349 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

InspectorG, on 07 October 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

You are stating mechs are either good or bad? Are there no average mechs?

Are you saying a definition of a good mech is one button win that doesnt need a learning curve?

Stick with a nail? Vs the USA? Thats a pretty exaggerated example.

I never said i did 1749 damage. More like 400-ish. And i use uav but less arty cuz im saving for a whale.

I never claimed to be beyond a mid-level MWo player, but i can get the Nova to work for me. Is it optimal? Dunno?
But i have a hard time saying its 'bad'. An all-flamer hunchback is bad. A Nova with 6 erml is fairly decent.

And average mech is a mech an average gamer can use properly, chat more with poeple out there and you recognize the average gamer is not able to handle a nova. Its too complicted to penallising for making mistakes. So when the average gamer can make other mechs work fine but not a nova, it is clearly a bad mech in comparison to other mechs.

A 6 erml Nova is decent? I don't think so. why because then the SC is clearly OP, because with 6 cerml a stormcrow works WAY better. Nova is a bad mech, alone by the HP/components. any decent loadout pilot will oneshot your limps off. 48HP is what a single giant sized arm has. Thats the average alpha most mediums and above come with. Which other medium has such a horrible geometry? None, others can at least very easily avoid eating the full laser beam. Nova not, too slow and big sized for a medium. A slightly wrong step, and you get crippled. Wait for the Fenris. then you see what a decent mech is, smr and medium lasers with proper speed and good hitboxes. CS is also at a decent speed and superior firepower for its size + can cool that firepower, unlike the Nova. But Nova is not in the decent mech field.

"Stick with a nail? Vs the USA? Thats a pretty exaggerated example."

No its not its the base extreme example for the logic people use here to argument.

The nova is a stick with a nail. its comared to a gun quite a bad weapon. And when some come and say: stick with nail sucks, then someone hosp in and says: but i killed someone eonce with that stcik and nail. But yet this diesn't makes the stick'n'nail a decent weapon.

decent mediums can wield some srm's or a propler labx/ac 10 with some backuplasersd and ammo. The nova can't.

lets compare soem mediums on "Nova level"

With Nova level I gonna make these mechs having the same speed (standard engine) and all maxed armor. And yet every IS medium has better hitboxes than a Nova.

Nova 15,43t podspace with maxed armor.

CDA 13,39 podspace, but yet the possibility to get XL and be a lot faster or make more tonnage free as well as FF and ES for additional tonnage possible. And this is a 10t ligher mech than the Nova.

BJ 14,93 tons free for customisation, still able to use FF ES and Xl eniges for savign weight or goign way faster. and its still 5 tons less than a Nova.

VND 14,93, same as above.

CN9 15,93 basically also what above is, just the same weight level.

HBK 15,93 same as CN.

TBT 15,93
GRF 16,43

KTO 16,43
WVR 16,43

SHD 16,43

thats the comparison to IS mechs, lets make a small break here. you see any of these mechs have the same podspace or just a bit below. Now on the other side, the nova still has 6,5 tons bound to 4 DHS and 5 JJ's. But this is the first reason, why the nova is bad.

Upgrading all these Engines to XL will free podspace of roughly the same amount. meaning those mechs WILL be on par if you would spend it on DHS and JJ. Yet additonal you can even upgrade FF and ES on the IS mechs. So the only advantage the Nova has is the survivability of its XL engine to troso destruction. and the better wepaons of clanners. But this is the point it also makes the Nova bad.
Why?
Well you are bound to these items. So wanna runa cool M or B build? Fail. Nova doesn't even have M hardpoints, whcih offers you one of the currently strongest weapons ingame: SRM's. And Ballistics? We cna put ballistics on the Nova, but a good ballistic loadout should at leats be 2 er or a single 10er. And here we have the problem. ther eis no podspace for 2x5 + valid ammo. There is also not a good amount of space for 10er and ammo. because after 10t of ballictsicsfor a 10er ther eis not much space for ammo and and some backup lasers and on a ballistic build you don't need additional heatsinks, but yet when going ballistics you are stuck with 4 tons of useless DHS. 4tons who would give you a valid energywepaon backup, or some additional ammo. so makign use of B hardpoints is not possible with good B wepaons at all. You are mostly stuck to baot energie weapons. Thats bad because low diversity low efficiency.

