684 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

krash27, on 20 July 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

Translation = I want to mindlessly charge at the enemy without having to think what so ever.

I play my A1 a lot and it is far from OP friend.

A1 isn't so hot, mainly because a direct fire heavy is a better call.

A LRM 40 Sctormcrow....holy crap its pretty awesome, fast, has space for its own NARC, and doesn't eat a heavy slot. I imagine a Treb can do nearly the same plus JJs, but I havent gotten mine out in forever.

[Kjudoon]

krash27, on 20 July 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

Translation = I want to mindlessly charge at the enemy without having to think what so ever.

I play my A1 a lot and it is far from OP friend.

It's the same mentality that says long range direct fire is OP. they want to charge open ground and get into a knife fight with a sniper because they can't think strategically and want to prevent superior tactics from stopping them. Same reason LRMs are nerfed. It's the same reason why someone doesn't hunt a Rhino with a sword but uses a rifle instead. A whole lot safer and smarter.

Edited by Kjudoon, 20 July 2014 - 02:32 PM.

[krash27]

Yokaiko, on 20 July 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

A1 isn't so hot, mainly because a direct fire heavy is a better call.

A LRM 40 Sctormcrow....holy crap its pretty awesome, fast, has space for its own NARC, and doesn't eat a heavy slot. I imagine a Treb can do nearly the same plus JJs, but I havent gotten mine out in forever.

For laying down suppressive LRM fire, I like the A1 and I do quite well with it. You just have to find the sweet spot among your team unless they all decide to scatter, in which case you are borked no matter what you are in. If I have close in support I can rain holy terror down on the enemy or keep them pinned in so the brawlers can move in and do their thing. End of game score doesn't allways reflect how well I did in my LRM boat.

But that's OK if they do nerf LRM's because people are crying OP. I will just switch back to the PPC meta sniper game. I am sure the same people bitching about LRM's are the ones that ***** about PPC meta as well.

Edited by krash27, 20 July 2014 - 02:39 PM.

[Wolfways]

Kjudoon, on 20 July 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

It's the same mentality that says long range direct fire is OP. they want to charge open ground and get into a knife fight with a sniper because they can't think strategically and want to prevent superior tactics from stopping them. Same reason LRMs are nerfed. It's the same reason why someone doesn't hunt a Rhino with a sword but uses a rifle instead. A whole lot safer and smarter.

Seen this happen with snipers in the BF games. So much whining that they got nerf after nerf...

[Clownwarlord]

Besides good players lrm boaters have inflated stats. Its true but even then they don't need to be nerfed because once I get done mastering I am going to go lrm boating to re boost my stats again. So no nerfing until after I stat pad.

[Mavairo]

ShinVector, on 20 July 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Lol.. You are also whining like as if LRMs are weaker than Flamers. Trying to bring you back to reality with some videos as proof they can really good when used properly... Go ahead and deny reality...

I hope the Videos show other peeps how LRM 'should be' used. In fact I see a WHOLE lot more narc deployment nowadays which evidence in the videos.

1. NARC people.. Aim for big fat slow juice targets with the highest damage potential.
2. Even higher priority target. ECM mechs.
3. Let your buddies dump their LRMs on these guys ASAP before they can retaliate.

Get the numbers advantage early for the TEAM.. Usually it is a sure win with the enemy team traumatised by LRM RAIN.

*The dude misses the point that running in the the tourny allows you see what are the build people in the leader board brought into the tourny...... Nothing to do with the ranking itself.

Now that I've watched the videos...
Proof against people that stand out in the open and Derp it up sure. Now, redo your little experiment with GR+PPCs and watch them die even faster.

LRMs are about as useful as Flamers in the modern MWO battlefield above the kinds of people that you faced in this series of vids.
You act as if I've never heard of Narc or Tag. Those are mandatory just to get damage results above the Scrub Tiers Period. Even with their supplemental help, LRMs are Weaker than direct fire weaponry.

Also, in beerwarrior at least? As long as you fell within tonnage limits you were good to go. Hell, PPCs were the banned weapon and guess what? LRMs were STILL not taken by ANY of the teams. So far in RHOD? Same deal. Let's be honest here, we ALL know what weapons people take to tournament play, and LRMs aren't on the roster above the Suck Players with delusions of grandeur.

The only people that get 'traumatized' are people that Suck. Period. If you take one breath think about where you are and go from there, the rain isn't even at all scary. You must have thought the quad AC2 Jager was OP and competitive too for it's "psychological warfare!" value.

The only thing your video does is confirm what the rest of us (those of us with more than two functioning brain cells) have been telling you lot all along about LRMs. That if you act like a total ****** you'll die to them. Congrats, for proving my point for me.

