455 replies to this topic

[xengk]

Just notice most of a TBT's weapons are on the arm, shoot them off and you will be left with just a missile slot.
I need to see the hitbox on this thing.

[Elizander]

Signal27, on 19 February 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

That's what happened to me. But you know what? I came back. I just took a break from the game for about a month. "Burning out" on a game is going to happen no matter how fast content is put out for it. That's fine, though, because I didn't buy my PC to exclusively be my Mechwarrior machine, I bought it to play many different games. So I often take long breaks from MWO and other games like it (such as World of Tanks) to go play other fun things. Then when I eventually come back, hopefully they've put in a lot of fresh new content in the time I've been gone. This is a regular cycle for me and I'm guessing many other people do similarly.

Yup! That's how it should be for most people. I'm having some rubberbanding issues at the moment due to latency so I'm playing some other games right now. I did come back to buy a Pretty Baby and take it out for a spin! I might play a few more games this weekend since the Centurion tweaks have me interested! I just hope that I don't rubberband too much. Rubberbanding is worse than Lag Shield for me since it's frustrating to warp back in time repeatedly while lining up shots.

[RawheadRex]

Glad to see its flying Steiner colors .
Now where is my WARHAMMER RIFLEMAN and LOCUST?

[Nate O]

I call it the Trenchbucket lol

[Kiiyor]

Elizander, on 19 February 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

Yup! That's how it should be for most people. I'm having some rubberbanding issues at the moment due to latency so I'm playing some other games right now. I did come back to buy a Pretty Baby and take it out for a spin! I might play a few more games this weekend since the Centurion tweaks have me interested! I just hope that I don't rubberband too much. Rubberbanding is worse than Lag Shield for me since it's frustrating to warp back in time repeatedly while lining up shots.

I have exactly the same problem! I notice it most after I change direction, rarely while torso twisting. I've learned to pick a new heading, wait a second... or two... and readjust aim after the server derides my crosshair for being in the wrong place and slaps it a mech length or two to one it prefers.

The major issue for me is grinding my teeth while I wait for the (annoyingly) intermittent lag-bounce to occur.

[Elizander]

RawheadRex, on 19 February 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

Glad to see its flying Steiner colors .
Now where is my WARHAMMER RIFLEMAN and LOCUST?

Get in line behind my BATTLEMASTER!

Most of my friends who play MWO sparingly keep telling me to 'kill the Commando' when I'm chasing down a Treb.

[FrostCollar]

Elizander, on 26 February 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

Get in line behind my BATTLEMASTER!

Most of my friends who play MWO sparingly keep telling me to 'kill the Commando' when I'm chasing down a Treb.

At least it doesn't look like an overweight Catapult! Oh that Stalker...

[Xenoise]

Nate O, on 26 February 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

I call it the Trenchbucket lol

i call it the trashbucket, sold after 2 days. But was also my fault since my main is a centurion cn9-d

[John MatriX82]

I am liking it. I've started off with a 3C (that prolly I'm going to sell) and plan to keep 5J and 5N. I use them as fast brawlers with large xl engines (yes I know, kinda mad).

What I don't like is that whenever I try to bring a TBT I constantly get in teams that are underweighted just because of the new ELO system.. and exping them is becoming a pain. Even more now that you need to address all the elite efficiencies before seeing the basics doubled.

[Mechteric]

Here's the three variants I decided to go for, in order: 5J, 7K, 7M

I started with the 5J because I wanted jump jets and I prefer having as many energy mounts as possible in most of my mechs anyway so it fit better at the time than a 7M.

Next I moved to the 7K because I wanted to try to use it as a hunchback without the vulnerability of the hunch (AC20 with standard engine). Though lately I've decided to speed it up and based it around Ultra AC/5 and it seems much more capable now for my needs.

Lastly I was considering not getting the 7M as my last one since I already had the other jump variant and instead go for the 3C since it was the faster variant. But then I realized that if you actually use that speed you essentially end up with something almost exactly like what the Centurion 9D can mount at those speeds, which I already have. The 7M won the third spot because even though you can mount similar weapons on it as a Centurion AL as an LRM support mech, it had the jump jet advantage which can be really helpful if you need to clear a hill or building to fire your LRMs. Also 15 missile ports versus the Cent AL's 10 ports.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 28 February 2013 - 06:07 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

So...

