123 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

Hellen Wheels, on 20 June 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

You were told wrong. I drop solo exclusively, and 99% of the time I wind up in Alpha lance.

yeah no.

Post a screen of yourself solo in a game with a known 4man from a known team slotted into beta/charlie while your alpha lance is clearly not a 2/3 man as well.

[Roadkill]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 June 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Funny. the other day I was in Alpha Lance multiple times as a PUG. Does it really matter which lance you are in if you are PUGging? Be honest.

Absolutely! But only if Deathlike, et al, are correct. If so, then that tells you about the other players on your team. If I'm in Charlie lance and what Deathlike is saying is true, it means I should be able to rely on my teammates in Alpha and Bravo to be good pilots.

If I'm in Alpha lance, then the rest of my team might be derps and we're screwed.

[Ghogiel]

Roadkill, on 20 June 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

It has nothing to do with your Elo rating.

Actually it does have everything to do with Elo. It's just not how most think...

The premade is first as most expect. (it could be a 2/3 man which is how solo players get dropped into alpha)
However it doesn't mean that those players are the highest Elo rated players on the team, it's that they are the closest Elo rating to the target Elo rating the match was created for.

for instance it might throw a LORDs premade into beta lance even though it's likely they are collectively higher rated than my lance which got alpha because of the expanding search threshold.

Edited by Ghogiel, 20 June 2014 - 11:44 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 20 June 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

Absolutely! But only if Deathlike, et al, are correct. If so, then that tells you about the other players on your team. If I'm in Charlie lance and what Deathlike is saying is true, it means I should be able to rely on my teammates in Alpha and Bravo to be good pilots.

If I'm in Alpha lance, then the rest of my team might be derps and we're screwed.

It means you assume they are good pilots. If you are PUG Alpha and Bravo are normally groups... Stop worrying about your team mates and focus on yourself. You are PUGging in a random team generator, All you can be sure of is your level of competence. So pull your weight, fail to do so, but don't get down on your team cause you aren't playing like a team on Comms.

[Roadkill]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 June 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

It means you assume they are good pilots. If you are PUG Alpha and Bravo are normally groups... Stop worrying about your team mates and focus on yourself. You are PUGging in a random team generator, All you can be sure of is your level of competence. So pull your weight, fail to do so, but don't get down on your team cause you aren't playing like a team on Comms.

Having an idea about the skill level of the rest of your team not only can, but should inform your own tactics. Sure, I could play it safe and assume my teammates are derps in every game as that's the safest way to pull my weight, but if I know my teammates are good players then I can make assumptions about how they'll react to certain kinds of information and situations. That will help me increase my performance, and therefore the team's performance, beyond the "safe" way.

More information is good. Yeah you gotta make do with whatever information you have, but having more information about your own team would be a good thing.

[Hellen Wheels]

Deathlike, on 20 June 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

The only time you are a solo PUG in alpha is when a 3-man is involved (no 4-man).

This is absolutely false.

[Fatal25]

WTF is ELO and why should I care about it? Is it some kind of small penis rating system someone developed so 35 year olds that still live in their parents basement can feel good about something or is it a legitimate tournament ranking system that everyone is unknowingly enrolled in? If it in any way effects gameplay the devs should certainly make all players aware of it while in the game (not on the forums, twitter, or whatever), not just the players that have been here since beta.

[Votanin FleshRender]

From the "for what it's worth" Dept of MWO affairs.

I'm positive I have a very low elo and I am ALWAYS in Charlie.

The handful (a half dozen over 3 months? Maybe?) of times I was in bravo, it was a absolute slaughter every time. My teams slaughter I mean...

And I have never been in alpha when I was solo dropping.

[Hellen Wheels]

Wintersdark, on 20 June 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

It has nothing to do with Elo.

This is absolutely true. Elo has nothing whatsoever to do with MW:O. MW:O does not use an Elo rating system.

FIDE uses Elo.

Not MW:O.

Anyone stating otherwise, or calling any ranking system used by MW:O "Elo" is simply unaware of the proper usage of the term.

[WarHippy]

Roadkill, on 20 June 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

Absolutely! But only if Deathlike, et al, are correct. If so, then that tells you about the other players on your team. If I'm in Charlie lance and what Deathlike is saying is true, it means I should be able to rely on my teammates in Alpha and Bravo to be good pilots.

If I'm in Alpha lance, then the rest of my team might be derps and we're screwed.

If there is a large gap in Elo from Alpha to Charlie then yes, but if there is a small difference in Elo then its safe to assume they are just as reliable or derpy as you.

[Sandpit]

Roadkill, on 20 June 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Having an idea about the skill level of the rest of your team not only can, but should inform your own tactics. Sure, I could play it safe and assume my teammates are derps in every game as that's the safest way to pull my weight, but if I know my teammates are good players then I can make assumptions about how they'll react to certain kinds of information and situations. That will help me increase my performance, and therefore the team's performance, beyond the "safe" way.

More information is good. Yeah you gotta make do with whatever information you have, but having more information about your own team would be a good thing.

wouldn't be an issue if you could pick your teammates as opposed to hoping the random mm doesn't team you up with joe derp and company...

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 20 June 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Having an idea about the skill level of the rest of your team not only can, but should inform your own tactics. Sure, I could play it safe and assume my teammates are derps in every game as that's the safest way to pull my weight, but if I know my teammates are good players then I can make assumptions about how they'll react to certain kinds of information and situations. That will help me increase my performance, and therefore the team's performance, beyond the "safe" way.

