151 replies to this topic

[H Seldon]

I've actually died more times in the last two days from LRMs than I have the last 2 years combined (excluding the LRM issue a year or so ago). What I'm noticing is that LRMs are hitting primarily CT. Watching other mechs I'm noticing the same thing. Torso twisting does nothing to spread the damage. So other than LRMs hitting mostly CT, I think they are in a pretty good spot. Nice dying from something different for a change.

Edited by H Seldon, 19 June 2014 - 03:56 PM.

[JohnnyWayne]

Silverlance, on 18 June 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

I know I'm not the only one. But the amount of LRMs before Clan Mechs was bad. Now it's three times as bad. And something needs to be done to quell the amount of mechs allowed into a match that can boat LRM systems and 2-3k+ rounds of ammo.

Until 30 minutes ago I smiled about you. But now **** just got serious. We waited 13 mintues doing nothing else than watching lrm go up and down, then we stormed in and won. Fun... NOT. God that was even worse than being stomped. Nerf the **** out of them and jumpjets and lets see where the meta goes to.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 19 June 2014 - 04:01 PM.

[Kampfer]

Blue doqyn, on 19 June 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Meta players have to remember that that 1.5 tons for an AMS is really good if you got a whole 12 man team running AMS. If you have a Kit Fox with 3 AMS, that is a lot of LRMs shot down. Got the 9S Tbolt? that's 2 AMS. ECM is good to have, but AMS helps not only yourself, but the team.

So what you are trying to say is that even though I am doing less pew pew or dakka dakka It will still help my TEAM win?

[Wolfways]

This thread (and the many others like it) prove one thing.

MWO, "The thinking persons shooter". It really isn't

[Graugger]

LRMs need a buff not a friggin nerf.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Graugger, on 19 June 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

LRMs need a buff not a friggin nerf.

LRMs need pretty much nothing.

[Wolfways]

LordKnightFandragon, on 19 June 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

LRMs need pretty much nothing.

Yeah, now people can be happy that they've pretty much removed LRM's from the game other than maybe the really low ELO range.

[Abivard]

I no longer feel the need to equip AMS on all my mechs.

I no longer feel that arty and airstrikes are worth taking unless one has 3 or 4 module slots, even then I will take only one or the other.

LRM's are not viable in solo drops unless one is sucked into beginners range games.

LRM's when part of a dedicated well played premade might make things rough for average solo players.

Congrats PGI there are three systems you have nerfed into practical uselessness at any skill level above the cadet/beginner/underhive category player..

[wanderer]

MischiefSC, on 18 June 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

No I didn't. Not UACs, no PPCs, not large lasers. Only SRMs a little. Not MLs save for sniper-heavy matches.

You're trying to make false comparisons between LRMs and other weapons. You can't - they have a few unique factors. Which is great! They should! They need indirect fire. They're pretty well balanced. IS LRMs are very well balanced.
Clan LRMs though are too fast and focus too tight.

They actually fire at the same speed and clustering as a small-tube IS LRM launcher. People normally lob shots out of 10,15,even 20 tube hardpoints.

Try a Cataphract-2X with it's 4-tube hardpoints and you get... well, very similar results to Clan launchers. They are also tremendously vulnerable to AMS fire- dual AMS + overload will cancel out pretty much every Clan launcher on the field, never mind the Kit Fox.

Did I mention there's plenty of dual AMS 'Mechs from the Atlas-K, down through the freebie Thunderbolt and humble Locust out there that can thereby ream Clan LRMs utterly? Try it some time. It's hilarious, long as you're not the one using LRMs.

Edited by wanderer, 19 June 2014 - 11:14 PM.

[Varik Ronain]

I do not want to insult the players who are having issues with LRMs but you have got to know that the really competative players and units have no issues with them. They are non factors in the high end 12 man scene. I mean really look at the last tourney as an example. You have to be doing something wrong if they are such an issue period. I blame PGI partly for not making it easier for people to understand when they are narced; couple that with the fact some people are very good with dropping a UAV. Look the mid to lower elo matches tend to be everyone grouping up in a deathball in some semblance of cover and hill humping/sniping and lurming. If I drop a UAV on top of you no one will be able to even see it is there because you are too close for it to show up. When this happens LRMs start landing on you with no apparent spotter... people have called me a LRM hacker even for this. If you cannot see a spotter and the rain is coming and you cannot figure out why you are either narced or under a UAV. Even if you have that little blue ECM eye saying you are "protected" you can be rained on while under a UAV.

If you are in a safe place the best thing you can do is power down your mech. While powered down LRMs cannot lock on to you (excluding them being close enough to pick you up with bap) This works while under a UAV or even while narced. No signal to lock onto means people like me cannot fire indirectly at you.

[Kilo 40]

Varik Ronain, on 20 June 2014 - 01:32 AM, said:

I do not want to insult the players who are having issues with LRMs but you have got to know that the really competative players and units have no issues with them. They are non factors in the high end 12 man scene.