Edited by Mavairo, 20 July 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

You act as if I've never heard of Narc or Tag. Those are mandatory just to get damage results above the Scrub Tiers Period. Even with their supplemental help, LRMs are Weaker than direct fire weaponry.

Somewhere Victor Morson exploded with glee.

Quote

The only people that get 'traumatized' are people that Suck. Period. If you take one breath think about where you are and go from there, the rain isn't even at all scary. You must have thought the quad AC2 Jager was OP and competitive too for it's "psychological warfare!" value.

Well, no. Even good players get unlucky at times, or get caught with their pants down to a superior move. That said, you usually don't live long enough to survive alpha strikes by boomjagers, multiPPC blasts and the like. The AC2/5 jackhammers do have terrifying psychological effects even compared to the hammering of LRM5s, plus they are far more consistant which is why they are used on the high levels of play and not the LRMs. No AMS to counter damage, no ECM to stop their targetting. They're faster, and more destructive ton for ton.

And yet, we do not see literally hundreds of threads demanding they be nerfed endlessly. Maybe a dozen or two from brawltards that want to abolish cover and make every weapon the same with a range of 50 meters so they can button mash.

[Zolaz]

Noob town complains about things in noob town. That is why we have this LRM thread.

[Johnny Reb]

krash27, on 20 July 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

Translation = I want to mindlessly charge at the enemy without having to think what so ever.

I play my A1 a lot and it is far from OP friend.

I would go as far as say the A1 is a liability now that you could have a Timber wolf or almost any other heavy, minus a Dragon, and be a better asset to the team. Personally, I find the Kintro-18 far superior to the A1, just wish the kint had JJ. Kintro can run a mean 5 srm6 build or 5 lrm5 build with tag and backup wep( in my lrm build an erppc). However, the A1 can't run tag or have a backup other than streaks.

[Johnny Reb]

clownwarlord, on 20 July 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Besides good players lrm boaters have inflated stats. Its true but even then they don't need to be nerfed because once I get done mastering I am going to go lrm boating to re boost my stats again. So no nerfing until after I stat pad.

Lrm players sure don't have inflated kills, only damage and assists. It is feast or famine getting kills with lrms.

[ShinVector]

Kjudoon, on 20 July 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

Well I watched the videos you put up Shin, and really, Mav's not wrong on most of his basic premise. I did notice you kill snaking a lot though. LOL. As a Remorae for the LRM sharks out there, you stand to lose a lot if they change it seems.... well for a while.

That said, these videos do show that narcing targets is a valid tactic for casual/low level games. We haven't seen any tournys lately, but that will change soon I suspect. The real proof that LRMs are underpowered will be once we start seeing teams using LRMs to win matches. Solo tournies, yes you can farm the damage. That's a known fact, so it's not really a good measure of them, but team tournys are.

And yet I would say 95% probably more of the matches are casual rather than competitive.

The DF suffers from slow speed... If the LRMers can kite and its a big map... The DFs are screwed. Also again NARC has made this a whole lot easier.

The main point I want to drive into the dudes skull is... LRM works a whole lot more better and easier with TEAM WORK and spotters. He kept denying it because he only thinking from the SOLO player perspective.

*If you keep buffing LRM... On the hands of LRM teams and people who know how to use them... Time and time again.. They get abuse and whole battlefield becomes a stand still.

Mavairo, on 20 July 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

Now that I've watched the videos...
Proof against people that stand out in the open and Derp it up sure. Now, redo your little experiment with GR+PPCs and watch them die even faster.

I already proven my point about LRMs.
Do not that this rag tag LRM team I went down with went to have 5 straight wins.

You capture your own videos to prove your counter point.. Gather a bunch of guys and show how easy it for your PPC+Gauss to win...

*I will leave you with somethings to think about..
LOS. (Direct fire)
Markmanship.
Server base hit guidance no need to aim. (No need to worry about LAG much.)

For whatever reason you can't do it... I will have no reason to discuss this further.

Edited by ShinVector, 20 July 2014 - 08:44 PM.

[Kjudoon]

yes, but we still don't see it in tournys... so till this is shown otherwise... this is a theory.

[ShinVector]

Kjudoon, on 20 July 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

yes, but we still don't see it in tournys... so till this is shown otherwise... this is a theory.

I rather wait for CW to be the better measuring stick to tactics used. More accessible by most people.

