335 replies to this topic

[Red Legs Greaves]

So since I just bought my Stormcrow and my unit happens to be IS merc unit am I not going to be able to run with my unit? If that's the case I might as well stop playing now. I get that you're to trying to get the story of the clan invasion in there but it seems like you might have just tricked a lot of people into paying for something they won't be able to use. You might want to clarify this as I won't be buying anything until I find out that I can actually use it.

[Threat Doc]

TheCaptainJZ, on 18 June 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

There was talk some time ago about possibly requiring MC to create a merc unit to curb this behavior. I also think they planned to make it so that the pool could not be given all to one player somehow. Bryan wrote a bunch about "Association" back last fall and some other posts elsewhere. Don't know where they all are now.

I linked the Command Chair in my post, above, for one of them, and then the Merc Corps stuff should be at... http://mwomercs.com/...re-association/ .

Nothing's been written to express otherwise, I'm afraid. For Union-Class DropShips, it will cost 18.88m C-Bills per person across a full company, twelve people. However, Bryan and/or Russ also expressed they were looking into the other DropShips, such as Leopard and Overlord-Class, and the Leopard was recently seen in DevVlog #4. The per-MechWarrior cost on a Leopard would come out to be 56.94m C-Bills each across four people, and the Overlord would be 10.97m C-Bills each across 36 people.

A faction (Merc, Loyalist, or Unit) forming up would only be able to deploy those who are assigned to a DropShip -those who paid or, if only a few people paid, those who didn't pay but are, rather, assigned.

It makes sense to me, to ensure each person in a faction has an actual stake, to pay for a berth on a DropShip.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 19 June 2014 - 07:32 AM.

[DevilCrayon]

Are canon unit names going to be blacklisted? All of them? Or just the Big Names?

When you get around to it compiling a list, please share it with us.

[Roland]

DevilCrayon, on 18 June 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

Are canon unit names going to be blacklisted? All of them? Or just the Big Names?

When you get around to it compiling a list, please share it with us.

Basically every canon unit name is blacklisted.

Or at least, that's what the plan was back in 2011 or whenever they first told us we were gonna be able to make units.

[Threat Doc]

Red Legs Greaves, on 18 June 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

So since I just bought my Stormcrow and my unit happens to be IS merc unit am I not going to be able to run with my unit? If that's the case I might as well stop playing now. I get that you're to trying to get the story of the clan invasion in there but it seems like you might have just tricked a lot of people into paying for something they won't be able to use. You might want to clarify this as I won't be buying anything until I find out that I can actually use it.

I don't think that's it at all. If I don't miss my guess, you'll play games with your faction in CW, and you'll be restricted, in accordance with your faction and whatever limitations PGI places on Community Warfare -including potentially loosening them at a later time- on what you can take. However, you'll also have the PUG aspect that will allow you to take, basically, whatever you want. In his OP, I'm pretty sure Paul is saying that, if you want to play a Clan 'Mech in a PUG fight, you're going to be playing with an entire team of Clan 'Mechs. If you're playing against a team of IS 'Mechs, whatever restrictions there are for playing as such will be set in place -the Clan 'Mechs are balanced, but are exponential factors against IS 'Mechs, and so are not entirely balanced- and you'll go play. If you play Clans-vs-Clans, you may, eventually get to play a Star, Binary, or Trinary against a similarly sized force. If you get to play IS-vs-IS, it's just like the PUG games we were playing up until yesterday.

However, for faction warfare in CW, you'll play within the restrictions of your faction, whether it is House, Clan, whatever part of space you're in, what sort of Loyalty Points you'll have, etc.

In short, I've not read ANYTHING that makes me believe players who've made Clan 'Mech purchases are going to be kept from playing those 'Mechs, but will be restricted based on the overall mode of play -Clan-vs-Clan, IS-vs-IS, Clan-vs-IS, the game mode, the map, etc.

