41 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

After the Clan release, I just do not see any reason to bring a single LRM launcher on any of my mech loadouts anymore, be it a 10 pack or 20. That goes double for Clan LRMs due to stagger fire. Before, a single LRM 10 or 15 as a support weapon had felt meaningful to bring along. The current proliferation of AMS + the AMS modules simply makes me feel anything less than LRM 40 deals such little amount of damage that it is just not worth the weight. Basically current gameplay is encouraging LRM boating more than ever, if people even pick LRMs in the first place.

One might argue that single large launcher can still go though the AMS umbrella and cause some shake, but why do that when I can bring an AC or PPC for the same weight and cause shake + big damage?

PGI, you are doing it wrong if you wish to discourage LRM boating.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 June 2014 - 09:44 PM.

[Wolfways]

Well they're certainly discouraging me from waiting for a Mad Dog

[Bishop Steiner]

I have been worried about this. so far it hasn't hit me too hard, but I have had matches........
(Then I have had others who told me that I drive a wicked Griffin)

[Mordin Ashe]

Yep, that radar reprivation and AMS overwhatever module should be dealt with in some way, right now both further cripple already poor weapon system.

[Koniving]

Honestly my twin SRM-6, 1 LRM-20 Timberwolf hasn't had any real trouble. Sometimes there's enough AMS to wipe out all the missiles and when there is I go for someone else.

It'd been doing pretty good for me.

[Kilo 40]

I never saw the reason to bring one launcher

[LordKnightFandragon]

Ooooorrr, perhaps PGI is trying to discourage LRM use to a degree to lessen boating. Instead of every game being LRM boats vs Poptarts....perhaps the new iteration of equipment is meant to persuade people to use other stuff...like, MLs, LL, AC and get away from the super god mode boating.

[l33tworks]

You guys are not factoring the sheer amount of damage they deliver, both in terms of, psychological damage, supressing you, changing your play style etc, and damaging your mech. No other weapon does this. People ignore taking most other damage but not LRMS.
On top of this the accuracy and how fast they can fire and damage mechs, LRMS are just too devastating not to have as many counters to it as possible. Even with expert players shooting at you you can easily make it accorss a field when PPCs or Acs or lasers are being shot at you, and you will come out with 90% health. If you get targeted by LRMS it just shredds you to death in seconds.

Boating Weapons of any type deals more damage obviously.

[Pygar]

Ya know....since there are so many ways to hose missiles these days....can we have something like smoke dispensers to screw over direct fire players too? Like really good ones we can use like, a lot?

"Wow, you didn't have a very good match in that Jager bro...what happened? Oh, they had smoke dispensers everywhere...couldn't get more than two shots off all match."

Yeah...I want that. Like now.

Edited by Pygar, 19 June 2014 - 10:36 PM.

[YueFei]

It'd be nice if AMS was much more efficient at shooting missiles that are locked onto you, but AMS was alot less efficient at shooting down missiles that are flying at your teammates.

I'd rather they overhaul indirect LRM fire so that it has a wide open spread. That way, massed LRMs don't obliterate 1 target without having the multiple LRM platforms gain LOS independently.

At the same time, make *direct* fired LRMs fire-and-forget. If you gain and hold lock with LOS throughout the entire missile flight, the clustering should be devastating. It's a risk vs reward issue. If you lose LOS part-way through the flight, the missiles will still home in, but the spread will loosen up.

Right now, LRM balance can swing waaay too wildly from useless to overwhelming just because there are too many factors that contribute to whether they work well or not. We've hashed over ECM countless times already. Massed-AMS is another factor. A teammate's AMS is often TWICE as effective as your own when dealing with missiles flying at you, because his AMS has double the amount of time to shoot at the missiles as they fly over his head and past him towards you.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

LordKnightFandragon, on 19 June 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

Ooooorrr, perhaps PGI is trying to discourage LRM use to a degree to lessen boating. Instead of every game being LRM boats vs Poptarts....perhaps the new iteration of equipment is meant to persuade people to use other stuff...like, MLs, LL, AC and get away from the super god mode boating.

