793 replies to this topic

[Anjian]

IraqiWalker, on 26 December 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but the gears have NEVER felt like real mechs, not even in the old games. Say what you want, but MWO mechs move like mechs. Sure I want to flex my mech biceps, and I can't do that, but movement wise, the MWO mechs move like mechs.

Never felt that mechs in MWO had an immersive mech feel to them, They feel too light and agile, lack mechanical intricacies and that certain sense of awkwardness that machines make.

Here are some games that make you really like its a mech.

Battlefield 2142


Steel Battalion


Chromehounds


War Thunder (April 1 event only)

[IraqiWalker]

We'll agree to disagree, because Chromehounds definitely does NOT feel like mechs to me. The Warthunder ones were fun, but still meh. Only Battlefield 2142 kinda does it.

I think what you seem to want, is more cockpit shake when moving.

[Hexenhammer]

Here is my experience with MechWarrior: Living Legends.

Aerospace Fighters
WTF am I doing?
I'm a dead mech.
WTF am I doing?
Aerospace Fighters
WTF am I doing?
Aerospace Fighters
I'm a dead mech.
Aerospace Fighters
Aerospace Fighters
Aerospace Fighters

It took one day of playing MW:LL To see first hand how overwhelmingly superior air cover is over a mech. Mechs are not designed to shoot at fast moving overhead things like planes and as such they are sitting ducks for the most average of pilots.

Hell thats why they designed the Rifleman. Its a mech specifically designed to take out aircraft. So that is why I am so anti aerospace in MWO. I come here to play mechs. Not areotech. If I wanted that, I'd played MWLL.

WITH all that said, I want MW:LL to be as successful as it can be. Why? Because competition makes everyone better. Just look at the WWE. They bought out all their rivals and they've become stale and stagnant.


And we wouldn't have this!






And MW:LL has some pretty nice features in it that MWO should implement.

Edited by Hexenhammer, 31 December 2015 - 05:27 PM.

[Anjian]

IraqiWalker, on 31 December 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

We'll agree to disagree, because Chromehounds definitely does NOT feel like mechs to me. The Warthunder ones were fun, but still meh. Only Battlefield 2142 kinda does it.

I think what you seem to want, is more cockpit shake when moving.

Chromehounds has a sense of mechanical articulation and movement that the mechs in MWO simply doesn't have.

In fact, I am pretty disappointed with the articulation and movement of the mechs here. It doesn't feel like a mech, doesn't feel like human either. The whole point of a robot, its purpose of invention both in fiction and industry, is the imitation of human movement.

What the feeling that you are in a machine, that every move has a precise deliberation, machination, with weight and friction all occurring, all in the attempt to create human like movement. I don't want mechs to feel like someone in rubber suits or cardboard boxes (like Robby the Robot) trying to walk across an environment that feels like one of those sets made for Godzilla movies, and the guy with the rubber suit comes stomping in.

This game really has a horrible creative direction.

Edited by Anjian, 02 January 2016 - 01:26 AM.

[Anjian]

Heffay, on 04 December 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

I'm sure they'd absolutely LOVE to be in MWO's position right now, regardless of whether or not they were a direct competitor.

Surely not.

As of October 2015, Titanfall's sales passed 10 million globally.

http://www.ign.com/a...illion-globally

Working on a sequel too.

[IraqiWalker]

Anjian, on 02 January 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

Surely not.

As of October 2015, Titanfall's sales passed 10 million globally.

http://www.ign.com/a...illion-globally

Working on a sequel too.

Except Titanfall isn't exactly a good game. Ever wonder why it's almost completely dead on PC? It's only alive on X-Box, where it has 2 other games to compete with. It's getting sales simply because it's practically the only one out there for console.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 02 January 2016 - 08:23 PM.

[Anjian]

IraqiWalker, on 02 January 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

Except Titanfall isn't exactly a good game. Ever wonder why it's almost completely dead on PC? It's only alive on X-Box, where it has 2 other games to compete with. It's getting sales simply because it's practically the only one out there for console.

Who are you to say its a good game or not? Is MWO a good game or not? Does it really even matter?