Having played roughly ten matches, today and this evening, against Clan 'Mechs, and with Clan 'Mechs on my side, I will rebuff what others have been saying all day about how "incredibly well-balanced" Clan 'Mechs are. Yes, if it were Clan-vs-Clan, I'm sure they're beautifully balanced. In a fight where you have, say, six Clan 'Mechs and six Inner Sphere 'Mechs on a side, equal weight classes, then yes it's a relatively fair fight. However, a full Star of Clan 'Mechs should face off against two Lances of IS 'Mechs to make things even. For EACH Clan 'Mech above that threshold, however, placed into the game, the odds of the team with the higher number of Clan 'Mechs winning is exponentially higher. Even if damages have been restricted, more weapons, higher ranges, lower heat, higher overall armor, higher speed, etc., etc., still make Clan 'Mechs so imbalanced against IS 'Mechs as to be laughable.

Now, while I know there are tactics to be learned and this was only my first day against Clans, so I have some way to go to improve, as yet, I also know that Clan 'Mechs not piloted within the rules of Zellbrigen, or driven by happy-shiny-ADD-twitchers, do not lend much hope to Inner Sphere die-hards or veterans of the game universe who really want this game to succeed. Thus, we NEED to have the separations in the MM, and limitations on Clan Tech vs IS Tech, otherwise you're looking at a game with a population the size of the old Leagues, about 1/100th the population that actually purchased the game, or about 73,000 active people all-told.

Get repair and rearm and knockdown back in the game, stop allowing Light's to turn on a dime at top-speed, stop ECM from making 'Mechs invisible, rather than giving a penalty for use, and reduce the invisibility module to simply taking away lock-loss time for Basic and Advanced Target Decay, instead, and you'll be starting to get somewhere, PGI.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 19 June 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Red Legs Greaves]

So from what your saying I just paid for a mech to do pug games or go join a clan unit? I understand they're trying to keep it authentic battletech but if I can't use it when something that is actually a game comes out why should I even bother getting a clan mech? And if it does play out like that than the Kurita players should get used to running just Jenners, Kintaros and Dragons. I'm sure they would love that.

[Appogee]

I'm part of a Merc Unit.

Does this mean my Merc Unit can ONLY fight for the IS or the Clans?

Ie. we can't take contracts from both?

[Deathz Jester]

Paul Inouye, on 18 June 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

A Clarification:

On a side note, I've seen the rumblings of people thinking that mixed teams of Clan and IS 'Mechs will be the norm from here on out. This is not the case. Faction (IS/Clan) combat is a big part of Community Warfare as are the skirmishes between the Houses themselves and the Clans themselves. This requires additional work to the database, player data and match making systems and will come out at a later time.

Not to sound stupid, but.............could you clarify whether there will be soley Clan vs IS matchmaking in the future or if there is going to be Clan vs IS, IS vs IS, Clan vs Clan, etc.

[Gerhardt Jorgensson]

Merc units, by their very nature, should only be able to take contracts from Inner Sphere employers.

[Appogee]

Gerhardt Jorgensson, on 18 June 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

Merc units, by their very nature, should only be able to take contracts from Inner Sphere employers.

Is there any kind of unit that would be able to fight for both IS and Clan?

I have both "sets" of Mechs. I realise I can PUG in either - but that got old a year ago.

[Deathz Jester]

Appogee, on 18 June 2014 - 10:46 PM, said:

Is there any kind of unit that would be able to fight for both IS and Clan?

I have both "sets" of Mechs. I realise I can PUG in either - but that got old a year ago.

I didn't even think the Clanners employed mercenaries other than making a group to infiltrate the Innersphere, I know the Wolf's Dragoons are mercs, and secretly clanners, but I thought they fought soley for IS contractors.


idk. just seems like something they'd frown upon, employing someone else to do your fighting for you.

[N0MAD]

I dont think they really realize the full ramifications of this whole setup.
There are many points, the ability to abuse systems like the beginners bonus, people being able to be ripped of, the doorway to gold sellers, peoples mech stocks and what they can and cant use when choosing a faction.
Will they clarify these points before people spend more money on mechs they may or may not be able to use with the elusive CW.
Is there more than drawings and notes on paper napkins? are there any in depth details and if there are plans to address these problems why not give details.

[Asmosis]

Given that players own both clan and IS mechs right now, it stands to reason the only time these clan/IS group rules are employed is when doing actual combat drops.

It would be cool to have faction querks for each type of weapon, but rather than owning 15 different types of small lasers it should just be a modifier applied to them based on the faction your currently in.