[MischiefSC]

LRMs do need nerfed, just not the way people think. If you take more than 25% of your damage in any match from LRMs you should have your k-factor for Elo (how many total points you're going to lose when you fail) multiplied by 3 or 4. You are clearly in the wrong Elo score. You get low enough and nobody uses R, so I assume they're all dumbfire. That should be easier.

Otherwise, if it ain't Caustic and you're getting NARCed, they are almost insignificant.

Do you even Radar Derp?

[ShinVector]

MischiefSC, on 20 July 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

LRMs do need nerfed, just not the way people think. If you take more than 25% of your damage in any match from LRMs you should have your k-factor for Elo (how many total points you're going to lose when you fail) multiplied by 3 or 4. You are clearly in the wrong Elo score. You get low enough and nobody uses R, so I assume they're all dumbfire. That should be easier.

Otherwise, if it ain't Caustic and you're getting NARCed, they are almost insignificant.

Do you even Radar Derp?

Do note.. Radar Derp doesn't stop NARC... Narc is the New META !

[MischiefSC]

NARC is a killer when used with a group on Caustic and much of Alpine and Canyon. Otherwise.... it helps for pug herding.

Don't see it a lot pugging though.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Sigh... Blatant refusal to acknowledge the issue because of one's own bias. So sorry you are stuck in the tryhard tier full of people that treat the game like a job and winning no matter what the cost is the only way. Many weapons aren't as effective in that group of min/maxers. Most people however, just enjoy having fun, and being locked behind "cover" for 10 mins before getting swarmed because your teammates got impatient and died on maps like caustic when the random MM gods decide your team gets no ECM on caustic vs 90+ lrm volleys is the definition of not fun. Same with pop tarters but those require more team support and coordination rather than random luck with team composition and available equipment to be effective or something, I'm kinda surprised at how few there are in the solo queue.
Stop forcing the weapon system to be so incredibly dependent on team composition so they can be consistently effective yet never too good even in the most/least optimal setting. Nerf supporting and countering equipment especially radar dep and ECM. But indrect fire has to be nerfed for the weapon system to be able to be buffed. Hell you could give missiles 300m/s speed, half lock-on time, better tracking, maybe increase damage, and make them fire and forget when used as direct fire as long as you make indirect fire significantly increased lock-on times, double spread, etc. and require TAG/NARC in to to get locks. Then they better give NARC a HUD warning, it's pretty stupid this hasn't been done already. The impulse needs to get under control though, lrm 5s should not do so much shake by themselves.

[Rex Budman]

GutterBoy5, on 08 June 2014 - 08:24 PM, said:

OMG

LRMS are fine, actually a good LRMS pilot needs a lot of skill
To combat
ECM
Ams
Terrain
Lights
Slowest moving weapon in the game
Useless under 180 mtrs
Heaviest ammo use
In coming missile warning
Should I go on, don't blame LRMS ..

ITS YOU ,LEARN YOU USE ABOVE MENTIONED THINGS

& before you got to the written by a LRMS lover , I use all types of combat & prefer brawling . LRMS arnt even a threat many of my brawlers don't even have ams ,it's a waist of tonnage .it's helpful to make it easier to close in on them & tear them apart (within 180mtrs)

Wish we could nerf ppl that whine about LRMS . Much better solution.oh your gonna cry to high heaven when clan LRMS are happening .

Roflmao - seriously... I don't think LRM are OP these days, but let me just say;

ECM - Derp - either hide under someone else's umbrella or don't.

Ams - Derp, how is this a pilot skill? They mitigate minor damage - you know how to combat that? PRESS MORE MOUSE1

Terrain - "Oh look, hill, I go there now!" - yes I see the "challenge"

Lights - Lights go fast. If your team doesn't protect you, no amount of backflips and karate kicks will help you.

Slowest moving weapon in the game - Yet there's nothing you can do about its speed, and they still hit hard and fast...

Useless under 180 mtrs - So? You can't use a pistol to shoot down an airplane; wheres the skill aspect you so highly regard?

Heaviest ammo use - Yet damage output speaks for itself.

Incoming missile warning - Woopdi-dooooooo and that's still not a skill.

Should I go on, don't blame LRMS .. Yeah you should go on - so far you have only highlighted 2 very general aspects of gameplay across all mechs.

Edited by Rex Budman, 21 July 2014 - 01:19 AM.

[Star Colonel Silver Surat]

I think the one and only thing that needs adjusting with LRMs is to reduce the beyond ridiculous screen shake impulse from Clan LRMs. It's absurdly stupid that it causes more shake for far longer than getting hit with an Ac20 round.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

The funny thing is they introduced the fix to min-range for Clan LRMs...and they are totally not worth firing at that point. All the end of the world naysayers crack me up though.