107 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

ArchSight, on 13 June 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

The biggest balance concern I have is one shotting small and medium mechs. The XL engine builds with them may become the worse idea ever if it results in them dieing quickly. Even standard engines can be bad too with how much armor is protecting them. With the current armor caps, Mediums and lights are forced to mount lower amounts of armor that leave them susceptable to being killed in one shot from a high damage alpha or a bad situation when multiple alphas hit the mech at the same time.

Clan mechs come with more weapon hardpoints and the bigger they get the more weapons they can pack on to possible one shot mechs. There needs to be more testing but I believe the cicada is going to be one of those undesirably played mechs when the clans release because of it's low armor values and easier to shoot hit boxes. If the cicada is forced to front load all of it's armor how would it survive other fights that require it to turn around? Actually a lot of mechs right now are being forced to front load armor to increase surviability.

Well, as long as it twists, it will actually survive longer when compared to going against IS mechs. 50 PP FLD Dire Wolf aside.

Long burn times and spread ACs mean they can't focus ALL that damage on the same component, unlike IS weapons. So, it's up to the pilot to survive a tad longer.

[CeeKay Boques]

Zolaz, on 13 June 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

Kai Allard-Liao, all your excuses are invalid.

Superior Mechwarrior Produces 2 Offspring with non Warrior. Neither Offspring is a Warrior. Useless waste. Could have harvested generations of Superior Warriors.

Bishop Steiner, on 13 June 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

so how good a job did artificial "Homosapiens Parabellum" do on achieving humanity's manifest destiny, again?

In Progress, standby.

[SirLANsalot]

Technoviking, on 13 June 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

Real men are flawed by their parents random gene structure, destined to produce inferior offspring and decrease humanity's true potential. Good job, real men.

This somehow comes to mind every time someone starts arguing on the internet about Clan Trueborns.









Yes there is one for you "Brony" Pony people.

[ArchSight]

Mcgral18, on 13 June 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Well, as long as it twists, it will actually survive longer when compared to going against IS mechs. 50 PP FLD Dire Wolf aside.

Long burn times and spread ACs mean they can't focus ALL that damage on the same component, unlike IS weapons. So, it's up to the pilot to survive a tad longer.

Except for the 50 PP FLD Dire Wolf. Theres no brushing that off like it doesn't exist. If it's a advantage to do so it will be done and if it's a consistant advantage it will be used in competition. Competition would spread the build to be used more in matches. If the dire wolf gets a trial champion mech that uses the same build thats the worse thing to happen.

[Trauglodyte]

Quote

Real men are flawed by their parents random gene structure, destined to produce inferior offspring and decrease humanity's true potential. Good job, real men.

Not to throw a wrench in your logic there, but you realize that Kerensky and friends were all 10% natural. And, all of those Clanners that came after had genetic structures, albeit enhanced and selected, based on the "flawed" lineage from millennia before. So, yeah, they're still natural if not a little bit on the plastic side.

[Bishop Steiner]

Trauglodyte, on 13 June 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Not to throw a wrench in your logic there, but you realize that Kerensky and friends were all 10% natural. And, all of those Clanners that came after had genetic structures, albeit enhanced and selected, based on the "flawed" lineage from millennia before. So, yeah, they're still natural if not a little bit on the plastic side.

what was the other 90%?

ArchSight, on 13 June 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

Except for the 50 PP FLD Dire Wolf. Theres no brushing that off like it doesn't exist. If it's a advantage to do so it will be done and if it's a consistant advantage it will be used in competition. Competition would spread the build to be used more in matches. If the dire wolf gets a trial champion mech that uses the same build thats the worse thing to happen.

except most of the hardpoints on the DW are mounted low, and it's maneuverability is horrible. Much like the Hex Stalker of Old, it will get it's licks in, but any decent flanker will destroy it with little effort because it it horribly unresponsive.

[Ursh]

If it's only different, and not better, then I'm glad I didn't spend any money on the clan package.

[Xarian]

It's nice to see Bishop in a good mood.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xarian, on 13 June 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

It's nice to see Bishop in a good mood.

lies!