The fact of the matter it, it sells. 10 million copies is a very big thing in the game industry. Usually 500,000 is regarded as a success and over a million is considered a hit. 10 million is enormously successful. Many A titles don't even reach that number. Not even half that number. I hardly doubt its dead on the PC, even a fraction of 10 million is much bigger than MWO. If anything the competition on the console is more intense. Titanfall competes both as a shooter and a scifi game, and sees itself more competing with games like Halo and Star Wars Battlefront. Nobody believes a game that isn't good is going to sell 10 million copies (probably even more now after 2015 holiday season).

Plans for mobile games and tablets, as well as a free to play PC shooter.
http://www.dailystar...hit-coming-soon

[Gremlich Johns]

As of May 2015, GTA V had sold nearly 54 million copies. It was released November 2013. At a mere 10 Million copies since it launched in March 2014, Titanfall is a poor performer and is NOT a competitor with Halo or even the Battlefront Star Wars reskin game. Nobody that I game with regularly even mentions Titanfall, if they do, it's to point out the limited multiplayer capability it has. Clearly, you are a lone player of the game who really likes it. Good on ya for being such a Fan!

http://venturebeat.c...million-copies/

extract from the Titanfall wiki:
Reviewers praised its balance, Smart Pistol weapon, player mobility, and overall accessibility for players of all skill sets, but criticized its thin campaign, disappointing artificial intelligence, and lack of community features and multiplayer modes. Critics considered the game a successful evolution for the first-person shooter genre but did not agree as to whether the game delivered on its anticipation.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 03 January 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[Anjian]

It is still 10 million copies. You sell the first 500,000 out of initial hype and advertising, but to get to the rest of the 10 million, it has to be carried through word of mouth. For all its faults, do realize that this is a FIRST GENERATION product of a brand new IP. How many games and generations does CoD, Halo and GTA has, along with how many years of brand building?

All the Mechwarriors combined in over decade barely exceeded 1 million, and that's given all the generations of games and years of brand building. Relative to scifi shooters, when MWO's CW only has a total of 13,000 to 14,000 thousand players, representing a faction of the player base, given what a faction could be, this game doesn't have an active player base over 100,000.

[Loc Nar]

Plizzken, on 24 December 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

MW:LL is dead - the brothers , who created and programmed most of MW:LL work for Star Citizen now. "Criminal" stated he would love to create another Battletech Game with Star Citizen Engine.

-snip-

You say that like it's a bad thing... skip to 40:06

[IraqiWalker]

Anjian, on 03 January 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:

Who are you to say its a good game or not? Is MWO a good game or not? Does it really even matter?

The fact of the matter it, it sells. 10 million copies is a very big thing in the game industry. Usually 500,000 is regarded as a success and over a million is considered a hit. 10 million is enormously successful. Many A titles don't even reach that number. Not even half that number. I hardly doubt its dead on the PC, even a fraction of 10 million is much bigger than MWO. If anything the competition on the console is more intense. Titanfall competes both as a shooter and a scifi game, and sees itself more competing with games like Halo and Star Wars Battlefront. Nobody believes a game that isn't good is going to sell 10 million copies (probably even more now after 2015 holiday season).

Plans for mobile games and tablets, as well as a free to play PC shooter.
http://www.dailystar...hit-coming-soon

I'm a consumer, as such I get to judge. Plus, I am aware of the market situation for both console, and PC.

I repeat: Titanfall is NOT a good game. Nor is it a competitor. It's only competing in the Console market, because there are very few games for it to compete against. It has a community there for lack of a better alternative. While on the PC it is completely dead, because we have so many options.

I don't need to say that if titanfall is good it would have competed against actual FPS games, on the PC. Because it actually did, and it reached the almost dead stage within a year of release.

Look at it's multiplayer population on the PC. It's got a big community on the console because consoles only have Halo, CoD, and Rainbow Six, and the Star Wars . I may have forgotten 2 other titles, but that's it. Compared to the PC which is rich in good FPS titles that have living communities. Take a look at CS:GO's (released in 2012) online community, and population, and compare that against Titanfall.