That's because none of them use LRMs. not because they have some super 1337 skillz.

[Wolfways]

Kilo 40, on 20 June 2014 - 01:41 AM, said:

That's because none of them use LRMs. not because they have some super 1337 skillz.

They aren't used in competitive matches because LRM's are not useful against coordinated teams of players who know how to use terrain for cover.

If by "super 1337 skillz" you mean the ability to completely negate LRM's without using all the countermeasures, then yes they do have super 1337 skillz.
I guess i must have the same skills too actually as i'm rarely bothered by LRM's, but i only drop in PUG's and i'm certainly not high ELO...maybe mid ELO range. So if someone is getting killed by LRM's they are not good players and are low ELO, there is no other explanation. Maybe they need to practice more instead of running to the forums to try to get an already very situational and generally bad weapon nerfed more.

Once you know the maps you will be able to travel without "hiding" and will wonder why you ever felt the need to equip ECM, AMS, or any other countermeasure. But just like any other skill it may take time to learn.

[JohnnyWayne]

To be honest, the issue I had with LRMs were not LRMs. It was NARC. Once narced (especially on certain maps like caustic) you have no place to dive into cover. NARC actually needs to fall off after some salvos again.

[Mizore]

One of the major problems is the lack of dropweight limits and also that most people refuse to take AMS in order to carry more weapons.

No dropweight limits -> masses of heavy and assault LRM-boats -> masses of LRMs -> masses of slow and easy to hit targets -> no AMS -> PROFIT $$$

[Varik Ronain]

JohnnyWayne, on 20 June 2014 - 02:24 AM, said:

To be honest, the issue I had with LRMs were not LRMs. It was NARC. Once narced (especially on certain maps like caustic) you have no place to dive into cover. NARC actually needs to fall off after some salvos again.

A big reason for the LRM hate is most people dont even know they are narced unless they are in a premade and on teamspeak. Sometimes the best answer is to simply power down your mech really.

[Kilo 40]

Wolfways, on 20 June 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

They aren't used in competitive matches because LRM's are not useful against coordinated teams of players who know how to use terrain for cover.

If by "super 1337 skillz" you mean the ability to completely negate LRM's without using all the countermeasures, then yes they do have super 1337 skillz.
I guess i must have the same skills too actually as i'm rarely bothered by LRM's, but i only drop in PUG's and i'm certainly not high ELO...maybe mid ELO range. So if someone is getting killed by LRM's they are not good players and are low ELO, there is no other explanation. Maybe they need to practice more instead of running to the forums to try to get an already very situational and generally bad weapon nerfed more.

Once you know the maps you will be able to travel without "hiding" and will wonder why you ever felt the need to equip ECM, AMS, or any other countermeasure. But just like any other skill it may take time to learn.

They aren't used competitively because jump sniping is way easier than coordinating spotters running tag/narc/etc..

My point was that "really competative players" aren't super skilled, its just that they always play in groups who all use the exact same weapons and tactics.

Also just to be clear, I know how to avoid lrms, that's because I run lrms. I also know how to avoid jump snipers as well. I was in no way saying lrms are op.

[Roadkill]

Lyoto Machida, on 19 June 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Hmm...I haven't seen it though I've been more judicious with my LRMs now because of the threat of losing lock quicker. I'm still sitting at 40% on my IS LRM15s but my CLRM15s are only at 36%.

My IS Artemis LRM-15 sits at 37.77% but my new Clan LRM-15 (no Artemis) sits at 40.92%.

For me it's a playstyle thing. Clan Mechs are faster and more maneuverable than their IS counterparts (except for lights, but those are typically spotters not LRM boats) so it's easier to get them into proper position to fire. I'm also carrying a nearly full payload of other weapons along with the LRMs, so I spend more effort getting into position to use those weapons as well.

Basically, it's just proving to me that what I've thought all along is true. LRMs shouldn't be used as stand-off weapons from behind cover. They're approach weapons and brawl support weapons. If you're using them at range from behind a hill, you're a waste of Mech space on your team.

The problem is that most IS missile Mechs can't carry enough of them and still carry a good payload of other weapons so they get boated, and boated poorly. Clan Mechs encourage you to use LRMs the way you should have been using them all along - as just another part of your arsenal, not as the focus of your entire Mech.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

LRMs need a nerf big time. AMS is useless, and brawling isn't possible.

[Varik Ronain]

lockwoodx, on 20 June 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

LRMs need a nerf big time. AMS is useless, and brawling isn't possible.

You cant even give a reason or even explain your position on this. You just QQ and beg PGI for even more nerfs. I mean seriously?! You are fine with all the front loaded damage that poptarting can do to you with out a screaming warning or a lot of time to find cover?

[Lyoto Machida]

lockwoodx, on 20 June 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

LRMs need a nerf big time. AMS is useless, and brawling isn't possible.