Potential Hero Trebuchet: "Rain Maker", piloted by Lieutenant Morgana "The Witch" Kirkpatrick of the merc unit "Kirkpatrick's Bandit Killers" (and later CO of the successor unit, "Kirkpatrick's Invaders").
Listed in TRO 3039, pg. 138
The pilot (who is the wife of the KBK's CO and mother of the KI's future CO) is raven-haired and has a penchant for wearing black leather off-duty attire (the source of the call-sign/nickname) - suggesting a black/dark paint scheme
Loadout not listed (giving PGI a bit of free reign)

one potential loadout:
Engine: Standard 200 (top speed: 64.8 kph)
Jump Jets: none
Internal Structure: Standard
Heat Sinks: 10 Standard (8 in engine, 1 in Head, 1 in Center Torso)
Armor: Standard (262 armor points)
Hardpoints: 2 Energy (RA, LA), 1 Ballistic (RA), and 3 Missile (LT, CT, RT)

• x2 Medium Lasers (one in each arm)
  
• x1 Machine Gun (in the Right Arm, with one ton of ammo also in the Right Arm)
  
• x2 LRM-15 launchers (one in each side-torso, with two tons of ammo in the Left Torso and one ton of ammo in the Right Torso)
  
• x1 SRM-4 launcher (in the Center Torso, with one ton of ammo in the Right Torso)

Your thoughts?

[Adridos]

Strum Wealh, on 09 March 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Your thoughts?

Sturm, we both know why you've created that mech...

And it's a bad idea. You've build it around correcting Trebuchet's design flaws (both LRMs not being in side toroses) which really steals the flavour of the mech. A perfect mech is the worst mech you can come up with. And exploiting bad game design with the sneaky 1xMG in arm you would absolutely never use for a gauss just adds insult to the injury.

Please, keep this in mind when coming up with such suggestions.

Edited by Adridos, 09 March 2013 - 08:02 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Adridos, on 09 March 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Sturm, we both know why you've created that mech...

To have something 1.) besides kvetching about consumables, 2.) besides kvetching about ECM, and 3.) actually (and literally!) constructive to discuss...

Adridos, on 09 March 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

And it's a bad idea. You've build it around correcting Trebuchet's design flaws (both LRMs not being in side toroses) which really steals the flavour of the mech. A perfect mech is the worst mech you can come up with. And exploiting bad game design with the sneaky 1xMG in arm you would absolutely never use for a gauss just adds insult to the injury.

Please, keep this in mind when coming up with such suggestions.

It's slow for a Medium and would have a lower engine cap than all other TBT variants.
It's under-sinked (10 SHS).
It's not jump-capable.
The TBT-7M also has a missile hardpoint in both side-torsos, so the asymmetry argument doesn't hold. And, unlike the TBT-7M (which carries its third missile hardpoint in the arm), the proposed third missile hardpoint doesn't allow for a third LRM-15 or a third LRM-20 - making the proposal's overall missile capability substantially less than that of the -7M and only scarcely greater than all others but the -5J.
The single ballistic hardpoint gives it less ballistic capability than the TBT-5K (which carries two ballistic hardpoints in the Left Torso) - unlike the -5K, the proposal cannot support an AC/20, dual LB 10-X, dual UAC/5, dual AC/5, dual AC/2, or even dual MG loadouts.

Therefore, I submit that the proposed "Rain Maker" loadout is far from, and is anything but, the min-max nightmare that the quoted post makes it out to be.

Conversely: given:

• the Trebuchet's primary role as a missile boat, and
  
• the missilery/bombardment implications suggested by the name "Rain Maker", and
  
• a limitation of no more than six (6) hardpoints, and
  
• the requirement that the proposal be none of 1.) strictly superior to, 2.) strictly inferior to, or 3.) easily replicable on any other TBT variant

How would you outfit Kirkpatrick's 'Mech?

[Adridos]

Strum Wealh, on 09 March 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

The TBT-7M also has a missile hardpoint in both side-torsos, so the asymmetry argument doesn't hold. And, unlike the TBT-7M (which carries its third missile hardpoint in the arm), the proposed third missile hardpoint doesn't allow for a third LRM-15 or a third LRM-20 - making the proposal's overall missile capability substantially less than that of the -7M and only scarcely greater than all others but the -5J.

How would you outfit Kirkpatrick's 'Mech?

7M has the basic TBT missile loadout. The second hole is a NARC one, so you won't get anything good out of it unlike your mech.

Sorry for the agressive stance against it, but getting putting MGs into loadouts for obvious reasons?
No... that's just plain wrong.

As far as his mech goes, I'd go with canon and leave him in the same mech he used, a fancy painted standard Trebuchet. Please note those are notable pilots and not notable mechs. Out of all mechwarrior in the Inner Sphere up to the point of omnimech introduction, less than 10 had a mech that was specifically changed for them.

If I had to make a variant. Well, first of all, I wouldn't make it your way, since that is just 4SP with 2 lasers less and that sneaky MG. It would then boil down to hard decisions, since the Trebuchet is really not a mech that needs a hero variant and I would much rather give that honor to, say, a Rifleman-esque Jagermech, Renda Snord's Highlander, etc.