You can say that Titanfall is enjoyable, sure. However, as far as successful, or good, it really isn't. If it was, it would have lasted more than a year, and yes, it's a new IP. So was Dishonored. Compare the success of the two.

Say what you want about MW:O, but it at least has lasted for far longer than Titanfall. Yes, it's total population is probably around 35K right now, but it's alive, and if they keep doing things right (and do some goddamn advertising), it'll probably keep on growing. We had Titanfall, and we had Hawken, and both lost, while MW:O kept on trucking.

[Anjian]

Competition in the console market is far tougher than the PC market. Titanfall competes against a whole host of scifi related shooters out there.

So you are a consumer? So are the 10 million others that bought Titanfall. By the way a lot of consumers don't consider MWO a good game.

Once again, Titanfall is a first generation product on a brand new IP. CS:GO is not. Neither is Halo, CoD, Star Wars. All these are established games that after successive game generations, managed to develop a more complex and richer multiplayer online experience.

Maybe you should ask why Microsoft, who owns the Mechwarrior digital franchise, decided to finance Halo and Titanfall instead for their consoles, rather than make a new Mechwarrior game.

I don't know what you mean Mechwarrior has lasted far longer than Titanfall. It only started much earlier than Titanfall. No Mechwarrior title ever sold 10 million copies. In fact, the total sales of Mechwarrior games in its franchise entirety never came close to 10 million (more like a small fraction of that).

MWO as an F2P game, actually expects much greater registrations and player base than console games. GTA V sells 54 million copies. World of Tanks, which has far less advertising budget than GTA V, has over 120 million registrations. F2P games generally have far greater registrations than subscription games and console games. Allods Online boasts around 20 to 30 million. DoTA 2 has over 50 million. A successful PC-console MMO with subscriptions like Final Fantasy 14 ARR, gets to boast only 4 to 5 million registrations.

Simply by the standards of massive online F2P games, MWO can be considered a disaster. I play CW on MWO, and I don't count over 100 players online at least for my faction. I go to War Thunder the next moment, and there are over 70,000 people playing simultaneously. That is concurrent, not your total active player count.

[IraqiWalker]

Anjian, on 04 January 2016 - 06:31 PM, said:

I don't know what you mean Mechwarrior has lasted far longer than Titanfall. It only started much earlier than Titanfall. No Mechwarrior title ever sold 10 million copies. In fact, the total sales of Mechwarrior games in its franchise entirety never came close to 10 million (more like a small fraction of that).

MWO started in late 2011. Still alive today. (going on 5 years now)

Titanfall launched in 2014. Dead by mid 2015. Not even a full year, on PC.

You want to say that TItanfall actually has competition on Console? List the number of console games that are competing against it.

Again, the list can't surpass a dozen games or so. Whereas MWO has to compete with literally hundreds of games.

This is simple, and irrefutable math. Otherwise, give me one good reason why Titanfall died on PC? If it was so good, and there is less competition on PC, why is it dead here, considering PC is the premier FPS platform?

Also, while it's true Mechwarrior is an established IP. One should also acknowledge that it's a near extinct IP, and almost no one remembers it. I swear I have friends who play Tabletop games like no tomorrow, and most of them never even heard of Battletech.

CoD has been releasing a game a year. The last Mechwarrior game before MW:O was MW4, released in 2000, 15 years ago. Why do you think most of our population is older players? Because younger kids never heard of it.

For the record, MW4's online community lasted for several years. Again, TItanfall didn't make a full year.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 04 January 2016 - 11:51 PM.

[Anjian]

IraqiWalker, on 04 January 2016 - 11:49 PM, said:

MWO started in late 2011. Still alive today. (going on 5 years now)

You call that a positive boast?

5 years, and you probably only have a 100,000 or so active players? (Probably over a million registered but usually player churn means 90% leaves the game at some point.)

World of Tanks started around that period too. It now has well over one hundred million registrations, and player concurrent peaks hits over a million.

http://www.vbaddict....world-of-tanks/

Quote

Titanfall launched in 2014. Dead by mid 2015. Not even a full year, on PC.

Oh seriously. 10 million copies sold?

You think PC is the only gaming platform out there?

With a sequel being developed?

With an F2P massive form being developed?

