684 replies to this topic

[Biaxialrain]

Can we save the Clan LRMs are weaker than IS LRMs bullshit?

The amount of cockpit shake and sight obscuring explosions are way too much, that is what makes them worse than IS LRMs.

Also, it's a continuous string of LRMs that cause non stop cockpit shake and sight obstruction not one lump sum.

[krash27]

Biaxialrain, on 16 July 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

Can we save the Clan LRMs are weaker than IS LRMs bullshit?

The amount of cockpit shake and sight obscuring explosions are way too much, that is what makes them worse than IS LRMs.

Also, it's a continuous string of LRMs that cause non stop cockpit shake and sight obstruction not one lump sum.

Move your d@mn mech and they wont all hit your cockpit. My gawd!

[Oni Ralas]

Hey OP:

Go **** yourself and every other LRM whiners.

-The guy that constantly kills you with LRMs for the last 2 years.

[Lyoto Machida]

Oni Ralas, on 16 July 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Hey OP:

Go **** yourself and every other LRM whiners.

-The guy that constantly kills you with LRMs for the last 2 years.

Seriously...it's a damn learn to play issue.

[JohnnyWayne]

Lyoto Machida, on 16 July 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Seriously...it's a damn learn to play issue.

Yeah help them to learn to play. LRM - users need help. Seriously, teach them how to play the game properly.

Edit: Just equipped a summoner with LRMs. Probably switch to SRMs anyways... xD

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 16 July 2014 - 04:06 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

JohnnyWayne, on 16 July 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

Yeah help them to learn to play. LRM - users need help. Seriously, teach them how to play the game properly.

Edit: Just equipped a summoner with LRMs. Probably switch to SRMs anyways... xD

Don't hate because a no-skill noob weapon touched you in a bad place.

[wanderer]

I've always said that LRMs are equipped with noob-seeker warheads.

Not that you can't kill good players with missiles, but against bad players, you don't have to really make much effort happen. I seriously think half the LURMRAGE comes from people realizing they're getting repeatedly murdered by lower-tier weapons, which means the illusion that they're good at MWO dissolves in the acid rain.

[Lynx7725]

wanderer, on 16 July 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

I seriously think half the LURMRAGE comes from people realizing they're getting repeatedly murdered by lower-tier weapons, which means the illusion that they're good at MWO dissolves in the acid rain.

Question: A player gets killed by what he calls a no-skill weapon. What skill level does that imply he has?

Solo and Group queues ain't Solaris dueling. This is at least Solaris team battle, or some approximation of Inner Sphere military action. That's the number 2 mental hurdle most people need to clear, but a lot simply don't make it.

[Aresye]

wanderer, on 16 July 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

I've always said that LRMs are equipped with noob-seeker warheads.

Not that you can't kill good players with missiles, but against bad players, you don't have to really make much effort happen. I seriously think half the LURMRAGE comes from people realizing they're getting repeatedly murdered by lower-tier weapons, which means the illusion that they're good at MWO dissolves in the acid rain.

Not entirely, because ever since the radar deprivation module came out, I've had zero issues with LRMs. If I end up caught in the open, it's my own fault. If I don't stay with the ECM mech, it's my own fault. If I get narced or tagged, it's my own fault.

Getting hit by 60-80 LRMs while behind cover after firing a single shot around the corner, and some dude with advanced target decay got the red dorito for a split second for him and his buddies? That's a different story.

How exactly would it be considered that I'm playing the game wrong when I stick close to cover and don't venture out into the open? Am I be penalized by some magical ability for the missiles to still home on me without anybody or anything having LOS?

What exactly constitutes the "open?" I'd always assume that the open meant the open areas of a map, but according to pro-LRM logic here: Any missiles fired at you = open. So half my torso barely peaks around the corner for a split second and 3 LRM boats fire at me. Is that me being in the open? Had I made some grievous tactical error by deciding to peek around the corner and look for where their team is?

I'm not against LRMs...at all. I just think the whole, "missile homing despite no LOS," bs was simply...bs, and the common phrase of, "Don't be in the open," came off as a little bit insulting whenever it was said. I mean, what "should" I have done? Not peeked around a corner? Sheesh. According to the LRM fans I should never, ever show myself to them. I should just hide behind a rock and never peek out for the entirety of a match.

Radar dep was a godsend to the game, because now I'm legitimately doing something stupid when I get hit by them, and it's less frustrating knowing that.

It also tells me that you either used NARC, a good spotter, or UAV to take me out, which actually makes your claims of, "LRMs require a lot of skill," actually have merit. For everybody who rages about how radar dep ruined the game for missiles, all that means is your entire success with missiles relied SOLELY on target decay to AVOID having to use teammates and/or other mechanics to hit mechs. Now that your precious (and BS) mechanic has been taken away, now you actually have to USE your team. Go figure.

[Lynx7725]

Here's a story.

