES]

Koniving, on 08 June 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

So let me get this straight.
Inner Sphere ER PPCs have 1 ton more weight, 1 slot more, less range, deal 10 damage and it's kinda okay for them to be 15 heat.
But a Clan ER PPC... with its 1 less ton, 1 less slot, MORE RANGE, deals 10 damage on point with the other 5 being spread...
and it's not okay for them to be 15 heat?
Your logic seems unfounded.

I can't say anyone actually approves of the amount of heat the IS ERPPC puts out. There's a reason virtually noone uses it, and even fewer use more than one. Purely for the amount of heat the IS ERPPC puts out, it's mostly a joke weapon. Adding a little damage and a teensy bit more range doesn't make up for the enormous amount of heat. It only makes it POTENTIALLY justifiable. Of course, the clan ERPPC isn't getting it's full range OR damage, and we have no idea if the heat will be increased for balancing purposes. As such, we can say it's currently no less and no more of a joke than the IS ERPPC... but unlike the IS, the clans don't have an obviously superior alternative in a standard PPC.

In fact, the current build suggests that the clans aren't getting any real point damage weapons of note other than, say, the gauss rifle.

[Mcgral18]

Fastwind, on 08 June 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

As i understand it the 20 DHS on the Nova it's INCLUDING the 10DHS in the engine
Like on your IS mech you have 19DHS it's 10 in the engine and 9 outside the engine or in its additional engine heatsink slots
Correct me if i'm wrong

You're correct, the base 50 cap includes the 10 engine heatsinks.

And I imagine the 4 hardwired heatsinks will be counted as external, and counted with the extra 6 external heatsinks for a toal of 10 1.4 cap heatsinks.

Of course, this is all assuming the clans get the same 1.4 external heatsinks, and not 2.0 because of their hot as heck weapons.

[Koniving]

ScarecrowES, on 08 June 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

Of course, the clan ERPPC isn't getting it's full range OR damage,....

Clan ER PPC max range in lore.
690 meters (and that's with the highest chance of missing).
(Unlike the ACs, this was a limitation with the weapon. ACs, ultras, etc., the range was due to both the strong recoil involved with firing tank-sized projectiles rapidly along with the inaccuracy of movement).

Clan ER PPC max range in MWO
1,620 meters or greater (based on Inner Sphere's Clan ER PPC max range) >.>

Standard PPC in MWO
1,080 meters.

Edited by Koniving, 08 June 2014 - 03:28 PM.

[darkkterror]

Natasha Radick, on 08 June 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

So if standard heat sinks dissipate 1 heat per second? And DOUBLE, yes DOUBLE heat sinks dissipate 1.4 heat per second. Why are they called DOUBLE heat sinks?

Because they're double the size (at least for Clans)

[Natasha Radick]

darkkterror, on 08 June 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

Because they're double the size (at least for Clans)

Clan Double Heat Sinks are 1 ton and 2 slots.