With mobile and tablet versions being developed?

Quote

You want to say that TItanfall actually has competition on Console? List the number of console games that are competing against it.

Yes, its actually very common for console games to be shooters with mech elements on it. Every damn shooter in the console business competes against it.

Quote

Again, the list can't surpass a dozen games or so. Whereas MWO has to compete with literally hundreds of games.

Surely you jest.

Scifi shooters in the console include anything from Halo to Gears of War to Destiny, Lost Planet, Red Faction, Mass Effect, and even stealth games like Metal Gear. Then you have the general FPS shooters like CoD and Battlefield. Every console game competes with each other even indirectly but the competition is real (Uncharted, Last of Us).

What competition does Mechwarrior Online has? If its about all those other F2P games, MWO isn't succeeding, because its among at the very bottom of the list. Surely you jest about the "hundreds" of competition, since the major F2P games are not in the hundreds but the dozens. But when you compare MWO against them, MWO is literally dwarfed.

For example, World of Warships just celebrated having 6.2 million players at the end of the year. Not bad for a game that went open last September. Proud to be among the 500,000 closed beta testers for the game.

Quote

This is simple, and irrefutable math. Otherwise, give me one good reason why Titanfall died on PC? If it was so good, and there is less competition on PC, why is it dead here, considering PC is the premier FPS platform?

I hate to be where you learned math.

Titanfall never died in the PC. Its only in your imagination.

PC is not the premier FPS platform. The top shooters, like CoD, Battlefield, Destiny, have the bulk of their sales in the console, and prioritize selling in the console.

Quote

Also, while it's true Mechwarrior is an established IP. One should also acknowledge that it's a near extinct IP, and almost no one remembers it. I swear I have friends who play Tabletop games like no tomorrow, and most of them never even heard of Battletech.

Yeah, I wonder how many of these greying old men still play tabletops.

Fact remains, Battletech and Mechwarrior has such a stench in the game industry, no one else would take it. Its very rules do not translate to precise balancing requirements for modern shooting games.

Quote

CoD has been releasing a game a year. The last Mechwarrior game before MW:O was MW4, released in 2000, 15 years ago. Why do you think most of our population is older players? Because younger kids never heard of it.

Sequels to MW4 continue to be made after that, ending with Mercenaries, then the Mektek add ons. The Dark Age series started around 2003 and went on to 2008, during what appears to be the collectible craze in desktop gaming.

Quote

For the record, MW4's online community lasted for several years. Again, TItanfall didn't make a full year.

What didn't make it a full year? That it sold 10 million copies during that period that means for you didn't make it a full year? No Mechwarrior title sold 10 million copies in a years time. Look at the pathetic size of MWO's player base after five years in the F2P business --- a sector in the gaming industry where its common to get millions of players.

Titanfall is just starting. You sell 10 million copies, the first 500,000 or so tends to be by initial advertising hype. The rest is due to word of mouth. Unlike MWO, Titanfall actually has good word of mouth.

[IraqiWalker]

Anjian, I'm sorry, but player population for Titanfall on PC is virtually non-existent, I don't know where you learned math, but that's a fact.

As for why PC is the premier FPS platform, here are simple clues: Practically every multiplayer FPS title started on the PC, it's the only platform where FPS titles don't use Aim Assists, and it's the only platform where actual tourneys for competitive FPS games are held. Name the year when a Counter Strike tourney was held on PS4, or Xbox One. Oh yeah, that never happened.

You want to list top of the line shooters? List every single one on the console, then add ones like Counterstrike, Medal of Honor ... etc. Because PC has all of the ones on console, plus extras. I'm sorry, but last I checked, FPS games not only rose on the PC platform, but any serious FPS competition is held only on PC. PC has the most active competitive Multiplayer FPS scenes, it's literally the most competitive platform for multiplayer FPS games, and this is not me pulling numbers out of my ***. It's backed by not only sales, but also attendance for these events. Also, unlike consoles, games on PC actually have a significantly longer lifespan than on console. For crying outloud CoD Pro mod is still played on PC, and it's been 8 years since the bloody game was released. PC has TF2. CS:GO is one of the most popular games on Steam. These are genuine competitors. CS 1.6 is still played on LAN, and that game has been out since 1999. It's still being played on PC 16 years later. We still hold national tournaments on CS 1.6 in the middle east, with thousands of players.