Ursh, on 13 June 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

If it's only different, and not better, then I'm glad I didn't spend any money on the clan package.

in a F2P FPS setting one really cannot make one faction "better" than another. Unfortunately, balance, is required.

[Piney II]

Well said in your OP, Bishop.

From just the little taste last night, I know I'll need to up my game a bit to get the most out of the Clan mechs I have. At first blush, it appears that PGI did some good work in getting the balance close. There will be tweaks, of course, but that's the natural order of things.

My prime take-away is the introduction of the Clan mechs will breathe new life into what has become a rather stale game.

[Bishop Steiner]

Piney, on 13 June 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Well said in your OP, Bishop.

From just the little taste last night, I know I'll need to up my game a bit to get the most out of the Clan mechs I have. At first blush, it appears that PGI did some good work in getting the balance close. There will be tweaks, of course, but that's the natural order of things.

My prime take-away is the introduction of the Clan mechs will breathe new life into what has become a rather stale game.

that is my hope too.

Yes it will need adjustments, but listening to the heavy handed verdicts of the Forum DoomSayer Club is just tiresome. Starting to think they should implement an IQ test to allow posting. f course, you can be smart and still be an idiot, but it would hopefully reduce the volume of the idiocy posted.

Where PGI screw up, they need to be called out on it. When they do right, give them credit. And People need to stop making sweeping, "factual" proclamations until...IDK.. after we actually HAVE the facts?

Anyhow, on first blush, for an unfinished build, it looked much more promising than I expected. Only after weeks of play time will the actual details really shake out.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 June 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

except most of the hardpoints on the DW are mounted low, and it's maneuverability is horrible. Much like the Hex Stalker of Old, it will get it's licks in, but any decent flanker will destroy it with little effort because it it horribly unresponsive.

ECM Kitfox says, "Nom Nom Nom Nom."

[Zolaz]

Technoviking, on 13 June 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Superior Mechwarrior Produces 2 Offspring with non Warrior. Neither Offspring is a Warrior. Useless waste. Could have harvested generations of Superior Warriors.

Yo, maybe they didnt teach you logic or rational thinking in the sybko. You said that trashborne were the best fighters and Kai showed you your taint. Even your best warriors acknowledged it. But, I guess you know best since you are a make believe warrior.

[CeeKay Boques]

Zolaz, on 13 June 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

Yo, maybe they didnt teach you logic or rational thinking in the sybko. You said that trashborne were the best fighters and Kai showed you your taint. Even your best warriors acknowledged it. But, I guess you know best since you are a make believe warrior.

Your reading ability is low. Kai was the "Superior Warrior" of my statement. The point was, once he died, his legacy went no where, adding weight to my earlier comment that stravag deprive humanity of the chance to truly advance.

[Bishop Steiner]

Technoviking, on 13 June 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

Your reading ability is low. Kai was the "Superior Warrior" of my statement. The point was, once he died, his legacy went no where, adding weight to my earlier comment that stravag deprive humanity of the chance to truly advance.

some things just aren't meant to be bottled for mass production. Look how much fail the Clans Eugenics have brought, with Widowmakers and Mongoose being absorbed, (Burrock in the future) The Smog Kitties to be annihilated (and Steel Vipers), Nova Cats chased from the fold, Wolf to split asunder.

Be it cheating to use my "crystal ball" for this? Unknown, but the Clans are full of bad genes.

[Livewyr]

After having my own vent thread that was rather embarrassing even before it was through. (It was fueled by inaccurate information from the Clans "What we know so far" thread, gleaned from Paul's mis-ordered words on the NGNG podcast, but that doesn't make it any less embarrassing.) Yesterday's PTS was a hell of a lot of fun.

When it comes to balance, things are a little iffy. I'm leary of the Meta vs DPS balance, for the same reason I don't like the LRM/ECM interaction. If the IS mechs are brawler types, Clans obliterate them. If the IS mechs are meta PP/FLD builds, they obliterate the clans more often than not. That said, I don't see many alternatives short of making the clans shoot nerf darts for their weapon tonnage.

Some things I would change, even if only after the 11 hour constant play, would be the torso twist range on the Dire Wolf. I don't mind that it moves like a pig, given the Medium Mech's weight in weapons, but being unable to turn the torso much, and not having maneuvering arms relegates it to the late-battlefield hunter and ranged sniper.

