28 replies to this topic

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Right now I'm hearing great things about IS vs stock Clan balance but we all know that won't be the reality once Pilot exp is taken into account. As it currently stands, unoptimized IS mechs are little more than fodder while they grind out the exp necessary to compete. Will IS mechs become fodder vs Clan mechs once they've fleshed them out?

[Ozric]

This and the fact that people were only playing around with their new Clan mechs during the test implies that they will be very strong indeed. You could even hear it in the streamers voices. The extra range by itself makes everything Clan better than IS.

A footnote of course is that Niko has said that the next test will include balance changes, so we'll have to see if PGI came to same conclusion. But with the state the game has been in, should we really be surprised if a little (temporary) P2W crept in with the cash cow Clan bonanza?

[Bishop Steiner]

Ozric, on 14 June 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

This and the fact that people were only playing around with their new Clan mechs during the test implies that they will be very strong indeed. You could even hear it in the streamers voices. The extra range by itself makes everything Clan better than IS.

A footnote of course is that Niko has said that the next test will include balance changes, so we'll have to see if PGI came to same conclusion. But with the state the game has been in, should we really be surprised if a little (temporary) P2W crept in with the cash cow Clan bonanza?

and yet, already we hear the cries that the IS FLD Meta is stronger.

Wouldn't it be nice to actually get to exhaustively test it out first, before making grand decrees? *sigh*

[Phlinger]

Yeah, start this topic again a month after Clans release and the feedback will actually be closer to accurate.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Ronyn, on 14 June 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

Yeah, start this topic again a month after Clans release and the feedback will actually be closer to accurate.

Or since PGI has complete control over the test server, why don't they bump up clan pilot xp to mastery and do it for Sunday? Since I'm still on the fence, it's making me a tad nervous they're testing only the stock versions.

Edited by lockwoodx, 14 June 2014 - 09:42 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 June 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

and yet, already we hear the cries that the IS FLD Meta is stronger.

Wouldn't it be nice to actually get to exhaustively test it out first, before making grand decrees? *sigh*

because it is, IS still ahs the better pinpoint. so taht amy balance stuff out, a bit. Also, in terms of pulselasers the IS still ahs the better pinpoint, but for this they need to get closer. but IS pusle lasers burn only 0,6 secs makign them very high pinpoint lasers compared to the Clanner lasers. example: CLPL: 1,3 secs burntime - what a joke. but the Clan pulselasers may get a buff, because int heir previous teststate they are a No go compared to what the Clanners ER Lasers have to offer.

[cSand]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 June 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

and yet, already we hear the cries that the IS FLD Meta is stronger.

Wouldn't it be nice to actually get to exhaustively test it out first, before making grand decrees? *sigh*

Lol
what did you expect Bishop?

People fear change and anything new. Hence all the crying

A lot of people would rather we all have the same mech, with the same weapons, and RNG damage. All in the name of a nice fluffy even playing field for everyone, where nobody's feelings can get hurt

Edited by cSand, 14 June 2014 - 09:43 AM.

[Phlinger]

lockwoodx, on 14 June 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

Or since PGI has complete control over the test server, why don't they bump up clan pilot xp to mastery and do it for Sunday? Since I'm still on the fence, it's making me a tad nervous they're testing only the stock versions.

Even if they did that, people are still learning the ins and outs of Clan tech, the game will need a bit for the dust to clear before we see the truly effective builds spring out of the woodwork. Niko also said in the 2nd Clan test we will have some changes done, which changes we don't know yet. If they modified some weapons systems, we'll need to relearn them again even after a full day of testing.

GXP will give you 'some' idea, but not much. the Clan mechs play differently than current IS mechs.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

cSand, on 14 June 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Lol
what did you expect Bishop?

People fear change and anything new. Hence all the crying

A lot of people would rather we all have the same mech, with the same weapons, and RNG damage. All in the name of a nice fluffy even playing field for everyone, where nobody's feelings can get hurt

I'll take the flame bait here ^ and respond, because PGI's the one who decided they would mix IS and Clan mechs together. That means from an experienced objective point of view they better balance them properly or else you'll hear some genuine "crying" from the causal community over my concerns about proper testing. The "competitive community" naturally sees the crazy potential and is trying to keep it things on the down low.

A huge worry of mine is that players who stick with IS mechs will be stomped even harder than they normally are causing a P2W situation and lost participants from IS players who feel they can't genuinely compete once Clan pilot trees are fleshed out. Clan mechs are suppose to bring players back, so it's my hopes they don't make players feel there's no point in participating against them. That's why this thread is asking for opinions of players who've tested them.

Ronyn, on 14 June 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Even if they did that, people are still learning the ins and outs of Clan tech, the game will need a bit for the dust to clear before we see the truly effective builds spring out of the woodwork. Niko also said in the 2nd Clan test we will have some changes done, which changes we don't know yet. If they modified some weapons systems, we'll need to relearn them again even after a full day of testing.

GXP will give you 'some' idea, but not much. the Clan mechs play differently than current IS mechs.

Good to hear.