Titanfall sold 10 million copies total, which you keep toting, however I repeat, it's only alive on consoles where there is little competition. It's not alive on PC where it has actual competitors. You yourself listed all the games it's competing against on console. Now go to your steam account and select FPS, or F2P, and check that list.

Let me save you the trouble, it's more than 10 times the competition, (this means if there are 10 games on console, then there are 100 on PC, just so we're clear on my math).

Now whether or not MW:O is succeeding, I simply re-iterate my point. It sure lasted longer than Titanfall.

For crying out loud, their forums are littered with threads with the title "How can I find a match on PC", or "Why can't I find a Titanfall match on PC". By October 30th, I started seeing dead servers with no players in them, so please. Don't tell me it's alive on PC when it really isn't. The main reason for it's extinction on PC is competition, because PC players actually have better alternatives.

Now, since you didn't answer my question, let me answer it for you:

Here's why Titanfall failed on PC:

1- It's on Origin
2- It's not on Steam
3- It offered something new, but the map packs + dwindling player population + better competition trifecta bled it dry.
4- (and this is the most critical one) it lacks the ability to support community servers, and LAN functionality

You can keep saying it didn't fail on PC, but it did, and it's basically dead. Even if you want to say it's not dead yet. It's almost dead now.

You want to compare it to MW:O, fine. MW:O has more players than Titanfall on PC, and has lasted longer. You can say what you want, but it has lasted for longer. Since, and I assume you believe in math, 5 is bigger than 0.8 years. If you don't believe that 5 is bigger than 0.8 then we really don't have much to talk about.

Now whether or not Titanfall has better representation of mechs, or not, is a matter of personal opinion. I say it's not to my taste, you say it is to you. That's that.

I saw the Chromehounds mechs as very rudimentary compared to the ones we're supposed to have in BT, and MW. Chromehounds mechs were like the predecessors to the Mackie. Whereas the mechs we have in BT are supposed to be avatars of war, and gods of battle. They should be moving in a smoother manner.

Again. That's my opinion.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 05 January 2016 - 10:42 PM.

[Anjian]

I am not the one who needs to learn the math. You are. Checking the forums, there appears to be as many as 10,000 players in the weekends last month. That's not bad for a one year old game, that got its costs paid upfront when you buy the game. 10,000 players for a console game isn't bad at all, since the cost of the servers are mitigated on XBox. But for an F2P, its death, because F2P demands that the playing players must continue to pay for its subsistence.

In any case, 10 million copies is a statement for itself. The developers of Titanfall are now in partnership with Nexon, one of the biggest game publishers in Korea who are responsible for many successful MMOs and F2P games.

Now you keep saying that PC is still the top FPS platform? Where the hell do you check? While it is true PC is still for eSports, but when it comers to sheer sales, those on the consoles far outsell that of the PC by far. Next time instead of say, the last time I check, bring some real numbers:

http://www.vgchartz....me=Call+of+Duty

http://www.vgchartz....ame=Battlefield

Golly too many numbers there that I have to bring in webpages. You can see the PC numbers are literally buried compared to the console numbers.

Oh here's more.

http://www.vgchartz....medb/?name=Halo

http://www.vgchartz....me=Gears+of+War

I don't really know what planet you are in to say there is no competition. Looking at their forums for other games Titanfall players play, I find Uncharted Multiplayer comes up often enough, among the usual games like CoD. You can find that so many different titles are mentioned because, every console game competes with each other across genres. The markets for console games are different from F2P games because each console game is a consumable by itself, when they are consumed the player moves to another and then another, though sometimes he or she returns to the old game occasionally. Console games have a natural life cycle and when it does, the game dies, but the brand lives on for another sequel. And that's what Titanfall is going to have.

An F2P game like MWO has a different economic structure because it requires an active player base that needs to pay dues to keep it going, which is why it feeds its player base its own consumables ergo content.