Call it an invisible super module that applies a large number of bonuses/penalties or something if needed.

Also on C-bills.

I think people are overestimating what you can actually do with those cbills. 99% certain (based on the whole no trading thing/cash sale of stuff and other games) that you will not be able to get individual items like mechs or weapons out of it. You wont be seeing EVE level corporate management here.

Most likely it will be to buy clan/unit specific things like banners for forums, more player capacity, bidding on contracts etc.

Edited by Asmosis, 19 June 2014 - 01:08 AM.

[aniviron]

Paul Inouye, on 18 June 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

A Clarification:

On a side note, I've seen the rumblings of people thinking that mixed teams of Clan and IS 'Mechs will be the norm from here on out. This is not the case. Faction (IS/Clan) combat is a big part of Community Warfare as are the skirmishes between the Houses themselves and the Clans themselves. This requires additional work to the database, player data and match making systems and will come out at a later time.

This matters so much. It's far more important than you might think- while right now gameplay is a random deathmatch, faction fighting would mean that each fight is one identifiable side against another, even if the gameplay doesn't change and the outcome alters nothing. As an additional plus, smaller buckets of players on your team in the matchmaker (i.e. I would be matched with Wolves) means actually getting to know some of the players you're dropping with.

[Lily from animove]

So we do not need the previously annoucned massively huge amount of C-Bills to start a unit? sounds gooooood.

Also, faction/IS combat may be divided, but that would not have to count for the mechs, maybe they use the salvaged ones of the other faction. But ok, it would still look awkward if a clan is going with 90% IS mechs and the other way around.

Edited by Lily from animove, 19 June 2014 - 04:04 AM.

[Red Legs Greaves]

It seems to me that factioning everyone up is going to cause many problems. First people don't like being forced one way or the other, I for one am going to angry if I have to pick between my IS friends or running my awesome new clan mech. Second if this forced factions does happen there isn't enough players to make the factions even near competitive. No offense to my Liao friends but from what I've seen in game and on the forums there isn't that many of you and there is no way you would be able to compete with House Davion. And what happens when everyone who ordered clans mechs goes clans ad then you end up with such a one sided game just based on population that no one wants to play. PGI seems to have all these grand ideas, but they don't have the population base to do anything like this. Also PGI thanks for this vague final paragraph, but fortunately these plans won't happen for years so I guess I have nothing to worry about.

[Threat Doc]

Well, PGI, I told you so, YET AGAIN! Develop the game for the veterans, and then have us build the community. Here we go with more potential damage control...

Red Legs Greaves, on 18 June 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:

So from what your saying I just paid for a mech to do pug games or go join a clan unit? I understand they're trying to keep it authentic battletech but if I can't use it when something that is actually a game comes out why should I even bother getting a clan mech? And if it does play out like that than the Kurita players should get used to running just Jenners, Kintaros and Dragons. I'm sure they would love that.

You're one of those people that will always find a reason to be inconsolable, won't you. It's obvious, from your posts, that you don't understand BattleTech, you don't have ANY understanding of what PGI are trying to do, here, which absolutely NO OTHER GAME has done as extensively as BattleTech, and which PGI are attempting to emulate, and third, you don't know how to read what was written.

So, let me address this from another angle... PGI are not going to sell you a bunch of Clan 'Mechs and then tell you that you cannot use them, except in very special circumstances, such as Community Warfare, which deals with contracts and warfare between Inner Sphere factions, and the Inner Sphere and the Clans. It would be a foolish business decision for them to make it impossible for you to play with your faction in Public Matches, like we have, now, but restrictions MUST be in place with fighting in Faction Matches, such as in Community Warfare. So, you will be able to play your newly purchased Clan 'Mechs, but if you are with an Inner Sphere faction AND playing in a Faction Match, you will not be able to do so. Later down the road, as Clan 'Mechs begin to become more prominently available in Inner Sphere factions, according to the lore, these restrictions will be loosened up.

This will be the same for Faction Matches where particular 'Mechs are involved. Every 'Mech will be available on the market of every House and Periphery State, but depending where you are, how many Loyalty Points you have for the faction producing the 'Mech you wish to purchase, etc., 'Mechs will become more or less expensive. Again, these restrictions will likely be lightened up in the future.