[Mcgral18]

You can already elite the mechs out if you have the GXP. Might as well throw your premium on as well if you don't have enough EXP. These test servers reset their stats.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Mcgral18, on 14 June 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

You can already elite the mechs out if you have the GXP. Might as well throw your premium on as well if you don't have enough EXP. These test servers reset their stats.

Does the GXP spent come from your live account tho?

[levitas]

Lily from animove, on 14 June 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

because it is, IS still ahs the better pinpoint. so taht amy balance stuff out, a bit. Also, in terms of pulselasers the IS still ahs the better pinpoint, but for this they need to get closer. but IS pusle lasers burn only 0,6 secs makign them very high pinpoint lasers compared to the Clanner lasers. example: CLPL: 1,3 secs burntime - what a joke. but the Clan pulselasers may get a buff, because int heir previous teststate they are a No go compared to what the Clanners ER Lasers have to offer.

The shorter burn isn't really a pinpoint advantage. The big deal about shorter burn times is that IS mechs can do a much better job torso twisting, because they aren't obligated to sit there with the lasers still burning and take damage wherever the enemy mech wants to put it.

[101011]

lockwoodx, on 14 June 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

Does the GXP spent come from your live account tho?

Neg, no changes in the PTS are applied to the live account. Spend away!

[cSand]

lockwoodx, on 14 June 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

I'll take the flame bait here ^ and respond, because PGI's the one who decided they would mix IS and Clan mechs together. That means from an experienced objective point of view they better balance them properly or else you'll hear some genuine "crying" from the causal community over my concerns about proper testing. The "competitive community" naturally sees the crazy potential and is trying to keep it things on the down low.

Ah yes, the "competitive community" - no matter what happens, they will min/max their way to ultra builds, and that is that - standard competitive gaming style (tedious and boring?). You can't combat that, you can't balance it away. The problem there is only major concern is winning by any means, and in a game where you can customize as much as this, there will always be certain ways to build your mech that provide the highest damage to least effort ratio. This behaviour is the same, across the board, in every multiplayer game.

Obviously you are right in some respects, where some balancing changes will be needed for the other, larger proportion of people who play this game to enjoy it. Natural course when introducing a huge amount of new content to the game.

But they haven't even got out of the gate yet, and people are already handwringing and calling for nerfs and freaking out (lots people who haven't even played, just watched the videos). I for one did not notice a significant increase in difficulty fighting clan mechs using my IS mech... and I'm hardly a spectacular player.

As usual though, the doom and gloom crowd is the loudest and most outspoken

Edited by cSand, 14 June 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

cSand, on 14 June 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Ah yes, the "competitive community" - no matter what happens, they will min/max their way to ultra builds, and that is that - standard competitive gaming style (tedious and boring?). You can't combat that, you can't balance it away. The problem there is only major concern is winning by any means, and in a game where you can customize as much as this, there will always be certain ways to build your mech that provide the highest damage to least effort ratio. This behaviour is the same, across the board, in every multiplayer game.

Obviously you are right in some respects, where some balancing changes will be needed for the other, larger proportion of people who play this game to enjoy it. Natural course when introducing a huge amount of new content to the game.

But they haven't even got out of the gate yet, and people are already handwringing and calling for nerfs and freaking out (lots people who haven't even played, just watched the videos). I for one did not notice a significant increase in difficulty fighting clan mechs using my IS mech... and I'm hardly a spectacular player.

As usual though, the doom and gloom crowd is the loudest and most outspoken

It's not "doom and gloom" so much as, "lets encourage them to get it right before it goes live."

[cSand]

lockwoodx, on 14 June 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

It's not "doom and gloom" so much as, "lets encourage them to get it right before it goes live."

I think it will take it going live before a lot of potential issues are revealed . I do agree though

[Ozric]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 June 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

and yet, already we hear the cries that the IS FLD Meta is stronger.

Wouldn't it be nice to actually get to exhaustively test it out first, before making grand decrees? *sigh*

You just wanted to use the phrase grand decrees didn't you?

[A banana in the tailpipe]

101011, on 14 June 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Neg, no changes in the PTS are applied to the live account. Spend away!

Even better, then PGI can give everyone 50,000 GPXspacebucks to spend freely and test it. Tons of seasoned MMO studios give out free gear/Credits on test servers to properly test PvP aspects before they go live.

Edited by lockwoodx, 14 June 2014 - 11:54 AM.

[Wintersdark]

lockwoodx, on 14 June 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Right now I'm hearing great things about IS vs stock Clan balance but we all know that won't be the reality once Pilot exp is taken into account. As it currently stands, unoptimized IS mechs are little more than fodder while they grind out the exp necessary to compete. Will IS mechs become fodder vs Clan mechs once they've fleshed them out?

Many did master their clan mechs - there's no reason not to dump your GXP on them on the test server, after all, and us long time player sorts have boatloads of otherwise worthless GXP.

[101011]

lockwoodx, on 14 June 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Even better, then PGI can give everyone 50,000 GPXspacebucks to spend freely and test it. Tons of seasoned MMO studios give out free gear/Credits on test servers to properly test PvP aspects before they go live.

Yes, they really should. Thankfully, I got by with selling my IS junk for ~15 million C-Bills.