I would also drop the beam duration of the C-LPL, it's 6 tons, and for the two extra tons over the ERLL, it's only .2 duration less.. or roughly 15-20% quicker. Granted, it has 12.5 damage, so I wouldn't half it, but dropping it to 0.9 might make it a little more worth the weight.

I might also, though it is less important, increase the rate of LRM release for the C-LRMs. According to the XML that was posted briefly, they launch at .05s intervals, or about 1 second for an LRM20. I like that the stream effect lets it be dealt with better by AMS, compared to the heavier IS LRMs, but I don't think a single or even two AMS system(s) should be able to obliterate an entire LRM20 salvo.
--------------------------------------

But, considering how much content they are throwing at us in one fell swoop, only a few adjustments is actually spectacular. Obviously, this will be further fleshed out in the coming weeks. The extent of the JJ/Leg Damage adjustment will weigh heavily on the balance given that they are key aspects of the Poptart meta.

(Personal Anecdote, the TBR was a godsend to me.. Tough to build with, and doesn't 100% replicate my IS builds.. but it has replaced the CPLT C1, VTR-DS, CTF-3D, and SHD-2H builds.. with equal or faster speeds and equal or commensurate armor. It is my playstyles, all in one mech.)

[wanderer]

Pygar, on 13 June 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Triple AMS and ECM Kit Fox- the C variant arm pod that allows for this was one of the biggest surprises in the whole sneak peek. (Because it's an arm pod, any Kit Fox variant can suddenly have 3x AMS and ECM.)

Releasing just the arm pod also got around the incompatible legs- since the KFC has A-pods in them, equipment that is both moot and unavailable in MWO.

It does chicken right, and points to PGI for realizing it.

Now, we see if mixed play renders some chassis rarely used- the Clan light plays quite differenly from the IS one, the Timber Wolf S dominates Clan heavy play, and IMHO not enough data to see if the Nova or Stormcrow find a niche in regular play. Likewise the Warhawk and Dire Wolf, fun though the latter is.

Sunday should be interesting, what with the second run on Test with more coding fixes. It'd be good if they also injected a large chunk of C-bills into Test accounts to let people buy/build on chassis the way they wanted to so we can see more creative energy going into builds.

[Livewyr]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 June 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

some things just aren't meant to be bottled for mass production. Look how much fail the Clans Eugenics have brought, with Widowmakers and Mongoose being absorbed, (Burrock in the future) The Smog Kitties to be annihilated (and Steel Vipers), Nova Cats chased from the fold, Wolf to split asunder.

Be it cheating to use my "crystal ball" for this? Unknown, but the Clans are full of bad genes.

Our "Bad Genes" are better than all but 3 that the IS can produce. (Kai, Phelan, and maybe Victor, are credits to the Inners' Fear.)

(Speaking of Crystal balls, I am pretty sure an important Steiner gets Stockholm syndrome with a Crusader Wolf.)

[Bishop Steiner]

Livewyr, on 13 June 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

Our "Bad Genes" are better than all but 3 that the IS can produce. (Kai, Phelan, and maybe Victor, are credits to the Inners' Fear.)

(Speaking of Crystal balls, I am pretty sure an important Steiner gets Stockholm syndrome with a Crusader Wolf.)

mmmmmmmmmmm.............. I can think of another Spheroid. This guy named.... Aleksandr Kerensky? Of course, his son was a flaming whackjob, so maybe not a great example after all.......

But pretty sure some guys named Morgan Kell, Hanse Davion, Theodore Kurita are also LOLing at you right now.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 June 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[Corbenik]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 June 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

except most of the hardpoints on the DW are mounted low, and it's maneuverability is horrible. Much like the Hex Stalker of Old, it will get it's licks in, but any decent flanker will destroy it with little effort because it it horribly unresponsive.

I agree wholeheartedly there , that is where teamwork needs to come into effect , So if you see a giant monster like that you focus fire and send its pilot to its Petri Dish. since its MechwarriorOnline not Mechwarrior of Duty Offline