Now, for those of you who are bashing the lore... a LOT of us, a sizeable portion of the BattleTech/MechWarrior community, have been wanting a game like this, and more, since 1995, when it was discovered that computers and internet communication were possible. Just because YOU don't want to play it, doesn't mean there aren't a LOT of folks out there who are willing to go without it. If you guys ***** and complain enough that it means the end of Community Warfare, a LOT of people who want Community Warfare, and more, are going to find a way to make you pay. If we get ours, and you get to keep yours, that which already exists for this game, then everyone should be happy; don't take away my potential happiness and joy for this game because those of you who couldn't care less about this game's HUGE history want to be HUGE {Richard Cameron}'s.

Appogee, on 18 June 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

I'm part of a Merc Unit.

Does this mean my Merc Unit can ONLY fight for the IS or the Clans?

Ie. we can't take contracts from both?

The Clans never employ mercenaries, at least not until the Red Archer incident WAYYYY down the road. Mercenaries should NEVER work for the Clans, almost never work for the Free Rasalhague Republic, and are heavily vetted before they work for the Draconis Combine. The Clans do not work contracts.

Iron Harlequin, on 18 June 2014 - 11:49 PM, said:

I didn't even think the Clanners employed mercenaries other than making a group to infiltrate the Innersphere, I know the Wolf's Dragoons are mercs, and secretly clanners, but I thought they fought soley for IS contractors.

idk. just seems like something they'd frown upon, employing someone else to do your fighting for you.

The Clans will not hire mercenaries for this very reason. Besides, they have no holdings in the Inner Sphere, or their own homeworlds, that they cannot put forces on to defend. The reason mercs are so heavily employed by House and Periphery State holdings is because those places are far over-extended, and they are incapable of producing 'Mechs and MechWarrior's fast enough to set them in place so mercs are not a requirement. With hiring mercs to hold these places, that's even less money in the coffers to perform the former.

Wolf Dragoons, yes, are a Clan off-shoot unit, sent to the Inner Sphere to gather intelligence on each of the five main Houses, strengths, weaknesses, etc. However, when the Clans do invade, based on intelligence provided by the Dragoons, and their attacks are so very devastating, the Dragoons, having lived in the Inner Sphere for 43 years before the invasion begins, and now recognizing it as their home, goes against the Clans and helps the Inner Sphere to stop them in their tracks. Not only is it their new home, but they recognize in the current Clans a sort of barbarian blood lust of their own, a major change from before the time when the Dragoons left to their assignment in the IS, and determine the current Clans are NOT what they used to be.

Lily from animove, on 19 June 2014 - 04:01 AM, said:

So we do not need the previously annoucned massively huge amount of C-Bills to start a unit? sounds gooooood.

Also, faction/IS combat may be divided, but that would not have to count for the mechs, maybe they use the salvaged ones of the other faction. But ok, it would still look awkward if a clan is going with 90% IS mechs and the other way around.

No one said anything about not needing huge amounts of cash to purchase DropShips to get your unit on the move. Paul DID announce that faction leaders would simply be able to click on the faction tab in the MWO interface and build their merc unit from there. I believe, since nothing to the contrary has been announced, as yet, that a unit will still need to purchase a DropShip to be able to participate in contracts. The more DropShips you have, the more contracts you can pick up and/or the more forces you can land for a single contract.

I'm sure salvaged Clan 'Mechs will come into the equation at some point, but no announcement has been made about that, either. Clans should NEVER mix First Line and Second Line 'Mechs, so no IS and Omni's in the same grouping.

Red Legs Greaves, on 19 June 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

It seems to me that factioning everyone up is going to cause many problems. First people don't like being forced one way or the other, I for one am going to angry if I have to pick between my IS friends or running my awesome new clan mech. Second if this forced factions does happen there isn't enough players to make the factions even near competitive. No offense to my Liao friends but from what I've seen in game and on the forums there isn't that many of you and there is no way you would be able to compete with House Davion. And what happens when everyone who ordered clans mechs goes clans ad then you end up with such a one sided game just based on population that no one wants to play. PGI seems to have all these grand ideas, but they don't have the population base to do anything like this. Also PGI thanks for this vague final paragraph, but fortunately these plans won't happen for years so I guess I have nothing to worry about.

