116 replies to this topic

[Lynx7725]

Destructicus, on 11 June 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

You do know PGI didn't directly design that mech right?

Technically, there is a point in that the original FASA design didn't have to content with 1.4 DHS and ghost heat. But even then, the design never was about heat efficiency; firing everything is a shutdown risk and also a "cooked pilot" risk on TT IIRC.

So it's up to the Mechwarrior to decide what risks to run. The design gives you the capability. Whether or not you use it is up to you.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Firelizard, on 11 June 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

Well of course. If you cant use all your hardpoints at the same time, whats the point?

(I cant remember... I -did- turn my sarcasm processor on, right?)

I always thought the point of loading up on weapons wasnt to alpha strike everything, but instead to have back ups when stuff is on reload or when guns get blown out, you have a backup lol.

But with clan mechs, we have 40 guns.....all in the arms lol.

[Koniving]

Diablobo, on 11 June 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

According to Smurfy's ghost heat chart, a 12 med laser alpha will generate 101.6 heat. This does not include the extra heat for ER med lasers.

If Clan ER med lasers will have the same ghost heat penalties, then the Nova Prime is going to fry itself with one alpha.

Even with the expanded heat scale (which only goes to +50 heat), the pilot will hurt himself, the mech will suffer damage, and the mech will automatically shut down. That would still leave another 20+ points of heat beyond that.

To note..
Inner Sphere Medium Pulse Lasers are NOT listed under Ghost Heat.
Clan ER Mediums are hotter than Clan MPL.
I see no reason for Clan ER ML to be under ghost heat, especially with what looks like a 1.25 second beam time. This + if ML was 3 heat, ER ML would be 5 heat. Since ML is 4 heat, ER ML would then be 6 heat.

Clan ER ML if it follows that pattern would have the same heat as the old MPL, which were deemed too hot to need ghost heat.

I see no reason what-so-ever for us to have to worry about ghost heat.

(I wouldn't be surprised however if Clan MPL did get ghost heat though.)

Edited by Koniving, 11 June 2014 - 07:32 PM.

[Firelizard]

LordKnightFandragon, on 11 June 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

I always thought the point of loading up on weapons wasnt to alpha strike everything, but instead to have back ups when stuff is on reload or when guns get blown out, you have a backup lol.

But with clan mechs, we have 40 guns.....all in the arms lol.

Well, the other point is to have differing weapons with differing effective ranges. One of the reason I run a STK-3F in 'enhanced stock' configuration (stock weapons, DHS upgrade, extra ammo) is because it gives me multiple engagement options. No matter how far away the target is, I like having at least one pair of weapons that will hurt them.

[Bhael Fire]

Diablobo, on 11 June 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

So PGI is putting a mech in players' hands that will instantly blow itself up?

Yeah...and if you stand out of bounds for too long...you blow up.

The solution? Don't f#@king do that.

If some ****** wants to alpha strike with 12 ER medium lasers...that's their problem.

[Firelizard]

Bhael Fire, on 11 June 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

Yeah...and if you stand out of bounds for too long...you blow up.

The solution? Don't f#@king do that.

If some ****** wants to alpha strike with 12 ER medium lasers...that's their problem.

There's always one in every cluster that has to push the shiny red button...

[Lynx7725]

Firelizard, on 11 June 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

There's always one in every cluster that has to push the shiny red button...

Then there will be shortly one vacancy per cluster....

[Tsig]

Firelizard, on 11 June 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

Well, the other point is to have differing weapons with differing effective ranges. One of the reason I run a STK-3F in 'enhanced stock' configuration (stock weapons, DHS upgrade, extra ammo) is because it gives me multiple engagement options. No matter how far away the target is, I like having at least one pair of weapons that will hurt them.

See, you get it. It's not about boating a crap-ton of the SAME weapon. It's about having several different weapons for several different engagement ranges.

[topgun505]

Ah yes. I remember one of the previous MW titles ... I had a clan Supernova. 6 ERLLs and as many DHS as I could cram into it. Ran it the first time and alpha-striked with it just for giggles. My finger had not even left off the trigger before I blew up. No warnings ... just POOF. Very funny.

[Sephlock]

FWIW I could see using 2-4 ER LLas (chain fired and/or in two different groups) and 8-10 ER SLas.

[stalima]

i think accidental alpha is the main concern with it, after all one wrong twitch and boom

[Lynx7725]

stalima, on 11 June 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

i think accidental alpha is the main concern with it, after all one wrong twitch and boom

Then don't twitch wrong.

Or just simply, build smartly, group smartly.

[Sephlock]

Also you guys are missing out on the obvious:
12 TAG LASERS!

[Bhael Fire]

stalima, on 11 June 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

i think accidental alpha is the main concern with it, after all one wrong twitch and boom

I fail to see the problem with that.

Clan mechs will require a higher level of fire discipline and overall skill to use effectively. As it should be.

[FupDup]

Protip: Design loadouts that exploit heat by staying just under the max alpha limit of any given weapon type. Then, alpha strike with impunity using said loadout.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Diablobo, on 11 June 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

According to Smurfy's ghost heat chart, a 12 med laser alpha will generate 101.6 heat. This does not include the extra heat for ER med lasers.

If Clan ER med lasers will have the same ghost heat penalties, then the Nova Prime is going to fry itself with one alpha.

Even with the expanded heat scale (which only goes to +50 heat), the pilot will hurt himself, the mech will suffer damage, and the mech will automatically shut down. That would still leave another 20+ points of heat beyond that.

I say we allow mechs to blow up if they reach a super high level of heat. If ever there was a mech hot enough to Stackpole itself, then the Nova Prime would be it.

Unless PGI makes an exception for the Nova Prime, there are going to be new pilots who fire an alpha and have to sit shutdown for who knows how long it takes to dissipate all that heat. That doesn't sound like much fun. In the heat of battle (heh), pilots can easily make a mistake and fire all their weapons at once.

Why the hell would you Alpha that many lasers anyway?

With a loadout like that, you should be chainfiring or firing groups of 2/3 MAX.

Seriously people are soo concerned about alpha's all the time, makes me wish PGI would just make it so Alpha's were a specific button press that drove your mech into shutdown no matter what, and that all weapons were hardlocked to chainfire.

[Lynx7725]

FupDup, on 11 June 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

Protip: Design loadouts that exploit heat by staying just under the max alpha limit of any given weapon type. Then, alpha strike with impunity using said loadout.

8 CER Meds with 4 TAGs just to confuse people?

[Livewyr]

I think just for shiggles, will take a nova prime stock, and alpha it once. (In training grounds if the PTS has it, it's been a while. )

[Damocles]

this is some top tier discussion. LOL

OP's Keyboard looks something along these lines?

[Snowseth]

I agree. Every mech should be limited to 2 Medium Lasers. No more, no less, no other weapons.

That's clearly what we wants!
Who wants a customization?
Not us!
We want PGI to design a game that we don't have to think about to play!

Variability of loadouts?
That's what poor designers and losers do!

Letting players be responsible for their own in-game activities?
Piss poor design!

Rabble rabble rabble.

I mean, 12xERMLs still generates 60 heat regardless.
But damn it PGI!
You shouldn't let us have 12 of anything to begin with!

Rabble rabble rabble.