So whatever the nova can do, IS mechs can do it better. except anything above 6 lasers. So thats why the Nova is bad. Its more or less bound to be a limited IS mech level mech. Nova in terms of pitch and jaw angles is also just in the middlefield. some IS mediums have less, most have same or more. So nova is inferior to the most IS mediums as well.

And for overkill comparison, the SC: 22,86 free podspace. and this is after the engine is even upgraded to a faster one. On top of that some masterbrain decided the SC should have 130degree twistlevel (ok griffin too but GRF does not have clan advantages or the speed in my comparison chart), LAWL this mech is superior in any cas to ANY other medium. the raw numbers tell this and anyone piloting a SC having some brain will recognise that, feel that and use that for his own advantage. piloting a SC is entering easymode amongs the medium mechs. its my best k/d mech so far, 3,0 k/d. A horrible joke of imbalance.

and on top of this, without PGI having buffed IS mechs so far look at the QUIRK list: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ Green quirks all over the place on those IS mechs ontop of them already being better than the Nova.

Same for the SC, it either has positive or no quirks on its omnipods. Ok -10% armor in the head, wow what a joke as if headshots are common and this quirk would practically influence anything.

The nova on the other side. filled with many downsided quirks, especially on the arms that would play out the only one advantage the nova has over other mechs: baoting a massive amount of lasers. Soplaying the only strength of the novawhich is by heatscale already penalised enough gets even more penalised by quirks.

And so coming back to the Nova: The mech is bad its not even on average, bad hitboxes and hardpoints, ALL other mediums have better ones. better free tonnage better customisation possibilities and hardpoint access. And when you as a pilot can make good matches on a Nova, you would be able to make better matcheds in ANY other medium mech the game offers. The Nova is useless when other (medium) pilots you face would have the same skillevel as you, because they would in most times outplay you in nearly any other medium mech.

[InspectorG]

You have some valid points about free space and hitboxes.

But.

Your context is a bit off.

You ASSUME players are gonna pay $ to get a SC, which is better, aside from lack of JJ. Im not gonna pay $ for a SC. If you buy me one, ill use it. Once it comes out for C-bill illl likely get one.

As far as SRM, they are for close range, i try not to play Nova close range until mid-late match. I play it like a Kitfox, fire support for the fat mechs. Since i usually pug, and pugs are uaually more peek-a-boo rather than concentrated pushes, it works.

This game has a steep learning curve. I dont think One-Button-win mechs will improve much. It will just make the game faster and twitchier, making it more CoD.

You overlooked it gets a 21pts damage per arm at Clan erml range. The mech is too big but the wideness of it lets you do some weird angle shots on the edges of cliffs without exposing much torso and side peeking. Not all that impressive but i put it to decent use.

As far as the nail stick, If the job required killing someone quietly, ill take the stick. Might even be able to make it look like an accident...

[Tim East]

The missile thing might have been less of an issue if the devs had included the C or D configs. Think we can get a Nova D Ter Roshak hero?

[Lily from animove]

InspectorG, on 08 October 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

You have some valid points about free space and hitboxes.

But.

Your context is a bit off.

You ASSUME players are gonna pay $ to get a SC, which is better, aside from lack of JJ. Im not gonna pay $ for a SC. If you buy me one, ill use it. Once it comes out for C-bill illl likely get one.

As far as SRM, they are for close range, i try not to play Nova close range until mid-late match. I play it like a Kitfox, fire support for the fat mechs. Since i usually pug, and pugs are uaually more peek-a-boo rather than concentrated pushes, it works.

This game has a steep learning curve. I dont think One-Button-win mechs will improve much. It will just make the game faster and twitchier, making it more CoD.

You overlooked it gets a 21pts damage per arm at Clan erml range. The mech is too big but the wideness of it lets you do some weird angle shots on the edges of cliffs without exposing much torso and side peeking. Not all that impressive but i put it to decent use.