No one will be forced to join a faction; there are three levels of play that were announced last September by Bryan, and the video for it has already been linked in this thread, so I'm not doing it, again.

Mercenary - these are your lone wolves, able to fill holes in matches, play on Solaris, etc.
Loyalist - these are House and Clan players thrown into one huge bucket, together, the least serious bunches of people
Unit - these are your mercenary groups, like my Armageddon Unlimited, who take contracts with Inner Sphere Houses, against other Inner Sphere Houses, merc groups, and the Clans. The Clans do not hire mercs. No forcing.

Being angry about having to choose between your faction friends and your Clan 'Mech... well, life is all about choices, and they are always uncomfortable. SUCK IT UP AND DRIVE ON!!! For me, it was NEVER a question. I may purchase and drive a Timberwolf in the future, but that's because they're beautiful on the inside and out, have a VERY cool control layout, and the sound effects are beyond awesome, but I am a mercenary of the Inner Sphere, so I harbored no delusions about EVER purchasing one of the Clan packs so recently offered. Anyone who did not understand what was going on in the game, who failed to avail themselves of hundreds of pages, videos, and information worthy of review concerning the BattleTech universe and what this game is about, deserve what you get because you purchased Clan 'Mechs. It's YOUR OWN FAULT, period.

PGI have expressed they are looking at putting controls in place to limit a storm of players from going over to the Clans, so that factions may remain relatively balanced, and that's something I'm sure you would AGREE NEEDS to happen so this game can remain viable. Frankly, PGI were really caught between a rock and a hard spot...

If they had gone with an earlier time period, it would have been Inner Sphere 'Mechs only, and all the Clan wanks wouldn't have been able to get their Clan 'Mechs, unless PGI made two distinct faction games -same game, one for each faction- for Clan players to play on their own, and then never the twain should meet.

Unfortunately, going with the game the way they have, there are a bunch of nOObs out there who are utterly clueless as to the history and lore of this game, and are heavily unwilling to invest themselves a little bit to find out what it's about, despite the fact PGI have expressed MULTIPLE times that the game has such, and so you have a bunch of whiners and complainers who have failed to avail themselves of information which is literally available in nearly every corner of the internet, and links to the main information are made available on nearly EVERY MWO-based unit web site, who want to do away with all of the lore and just have stompy robot combat. Read and learn about the BattleTech universe, even just the important basics, learn to live in the rules and structure PGI NEED to continue setting up for THIS game to continue functioning, or go away.

Either way, stop being Unreasonable Negative Nancy.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 19 June 2014 - 03:30 PM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Xeno Phalcon, on 18 June 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

many people have outright sold their IS stuff at this point.

Well that was dumb of them.

[Cimarb]

Paul Inouye, on 18 June 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...10#entry3481510

Spoiler

Unit Creation and Management Tools

To create a Unit, players will need to click the Faction tab in the main UI. On the Faction tab is a button labeled “Create Unit”. This is only available if the player is not part of a Unit.

• If the player is not part of a Unit, they will be prompted to name their Unit.
  
• After naming the Unit, the Unit Leader can set a Unit Tag.
  
• The Unit creator can now invite people to their Unit through their Friend List.
  
• Units can collect a communal C-Bill coffer through donations from its members.
  
• Units can create ranks and assign Unit management permissions to each rank.
  
• Units have their own Unit and Officer chat channels.

Unit Leader Privileges:

• Invite members.
  
• Kick members.
  
• Assign Ranks.
  
• Assign a member as the new Leader
  
• Create/Name ranks.
  
• Edit/Delete ranks.
  
• Order/Reorder ranks.
  
• View Unit coffer balance.
  
• View Unit coffer transaction log.
  
• View Officer Chat channel.
  
• Disband the Unit.
  
• Disbanding a Unit can only be done when there is only one player left in the Unit.
  
• Set MotD (Message of the Day)

NOTE: Unit Leader Privileges are locked and cannot be taken away.