You are only saying MWO lasted longer than Titanfall only because MWO started earlier. That's not a statement of longevity, that's only a statement that it started earlier. It doesn't last longer until the crow and the fat lady sings.

As for the Chromehounds, their legs articulate on more joints than on MWO. Furthermore, those mechs don't come prepackaged --- each Chromehound is unique, built from a series of parts. That actually makes the movement of each Chromehound unique from one player's mech to another. That's an awesome piece of coding considering they fit that on an XBox 360. When the cannons fire, each barrel has its own recoil movement. You can switch the legs of your mech for a set of wheels, or for hovercraft to go over water, or for a four legger. Or you can get a set of four legs, put a few joints then slap two or three battleship turrets on top of them for an artillery mech, and all three turrets will turn towards the same direction, each on its own axis. If you put a communications array, the antenna is turning around and around on its own axis. There is also melee weapon that is one massive pile driver puts a big spike into the enemy. Jeez, true physical CQC.

As for representation of mechs, are you even supposing that a "stompy" one is the right interpretation of a mech? I find that a really funny.

What a mecha really is, and how it is defined? A mecha, or robot, is meant as a machine representation of the human form and the human movement. And I don't mean just stomping, or turning its torso with its arms fixed on its chest. It is an insanely outdated idea that mechs should fight like giant mummies or zombies shooting from their chest. The closer a mech achieves human like movement, the more it achieves what it is supposed to be.



The more human like a mech moves, the more human like it fights. Thus supposing that mecha should fight more like humans is the logical correct one because that is what the militaries seek to replace.

Even in Battletech lore, the mechs move their arms freely about so one mech can use a giant hatchet to split open another mech's head. An Atlas should grab a Commando by its legs and decapitate a Centurion with it.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hatchetman

This student film shows you want people really expect of battlemechs.



As for Hawken or Titanfall a better representation of mechs?

At least Hawken does a better job of arm articulation. Note how the arms move freely about and would even recoil.



Note how their mechs resemble the Boston Dynamics' Atlas.

I also appreciate how the mechs in Titanfall take those mechs from Boston Dynamics to its ultimate conclusion centuries later.

[IraqiWalker]

Because despite all the sales you keep mentioning (btw, 10 million dropping down to >10,000 within a year is abysmal), PC is where the competitive mutiplayer online communities actually manage to persist for longer than the one year Titanfall has lasted. It's also where the tournaments are held.

You keep talking about competition for them, and you still miss the point that when there are fewer games, that's less competition.

Here, let me break it down for you in a simple way:

If there are 10 customers, and I have 2 types of apples to sell them, it's quite easy for both types to get enough customers to persist.

Now if I have 10 customers, and I have 20 different apples, not many of them will find customers, because there is actually competition there. Those 20 apples have to work their asses off to guarantee they get enough customers to survive.

That's how competition works. Console has far less competition for Titanfall than PC. Otherwise, and I will keep repeating this: Why did it flop so hard on PC?

By the way, next time you want to bring in a website to catalog sales across multiple platforms, make sure their database is reliable. They don't have CS:GO on their database. They don't have quite a few games actually.

Also, and this is pretty fundamental, since it's the platform where competitions are held, it's the home of competitive play.

I don't go to France and say it's home to the Pyramids, when the Pyramids are in Egypt. Even if more Pyramid figurines sold in France.

As far as MWO lasting longer, you seem to misunderstand how ages work.

If my father dies in 2020, and I die in 2021, that doesn't mean I lasted longer than him. I only lived for a fraction of his age.



With regard to how mechs move, again, that's up for subjective preference, I like the way the MW:O mechs move. Sure I want the arms to move, and have full range of motion with my arms. Yeah, I want them to be even smoother with virtually no shake when they walk. However, what MW:O did is better than the alternatives you presented.

Again: This is personal preference here.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 07 January 2016 - 11:13 PM.

[Kh0rn]

Picture of the...well new year I guess. KABOOM!

[Kh0rn]

Chaos march battle. To start the new year.

[IraqiWalker]

I think videos of games would be a bit more engaging than just cinematic picture.

That PPC brought back some flashbacks from the older MW games. XD

Edited by IraqiWalker, 08 January 2016 - 07:15 PM.