Last night, I was on Tourmaline, in a Solo Queue Skirmish game. Timber Wolf C pods, Gauss and ER-PPC (so not a poptart). Started high side, went to the usual ridge line to do long range fire support. Only had an Atlas with me, I don't think an ECM model because the enemy locked LRM on me fine.

Plinked away and got their attention, and oh my, the LRM shower was impressive -- at least 3 or 4 missile capable enemies. And largely wasted. Was running Radar Derp, and backing into cover and stepping sideways meant dumb missile shower that I could avoid. Swapped positions regularly and kept plinking, but I always kept cover and concealment between me and known enemy positions. Kept getting showered. Last major shower, they somehow managed to get a hard lock on me, and I lost a side torso.

And guess what? I bought time for my team to wake up their idea and roll forward into their positions while they were busy trying to kill two mechs in hard cover, with LRMs primarily. LRMs are a team-based weapon. I cannot expect to defeat a team-based weapon with solo tactics. I can mitigate and deny some of the damage, but team-based weapons should be defeated by team-based tactics. In this case, I tied up way more enemy mechs than my own tonnage warranted, and gave my team enough time, distraction and cover to advance over open ground to stomp the enemy LRM boats.

Really, people should stop thinking that LRMs can be defeated in a solo approach. A LRM boat team by definition works best when in cooperative teams. Teamwork is OP -- fight teamwork with teamwork. Mass AMS. ECM. Team fire and maneuver. These things are possible even in Solo Queues.

[Biaxialrain]

Clan LRMs, now with no minimum range, what more can they give you for easy mode?

Edited by Biaxialrain, 16 July 2014 - 07:42 PM.

[Lynx7725]

Aresye, on 16 July 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

What exactly constitutes the "open?" I'd always assume that the open meant the open areas of a map, but according to pro-LRM logic here: Any missiles fired at you = open. So half my torso barely peaks around the corner for a split second and 3 LRM boats fire at me. Is that me being in the open? Had I made some grievous tactical error by deciding to peek around the corner and look for where their team is?

Functionally? Yes. It was a mistake, but it was a mistake that needs to be made. The team critically needs to know where the enemy is. This is why light scouts, particularly with ECM, is crucial -- but too many lights prefer to play Sniper Elite or brawl builds. Mediums and Heavies can scout in a pinch, but their larger sizes and slower speed makes them not as ideal for the job.

Here's a couple of things to consider. Cover is not all encompassing. Cover depends on the direction that an attack comes from. Some people assume an LRM attack would come from where an enemy spotter is -- that is wrong. That is actually a BAD application of LRM team tactics, LRM attacks should not come from the spotter's direction if possible.

So when people put themselves into cover, they may be in cover... from one direction. Flanking and enfilade fire will negate that cover, along with LRM's arc, especially fired from a distance. This is normal. It's what indirect fire is supposed to do, negate cover. This is to support other team tactics, including advances of team brawlers and assaulters.

The other thing is, how many actually observe how the targeting system behaves? The first key thing to note is that an enemy target would not be tagged if it's not in your front cone, and there must be more than a certain percentage of the mech that is clearly visible. It is thus possible to sneak a peek around a corner and not be targeted. Especially if you already know the enemy disposition and know their facing -- use the minimap arrowheads to know where their feet is pointed (some risks here: their torso might be pointed at you...)

LRM is not defeated through the intelligent use of cover. LRM is defeated through teamwork and the intelligent use of concealment. LRM boats by definition leaves an easily back-plotted trail that broadcast their positions. Knowing how to use concealment to approach LRM boats is key to defeating them.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Just LOL. LRM just work in PUK games where they have time to do damage.
We had Yesterday some matches. Equal skilled Teams.
Pinpointer vs LRM with Narc. LRM lost. The Pinpointer didn t need to focus. The LRM tried...but with that lock on time? No Chance!
Pinpointer vs brawler.......Pinpointer lost easy. LRM/Brawler had been played by the same Team. The pinpointer Meta jumpsniper stayed in their mechs. So what are you talking about?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

There ARE issues with LRM's.

However, those issues are not overly glairing sans for the instances in River City where the LRM's seem to ignore cover taken and hit you anyway.

They do require some amount of skill.

But I find it funny really. There's all this talk about "oh, there must be skill in every weapon ever!" So...it takes skill to use medium lasers and rake damage back and forth across a mech to do damage? Because I don't hear people calling lasers "no skill" weapons, even though if you even look past a mech while firing you'll still do atleast a point of damage to the enemy if you're within range of your lasers.

I think the complaint comes from people who don't run varried loadouts. They have 1 range brackett of weapons, and are unable to get within the range of their weaponry [probably brawling weapons primarily] to fight back against this precieved threat of the LRM boat, that's wrecking them at distance because they're outranging them.