Unit Leaders can assign the following Privileges to sub-ranks as they see fit:

Member Assignable Privileges (by the Unit Leader via Rank Privileges):

• Invite members.
  
• Kick members (Unit Leader is the only exception).
  
• Assign ranks.
  
• View Unit coffer balance.
  
• View Unit coffer transaction log.
  
• View Officer Chat channel.
  
• Set MotD (Message of the Day)

By default, the Unit will be populated with basic US military ranks.

Please note that “coffer” actions are for future feature support.

This is the initial feature set planned for Unit Creation and Management and is step 1 on the path to Community Warfare.

---------------------------------------------

A Clarification:

On a side note, I've seen the rumblings of people thinking that mixed teams of Clan and IS 'Mechs will be the norm from here on out. This is not the case. Faction (IS/Clan) combat is a big part of Community Warfare as are the skirmishes between the Houses themselves and the Clans themselves. This requires additional work to the database, player data and match making systems and will come out at a later time.

Any chance a link to this thread could be put in the OP?

Also, the last paragraph really worries me. Will we not be able to use our Clan mechs as mercenaries? Does it just mean we will have to fight for Clan objectives only if we use a Clan mech? Will we be forced to use all IS or all Clan mechs to play as a unit?

If this is the case, then why did you go through all of the effort of balancing the Clans to begin with? I think the balancing is great, and I see no reason why we should be forced to use one or the other to play with our friends.

[Cimarb]

Xeno Phalcon, on 18 June 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

If you guys are thinking that having mech types (Is or clan) locked to your faction in terms of CW you might as well put a fork in it now cause next they will be rumbling over faction oriented mechs (IE Kintaro and Dragon being kurita centric, ect ect).

This is very important, IMO. If you are going to restrict Clan vs. IS, it needs to also be restricted House vs. House and Clan vs. Clan.

Vertex99, on 18 June 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

So wait, does this mean IS players aren't going to be able to use Clan mechs and vice versa? Doesn't that go against what was said earlier and more importantly make a large amount the player base pretty upset, or does this mean there are going to be two matchmaking ques, "Community Warfare" and "Casual" where in CW, players have to use IS or Clan mechs based on their faction but have freedom in casual que? Wouldn't that make less people participate in CW because they don't want to be limited on what mechs they use, or is everyone made to participate in CW meaning if they are IS and bought Clan mechs, too bad for them, or would players have to choose both an an IS faction and a Clan faction and they participate in CW by what mech they choose when dropping in a match? What about Lone Wolves and Mercs? Would they just have free reign over mech choice? If so, then I imagine a large number if not most players would go that route so they're still able to use all of their mechs.

Some clarification on the clarification would be nice because I'm really confused.

So little clarification, even in the clarification... And they wonder why we have so many arguments happening all over the place...

Gerhardt Jorgensson, on 18 June 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

Merc units, by their very nature, should only be able to take contracts from Inner Sphere employers.

Wolf's Dragoons were mercenaries for decades yet they were called to return to Clan Wolf when the invasion was about to start. It isn't the mercenary title that is the issue - it is the "pay to fight" mentality that is the issue to Clans. If I want to represent a CGB version of Wolf's Dragoons, working alongside House Marik to provide support materials to the Clans "on the down low", I should be able to. Call me a mercenary, a Marik, or a Ghost Bear, but let me use my resources and skill to fight for what I think is important.

Iron Harlequin, on 18 June 2014 - 11:49 PM, said:

I didn't even think the Clanners employed mercenaries other than making a group to infiltrate the Innersphere, I know the Wolf's Dragoons are mercs, and secretly clanners, but I thought they fought soley for IS contractors.

idk. just seems like something they'd frown upon, employing someone else to do your fighting for you.

They were tasked to infiltrate the IS and decided that the best way to do so without blowing their cover was to be a mercenary unit, which allowed them to infiltrate all of the major Houses without suspicion.

When the invasion was about to happen, they were called back, but only a handful of them, including Natasha Kerensky, but not Jaime Wolf (both Bloodnamed Trueborn warriors), actually went back. The rest were young enough that they had little to no ties to the Clans, felt the IS was their home, and most were all free births anyways, so they would have been second-class members if they did return, instead of the most elite unit in the Inner Sphere like they were accustomed to being.