That's not how it works. This kind of thing discourages versatile builds and encourages boating, since the only way to get through the active defenses is to overwhelm them with sheer volume of fire. Thus anything less than a boat that devotes truly massive amounts of tonnage solely to LRMs is hardly worth bringing, since said boats are the only way for them to remain effective.

[Abivard]

LRM's are obsolete weaponry on today's battlefield!

If LRM's are hurting you, it is a good sign you are in the underhive and belong there until you learn about the game better.

You are being dazzled by the flash- bang of LRM's with all their red lights and warning bells all the while ignoring the far deadlier threat that energy and ballistic weapons present.

Energy or ballistic mounted weapons can core you out before an LRM can even lock onto your mech, but you have no warning bells to tell you that, nor are they visually very impressive.

[Corbenik]

Koniving, on 19 June 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

Honestly my twin SRM-6, 1 LRM-20 Timberwolf hasn't had any real trouble. Sometimes there's enough AMS to wipe out all the missiles and when there is I go for someone else.

It'd been doing pretty good for me.

Running same Missile Loadout on my TBR and havent had too much trouble also, I sometimes for sake of teamwork bring my own Tag when im in Brawls but since sometimes the Pugs I Pug with are too derp to "R" my target ,But otherwise I haven't been hit too bad same as in PTS teamwork is even more essential and since this is a Team game I see no reason why the QQ I think the balance is just right when you have Threads about LRMS are too OP and Radar Derp makes LRMS useless, It means the teamwork or lack thereof is making you suck not the weapons or utilities at your disposal.

[GreyGriffin]

There was a strange and brief adaptive period that lasted maybe 6 hours while everyone got their AMS back out of the back of the closet. It reveals the real weakness - LRMs are completely obsolete if the other team is equipped against them. Between ECM and AMS, if the enemy team has put forth even a single ton per mech (I was about to say put forth any effort, but that's pretty generous), this many-ton, ammo-dependent weapon system that is useless at close range that requires teamwork, positioning, and the ability to actually use your battlegrid and read enemy positions to really get any mileage is pretty much useless.

I can't imagine the fierce QQing that would result if we could get Blue Shield as a module. But it's the same principle.

Edited by GreyGriffin, 19 June 2014 - 10:50 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kilo 40, on 19 June 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

I never saw the reason to bring one launcher

glad that your style should be what shapes the game. Several of my most successful builds run a single launcher, especially my Griffin.

[Bishop Steiner]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 19 June 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

That's not how it works. This kind of thing discourages versatile builds and encourages boating, since the only way to get through the active defenses is to overwhelm them with sheer volume of fire. Thus anything less than a boat that devotes truly massive amounts of tonnage solely to LRMs is hardly worth bringing, since said boats are the only way for them to remain effective.

Yup. LRM15 becomes useless, some players move on to different guns. The LRM dependent, centric, etc, will just bring more LRMs and brute force past the AMS and Modules.

Who gets hurt? Guys like me who had been enjoying a brief spell of being able to run balanced builds, like my PPC/LRM15/2xMlaser/2xSSRM2 Griffin.

Hasn't been obsoleted yet, but since ATM the module is then new Cap Accelorator/Seismic (aka must have) it is only a matter of time.

[El Bandito]

Let's hope PGI is keeping tabs on it because more mixed build is what they were (and many of us) striving for.

[General Taskeen]

Single LRM launchers are still useful in Stock Mode :-D

[KGB GRU]

Wolfways, on 19 June 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

Well they're certainly discouraging me from waiting for a Mad Dog

Never give up! Never surrender!

[Ngamok]

El Bandito, on 19 June 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

One might argue that single large launcher can still go though the AMS umbrella and cause some shake, but why do that when I can bring an AC or PPC for the same weight and cause shake + big damage?

Because not every mech can bring 2+2 or both at once. Also, if everyone on your team has a single LRM10,15,20 guess what you effectively become. I have a single LRM15 (or was it a 20) on my BNC-3S. I shoot it and when there is other LRMs also shooting at the same time roughly, mine get through as well easily. This was during the AMS range extension module. I have not really seen people taking AMS let alone the AMS overload module en mass.