As far as the nail stick, If the job required killing someone quietly, ill take the stick. Might even be able to make it look like an accident...

Sc will soon be out for cbills, its not an exclusive mech once and for all.

SRM's are close range sure, but those 270m are easily reachable on any map, or do you think srm's are the new meta because they are situational? not really maps in mWO ecept maybe alpine are way too brawl friendly to not use srm's when you mech can use them. Lasers are just much more flashy . So your cerml's are kinda more situational. Sure good in pugland but when someone knows what he does he knows where to move along to get his 270m range, or even more with range module.

Your point about exposure is totally wrong. By the hardpoints - you HAVE to expose more mech than any other mech except maybe phract? but phract ahs soem decent torso mounte oens as well.. Also, you can only shoot at things you have a line of sight to. Your cockpit is centered so you ALWAYS have to expose half of your mech. Otherwise no line of sight and then you would fire into the landscape in front of you. And by this the Nova exposes more than other mechs have to expose because they are not as wide as the Nova. and with the fact of your wideness + you are slower than most other mediums makes time of exposure exponential loger than other medium mechs ones. So it snot only the worst its the worst² when it comes to peek a boo battles. You point would be valid in a summoner when you go counterclockwise and your cockpit is very much on the right side. Then you only have to expose a fraction of your mech to draw a line of sight and fire.

Sure you stick may have its niche, but it will in normal circumstances not be usefull. As much as the nova can work, but normally is inferior.

@tim I would take Nova U.

ecm 8 mg's and 6 laser hardpoints WOAH prepare all your butts. That would be like having a fat ninja xD laser can open the back of your opponent and the you saw through internals with the MG's. Too bad it has some ferakign heavy medium lasers and micro pulse lasers. So we need to wait 10 years before we get this variant. Thats probably the time one needs to train a fatty to a ninja?

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 October 2014 - 11:06 AM.

[Tesunie]

Lily from animove, on 08 October 2014 - 02:34 AM, said:

So when the average gamer can make other mechs work fine but not a nova, it is clearly a bad mech in comparison to other mechs.

Then I guess most all mediums and light mechs are "horrible" (bad) mechs, as most all of those mechs in that class can be one shot killed by the more commonly played assaults and heavies?

Most people can't seem to play light mechs by your definition as it's too easy for them to die from a single hit. Most people can't play mediums either for the same reason. There is a reason that the Wolverine, Griffin and Shadowhawk are all considered "better" medium mechs, if not the best ones for their weight class. That reason? Weight. They are the heaviest medium mechs around, which grant them more tonnage for weapons, ammo, heatsinks and armor. With this in mind, of course the Stormcrow is going to be a "better mech", it's a heavier mech! This, by itself, means it can take more punishment.

Of course, better doesn't mean that everything else is "useless" either (the title of the thread). I'd have to say the Nova is a decent mech, even if it isn't the "best" clan medium available. However, a lot of people are (and correctly saying so) that the Nova is the worse clan medium mech. Well, there are only two clan medium mechs. If the Stormcrow is "better" because, impart, it's heavier. Then, yeah. The only other clan medium is going to be considered "worse".

Basically, the Nova isn't a bad mech. It isn't the best either. It runs average as far as mechs go, and rivals that of a Hunchback 4P, if not is stronger than the 4P due to range and jump (but is weaker from the heat). If played within it's role, it can be a very powerful mech, just like a lot of other mechs.

(I did not read the rest of your post, as I didn't have the time to do so. Sorry. )

[Tim East]

The U default config uses a bunch of stuff not released until later in the timeline and does nothing to address the complaint about the absence of missile weapons on the chassis in this game.

[Tesunie]

Tim East, on 08 October 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

The U default config uses a bunch of stuff not released until later in the timeline and does nothing to address the complaint about the absence of missile weapons on the chassis in this game.

There is an intimeline missile variant of the Nova. The Nova D I think? I can't say the Nova having access to missile hardpoints would make it more favorable in people's eyes, but it probably would help it out some.