But since you don't give me a choice, I'd go with:

2xSRM6 in the RT,
1xSRM6 in the LA,
PPC+LL combo in the RA (3 energy hardpoints),
ML in the head.

All of this is wrapped under 8 tons of armor.

It can go up to 8 JJs.

STD 255 engine seals the deal.

[Strum Wealh]

Adridos, on 09 March 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Sorry for the agressive stance against it, but getting putting MGs into loadouts for obvious reasons?
No... that's just plain wrong.

And why, precisely, is having a single MG (underslung to a laser) on a 3039-era 'Mech "just plain wrong"?
Even if one takes your stance and just looks at it as "just a ballistic hardpoint", it is a single ballistic hardpoint in a space with, at most, nine (9) available criticals.
By contrast, the -5K has two ballistic hardpoints in a space with up to 12 available criticals.
Why so much concern over half the number of such hardpoints and one-quarter less space to make use of it?

Adridos, on 09 March 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

As far as his mech goes, I'd go with canon and leave him in the same mech he used, a fancy painted standard Trebuchet. Please note those are notable pilots and not notable mechs. Out of all mechwarrior in the Inner Sphere up to the point of omnimech introduction, less than 10 had a mech that was specifically changed for them.

Firstly, the pilot (Morgana Kirkpatrick (née LaFayre)) is female - "Morgana" is generally an exclusively-female name, and I did specifically note in my past post that she is "the wife of the KBK's CO and mother of the KI's future CO".
(And between the name and the "witch" moniker, it's a wonder the BT writers didn't name her son "Wayne" (from Ywain) rather than "Damon"... )

More to the point: it is fairly evident, from the removal (and continued absence) of the CN9-AH and the existance of the Ilya Muromets (instead of the canonical and somewhat well-known Lucky Thirteen), Fang & Flame, and the X-5, that PGI wants the Hero 'Mechs to be completely unlike all of the other available variants.
As such, use of a stock loadout as a Hero 'Mech (unless one does not mind the equivalent c-bill purchasable variant being completely removed from MWO, as was the case with the -AH) is seemingly a non-option.

Making a case for Rain Maker, then, essentially stands on the same ground as the Pretty Baby - the latter and its MechWarrior (Leftenant Danielle Peterson, of the Chisholm's Raiders) are also elements of BT canon (listed on page 154 of TRO 3039), but the Pretty Baby's actual loadout is likewise not described... which left PGI the leeway to fill it out as they saw fit.

Adridos, on 09 March 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

If I had to make a variant. Well, first of all, I wouldn't make it your way, since that is just 4SP with 2 lasers less and that sneaky MG. It would then boil down to hard decisions, since the Trebuchet is really not a mech that needs a hero variant and I would much rather give that honor to, say, a Rifleman-esque Jagermech, Renda Snord's Highlander, etc.

But since you don't give me a choice, I'd go with:

2xSRM6 in the RT,
1xSRM6 in the LA,
PPC+LL combo in the RA (3 energy hardpoints),
ML in the head.

All of this is wrapped under 8 tons of armor.

It can go up to 8 JJs.

STD 255 engine seals the deal.

It seems that what you propose can't be done.

The STD 255 is 13 tons.
The armor is 8 tons.
The PPC is 7 tons.
The Large Laser is 5 tons.
The three SRM-6s (without ammo) total 9 tons (3 tons per launcher * 3 launchers).
The above totals to 42 tons (of which 21 tons are the weapons alone) of proposed gear for a 50-ton 'Mech.

Even with Endo-Steel (2.5 tons) and only what listed above (plus the basic stuff, like the cockpit (3 tons) and gyro (3 tons) - for which MWO accounts in the Engine weight - MWO Wiki lists the STD 255 as requiring 19 tons (13-ton engine + 3-ton cockpit + 3-ton gyro)), it's 0.5 tons overweight (according to RemLab). And your proposal hasn't even addressed the need for ammunition for those SRM-6s.

Even if the SRMs are switched out for 4-tube launchers and ES is used, that leaves only 1.5 tons available to split between ammo and Jump Jets (again, according to RemLab).

And recall, this is a variant operational before 3039 and belonging to a "minor" merc group (that, for the moment in the timeline, is "mysteriously vanished") - so, very likely little/no access to LosTech (which would have been generally reserved for House unit and the richest and most prestiegeous of mercs), which logically means standard gear only for the Rain Maker.

Perhaps your proposal might be revised, so as to actually be buildable...?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 09 March 2013 - 03:08 PM.

[david665]

The story was correct on the tissue paper armour. In theory, my Treb is more heavily armoured than my Blackjack, but the Blackjack takes way more punishment before it goes down.