So what do you people that are whining want in an LRM nerf? Damage reduction will make LRM's useless again[we've been there.] And they are already the slowest "Ballistic" esque weapon in the game. So what do you want from them?

Personally I'd like to see increased "spread" when firing at targets that you're not actively looking at. [IE Indirect fire should have a larger spread.] If that Indirect fire is TAG/NARC assisted, then they should have the normal spread. I think that would go a LONG way to fixing many of the issues that fall with LRM's as they currently work. but that's about it.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Aresye, on 16 July 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

Not entirely, because ever since the radar deprivation module came out, I've had zero issues with LRMs. If I end up caught in the open, it's my own fault. If I don't stay with the ECM mech, it's my own fault. If I get narced or tagged, it's my own fault.

Getting hit by 60-80 LRMs while behind cover after firing a single shot around the corner, and some dude with advanced target decay got the red dorito for a split second for him and his buddies? That's a different story.

How exactly would it be considered that I'm playing the game wrong when I stick close to cover and don't venture out into the open? Am I be penalized by some magical ability for the missiles to still home on me without anybody or anything having LOS?

What exactly constitutes the "open?" I'd always assume that the open meant the open areas of a map, but according to pro-LRM logic here: Any missiles fired at you = open. So half my torso barely peaks around the corner for a split second and 3 LRM boats fire at me. Is that me being in the open? Had I made some grievous tactical error by deciding to peek around the corner and look for where their team is?

I'm not against LRMs...at all. I just think the whole, "missile homing despite no LOS," bs was simply...bs, and the common phrase of, "Don't be in the open," came off as a little bit insulting whenever it was said. I mean, what "should" I have done? Not peeked around a corner? Sheesh. According to the LRM fans I should never, ever show myself to them. I should just hide behind a rock and never peek out for the entirety of a match.

Radar dep was a godsend to the game, because now I'm legitimately doing something stupid when I get hit by them, and it's less frustrating knowing that.

It also tells me that you either used NARC, a good spotter, or UAV to take me out, which actually makes your claims of, "LRMs require a lot of skill," actually have merit. For everybody who rages about how radar dep ruined the game for missiles, all that means is your entire success with missiles relied SOLELY on target decay to AVOID having to use teammates and/or other mechanics to hit mechs. Now that your precious (and BS) mechanic has been taken away, now you actually have to USE your team. Go figure.

You will never convince these colossally thick-headed people with any kind of logic. They have gone far past that point in their frenzied defense of their limited view on the issue. Apparently they want this game to be a constant cover hump in PUG games because it's difficult to rally a push or coordinate attacks when you are lucky to have 2 or 3 people that actually say something in a game. They also apparently want to encourage the death-ball strategy because leaving the safety of your team's ECM is a god awful tactical mistake for any and all reasons and only ECM lights should be allowed to do the function of a light well.
I'm done with this waste of time and effort trying to convince those that apparently know all and see all.

[Lynx7725]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 16 July 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

You will never convince these colossally thick-headed people with any kind of logic.

Oh the irony.

[Thunder Child]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 16 July 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

You will never convince these colossally thick-headed people with any kind of logic. They have gone far past that point in their frenzied defense of their limited view on the issue. Apparently they want this game to be a constant cover hump in PUG games because it's difficult to rally a push or coordinate attacks when you are lucky to have 2 or 3 people that actually say something in a game. They also apparently want to encourage the death-ball strategy because leaving the safety of your team's ECM is a god awful tactical mistake for any and all reasons and only ECM lights should be allowed to do the function of a light well.
I'm done with this waste of time and effort trying to convince those that apparently know all and see all.

You just summarized the pinpoint FLD "sniper" issue perfectly. Oh, wait, you were talking about LRMs, right?
The only real issue with LRMs is that the Impulse level is currently too high to allow a person to accurately return fire. They could also maybe do with an increased spread when fired indirectly. Other than that, they are the most balanced they have ever been. They can still allow you to do damage (spread all over the enemy, admittedly, instead of targeting a damaged component) unlike when they were down at the 0.8 damage level, but they are not the Godkiller weapons they were during Artemis Implementation, or the Splash Bug.
I am not a high Tier player, but I know that ECM, Radar Dep, and AMS are not needed on any chassis that can go over 60kph, to survive LRMs. It just takes a little bit of intelligent play during the thick of battle.
FYI, I love enemy LRM boats. Most of them don't carry point defence weaponry of any worth, so my Mediums can sneak up behind them and gut them. Just watch out for MetaCats. Those things are nasty.

[Bhael Fire]

People that complain about weapon balance NEED TO BE NERFED.

NOW.

They are ruining the game.

[Thunder Child]

Actually.... I just thought about it. LRMS need to be nerfed now. My 6 UAC5 Direwolf demands it. Seriously, it's the only mech that has trouble with the damned things.

[Bhael Fire]

NERF 'EM ALL.

LET PAUL SORT THEM OUT!!!!!!!

NERF.