[Lily from animove]

Tesunie, on 08 October 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

Then I guess most all mediums and light mechs are "horrible" (bad) mechs, as most all of those mechs in that class can be one shot killed by the more commonly played assaults and heavies?

Most people can't seem to play light mechs by your definition as it's too easy for them to die from a single hit. Most people can't play mediums either for the same reason. There is a reason that the Wolverine, Griffin and Shadowhawk are all considered "better" medium mechs, if not the best ones for their weight class. That reason? Weight. They are the heaviest medium mechs around, which grant them more tonnage for weapons, ammo, heatsinks and armor. With this in mind, of course the Stormcrow is going to be a "better mech", it's a heavier mech! This, by itself, means it can take more punishment.

Of course, better doesn't mean that everything else is "useless" either (the title of the thread). I'd have to say the Nova is a decent mech, even if it isn't the "best" clan medium available. However, a lot of people are (and correctly saying so) that the Nova is the worse clan medium mech. Well, there are only two clan medium mechs. If the Stormcrow is "better" because, impart, it's heavier. Then, yeah. The only other clan medium is going to be considered "worse".

Basically, the Nova isn't a bad mech. It isn't the best either. It runs average as far as mechs go, and rivals that of a Hunchback 4P, if not is stronger than the 4P due to range and jump (but is weaker from the heat). If played within it's role, it can be a very powerful mech, just like a lot of other mechs.

(I did not read the rest of your post, as I didn't have the time to do so. Sorry. )

Well the medium queue isn't very crouded by a specific reason. Because those mechs all can be one shotted. Lights have similar issues, but yet lights have superior speed making them easier in suvivability. You can not miss a Nova you will nearly all the time also hit the component you want. try this on a locust or commando. When they don't stand still you won't hit the same section all the time. It's harder to onehsot a whole section off them. way harder.

Also the SC is not better because of just more tonnage it is WAY better because more tonnage not a single fixed DHS no fixed JJ's aAND it has FF upgrade and ES upgrade. that is a LOT better. Imagine the Nova would have this, It would have some slottrouble with 12 CERML, but still it would allow the Nova some decent ballistics to carry with lasers and decent ammo as backup. Nearly all, even lower tonnaged, IS mechs can do that. And when someone says the new clanmedium is going to be worse, then hes just not very clever in my opinion. The Ice ferret comes with ES and FF upgrades giving it a lot tonnage, no fixed Heatsinks (I guess at this point) and no fixed JJ's. So a lot tonnage for weapons compared to the nova. AND it will go 142kph. It will be an evil SRM and CERML hit and run mech. if I am not too tired, it should be able to pack 2SRM6 and 3 CERML that is actually something I don't want to come across in my nova. That mech is going to spread some fear across the battlefield. If I am also not wrong now, it should be the second fastest medium after the CDA. but unlike the circada, it will have punch.

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 October 2014 - 02:29 PM.

[Gorgo7]

Congrats Lily! You've single handedly kept this thread open for much longer than I though possible!

[Bigbacon]

I went back to my novas yesterday and I'm starting to think they are useless and I want to love them again.

Just running way to hot. Can't dish out damage fast enough before you need to stop but during that down time if you get caught you are done.

I got solo'd today by a kit fox with a 6MPL nova. We were both beat up pretty well when a friend of his came and finished me.

I can't find a asetup that can keep you in the fire and dealing damage.

12SLs works but the range is bad and since you can really only fire 4 at time to keep the heat in check you just shoot a lot without doing a lot. Used to love this.

6SL + 6ML again, can't stay and fight very long.

Rignt now on my 2 LL + 6SL and 2LL + 4ML and 2LL + 6SL seems to work ok. 2 LLs don't generate tons of heat and you cool it off before they can fire again and thr 6SL are there just for the close range stuff.

Nova was always one of my favorite mechs, when it launched I loved me some 13SL with that 5 damage and 180 range (then 200) is was just so much fun without being OP.

[Tim East]

Tim East, on 08 October 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

The missile thing might have been less of an issue if the devs had included the C or D configs. Think we can get a Nova D Ter Roshak hero?

Tesunie, on 08 October 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

There is an intimeline missile variant of the Nova. The Nova D I think? I can't say the Nova having access to missile hardpoints would make it more favorable in people's eyes, but it probably would help it out some.

Yeah, I brought it up. The C and D both have missile slots. I mostly wanted the D because I'm a fanboy of the old books and Ter Roshak used one in the Trial of Refusal over giving Aidan Pryde a second chance at being a warrior.

[Gorgo7]

I run my prime with 5ERML right arm and 4 ERSL left arm the rest heatsinks no computer or other fluff. Seems to work very well indeed.

[Bigbacon]

playing around again today with my prime. Started using 2 LPL + 3ML OR 6SL.

Least you can alpha it twice before I need to run and cool down. alpha is like 48 to 52 percent and cools down enough to do it again after the cooldown.

I would LOVE a Nova SRM boat.

Edited by Bigbacon, 10 October 2014 - 04:54 PM.

[TygerLily]

Not as good as a Timber or Stormcrow but slap on a LPL and four ERML and it's a nice ride. People probably rate it higher than a Dire but I'm better with nimble laserboats so I do far better in the Nova than my Dire.

[That Dawg]

All I've been reading for the last several pages are "it sucks" "no it doesn" "yes it does" "no it doesnt"
I'd hope this thread would be dedicated Nova jocks showing some builds

I bought all three from cbill savings, grinded them with a week of freemium I won. Then...paid for a camo skin, and dumped the rest of the cbills into weapons. So I'm more or less stuck with it, determined to make it work.
Looks cool, pretty fast, jumps (also hoping that at some point they'll let me endo it, remove some JJ's at which point...)
the kitfox really can't be built poorly. I've had 700+ damage games in all sorts of odd builds with it (ECM)

the Nova... one of the mechs I've owned that runs very hot, or very cold- 5 kills, 800 damage a few times, and quite a few times less than 100 damage getting killed so damn early, or losing an arm so dam early in the game I feel like a stock cicada

I was having FUN in a dual erppc build, dual ERLP (3ERML) on the other side. Tried a big laser in each arm with 2 mediums under to help compensate for losing an arm too often. But the most FUN was had with dual ERPPC's in one arm chain fired, and 3 small lasers in the odd arm, stripped some armor, but those ER's boomboom across the map were too dam fun.
You have to twist. mandatory, you can't charge in
I run the S I have settled into this build. My KtoD ratio went from a dismal .54 during the first 2-3 weeks I had it to 1.02. Math says I went from not killing, to killing 1-2 per match, I only walk away with 300-400 damage, or less typically.
I haven't seen enough on those targeting computers to know if its BS, or I've settled into the mech and paying attention at weak spots again.

Said it before, I'll say it again. This is not a beginners mech, Its a decent medium quite capable.
The argument seems to be playing around statistics, if its valid, hit boxes, weapon way points, how it compares to....blah blah. If we're comparing, my Kintaro (you know, another medium that isn't popular, nor suitable for competitive play? Has a 1.4 win to loss ratio, a 1.27 kill to death ratio, which is odd, because its my go to damage mech- does as much damage as any assault I've had. More often lives longer, and swings the battle. Facing off novas and stormcrows, it typically walks away if its one on one.
rant almost over: I am hoping they do something down the road to 'fix' it. It has the potential to become one of the most frightening mediums you'd walk into. And I've been here long enough to see...splatcats neutered, lerms nerfed, then buffed, then nerfed again, SRM's squeezed, then fixed..almost..ppc's jumpjets...Get my point?
If you like it, I'd keep it. If you dont like running the trial nova (is it still available?) then you'll never grow into the current status it is now. I LOVED the trial nova, heat and all-

edit: Dear God, that was too long....

[Dakkaface]

Tesunie, on 07 October 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

You fail to get the point here. The Nova is a good mech. A very good mech. The Stormcrow may be a "better" mech by some/most people's opinion, but that does not make the Nova any "worse" of a mech.

For the most part, the Puma is considered "bad" because it's a "slow light". The Nova has jump, and can attack (in theory) at angles the Puma can't defend itself well from. Many people consider the Adder as a "bad" mech as well.

My point, overall, is that many mechs have their strengths and weaknesses. Maybe you aren't seeing the strengths of the Nova. Overall, it's been a very nice mech for me.

Gorgo7, on 08 October 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Congrats Lily! You've single handedly kept this thread open for much longer than I though possible!

I think reasoning with Lily is a fruitless endeavor at this point - he's clearly got a massive hateboner for the Nova, and won't accept that the mech can be anything other than complete dogshit.

@That Dawg
I make heavy use of the Nova - it's one of my favorite chassis outside of MWO, and I enjoy piloting it in MWO. I'm not going to lie, the C-laser nerf really hurt the Nova. It's still pilotable, but the rapid punch it used to have is much reduced. These days I my prime build is 8 cMLs instead of the 10 I used to prefer, with a TC1 and extra heat sinks. It makes for a much reduced punch, but I'll take that over repeated shutdown and internal damage any day. You can get three bursts off without overheating, a fourth is doable with override, but it's smarter to play it safe. I used to be able to rambo out with my 10 ER mediums and guarantee at least one kill (often 2+) while facerolling, but post-nerf it's back to careful sidepeeking, and directed laser butchery. Trying to faceroll and let the wubs do the work doesn't fly anymore. I'm going to give 6 cMPL's a shot, but in general I prefer having the range on cER Meds.

I won't lie, if I could drop two JJ's for addition heat sinks, I would. The Stormcrow is actually much closer to my old style of play, since I was formerly a HBK specialist, but having the option for JJ'ing over walls or buildings is VERY nice and often gives me shots on target I wouldn't otherwise get.

Nova's not really in a great place now, but I hardly think it's a bad mech. It's just not top tier like the SHD/GRF/WVR/SCR.

[That Dawg]

Dakkaface, on 14 October 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

I think reasoning with Lily is a fruitless endeavor at this point - he's clearly got a massive hateboner for the Nova, and won't accept that the mech can be anything other than complete dogshit.

yeah, I noticed that. When we all drive stormhoe's and sell our novas, the thread will die....





I have LOTS of fun with dual LPL's and 3 ML's, modules and armor to suit. love it.

[Lily from animove]

you guys still realise that what you do is not a Nova, A Nova starts being a nova when its make use of the nova unique feature: those many Energyhardpoints. Otherwise you just run a build other mechs an run too, and then these mechs will do it better.

You don't need a Nova for most of the builds you suggest as "working" Novas. You heavily lack the objective judgement of mechs their place amongst other mechs and their use in that place.

[That Dawg]

Lily from animove, on 15 October 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

its not judgement we lack, its repetitive, nagging insistence that we are wrong, when clearly, a lot more players do not agree with you.

Every stinking time someone comes into this thread and posts a build that is working for them, BOOM, you post another diatribe about all thats wrong with it, and...................how much better the stormhoe is, and how wrong we all are for lacking your Einsteinian vision.
p.s. Can I buy the SC for cbills yet?

You posted a great thread about how wonderful the nova is, then they nerfed it, and you were so hurt, so spurned you became a meme of sorts.

Back to topic:

I dont have a medium that can run a pair of ERPPC's or a pair of LRL's AND three mediums.
Did you see the thread (headshaking face palm) I ran, for giggles a SIX ERL nova, no armor...kills and damage.
Made me re-think running the 8 ML nova, I LIKE it!
It does run hot, but after a dozen battles in a joke mech, I realized serious potential.
many have noted, you can't charge into battle, you can't scout. You can support your team brilliantly if you pay attention.
Even the vanilla 6ML 4MG loadout works great.
Are there other mechs that can the same or better? Sure, something with missile hardpoints.
Are there other mediums that have the potential for boating energy to the same ability as the nova? I can't think of any.
If you're an average to above average player does any medium have the (energy) versatility this does? Nope

http://mwomercs.com/...ld/page__st__40
last page, pics, screens of an absurd, WORKING nova build

[Escef]

I took out my stock Nova Prime a couple times today for my livestream, just on a whim. Did well with it. In fact, better than I recall doing with it when I was trying to unlock double basics. Go fig.