More information is good. Yeah you gotta make do with whatever information you have, but having more information about your own team would be a good thing.

I don't disagree at all Road. But seeing as the match makers is random in its function, you don't know what you will get on your team. If we want more information... Well I am a Lawman, I know how good up to 3 teammates can be! After that Unless I have seen the other 8 in game before... I have no idea how good or bad they are. I assume nothing, and am rarely disappointed.

Fatal25, on 20 June 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

WTF is ELO and why should I care about it? Is it some kind of small penis rating system someone developed so 35 year olds that still live in their parents basement can feel good about something or is it a legitimate tournament ranking system that everyone is unknowingly enrolled in? If it in any way effects gameplay the devs should certainly make all players aware of it while in the game (not on the forums, twitter, or whatever), not just the players that have been here since beta.

ELO is a 70s Orchestral rock band

Elo is some guy who made a rating scale for Chess and other games.

[Bilbo]

Fatal25, on 20 June 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

WTF is ELO and why should I care about it? Is it some kind of small penis rating system someone developed so 35 year olds that still live in their parents basement can feel good about something or is it a legitimate tournament ranking system that everyone is unknowingly enrolled in? If it in any way effects gameplay the devs should certainly make all players aware of it while in the game (not on the forums, twitter, or whatever), not just the players that have been here since beta.

Enjoy:
http://mwomercs.com/...79-matchmaking/

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 20 June 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

wouldn't be an issue if you could pick your teammates as opposed to hoping the random mm doesn't team you up with joe derp and company...

I almost resemble this remark!

[Ngamok]

Sorry if mentioned already. If you always wind up in Charlie, it's because you ELO is low. When I drop solo I pray I am never in Alpha and I often end up in it. Then that means Alpha isn't a 4 man and I cry. I can count the number of times on 2 hands I have ended up in Charlie lance since Christmas while solo.

[Ghogiel]

Hellen Wheels, on 20 June 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

This is absolutely true. Elo has nothing whatsoever to do with MW:O. MW:O does not use an Elo rating system.

FIDE uses Elo.

Not MW:O.

Anyone stating otherwise, or calling any ranking system used by MW:O "Elo" is simply unaware of the proper usage of the term.

I think you'll find that PGI and IGP actually refer to the ranking system used in MWO as Elo. so nice try with the semantics but no

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghogiel, on 20 June 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

I think you'll find that PGI and IGP actually refer to the ranking system used in MWO as Elo. so nice try with the semantics but no

To be fair PGI/IGP say a lot of things that seem to lacking... truth.

If they modified the system then it is Elo-like. I know it is a fine hair but it is still a distinction.

[Lane]

It is complicated this matchmaker thingy. I notice when dropping In mechs I do better in, aka higher elo, I get in Alpha or Bravo mostly. In the rest of my mechs I get mostly Charlie.

[Deathlike]

Roadkill, on 20 June 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Yep, it's tough to know any of this for sure.

Are you sure about that?

It was supposed to be that way, and in fact everyone assumed that's exactly how it worked (because we were told that's what they were going to do), but then I recall seeing someone admit that they never got around to implementing it. Can't remember if that was a tweet or a VLOG or whatever.

So then we were told again that they were going to reinstate that plan for CW... but CW isn't here yet, so why should we assume that Elo per weight class is?

Oddly, the addition of the Clans has made all of this tougher to figure out because of the large influx of new (or long break) players cluttering up the patterns we were used to seeing.

I suggest you dig in the Karl Berg thread. It was confirmed there (and various other times). Really, I tend to believe this is the case either way.

Joseph Mallan, on 20 June 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Funny. the other day I was in Alpha Lance multiple times as a PUG. Does it really matter which lance you are in if you are PUGging? Be honest.

Short Answer: Yes
Long Answer: I don't take it entirely seriously either.

When you're in Alpha Lance, there is a genuine expectation to perform.. in fact is virtually guaranteed there is a premade in Alpha Lance. So in my mind, "they better not suck".

Ghogiel, on 20 June 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Actually it does have everything to do with Elo. It's just not how most think...

The premade is first as most expect. (it could be a 2/3 man which is how solo players get dropped into alpha)
However it doesn't mean that those players are the highest Elo rated players on the team, it's that they are the closest Elo rating to the target Elo rating the match was created for.

for instance it might throw a LORDs premade into beta lance even though it's likely they are collectively higher rated than my lance which got alpha because of the expanding search threshold.

I've virtually never need that happen though. Lords in Bravo Lance? Unlikely, unless they are not a 4-man.

As a "cornucopia" of matches (this was all done on patch day Tuesday, extending into Wednesday), here's how it looked to me (just understand that not all the matches are put up for consumption, rather it is selected from what I took screenshots of at the time, for whatever reason I had).

First match of Patch Day - Charlie Solo:


Best game of the day maybe? - Charlie Solo:


Alpha 4-man:


Bravo 4-man (Alpha is 4-man premade):


Charlie 3-man (meaning Alpha and Bravo are at least 3-mans):


Alpha 4-man:


Charlie Solo:


Tactical Error by me - Charlie Solo:


Charlie Solo:


Unrelated - Although showing ammo more than 9000 is kinda borked:


Charlie Solo:


The state of the MM near/around pre-hotfix:


Charlie Solo:


Charlie Solo:


Charlie Solo - post-hotfix with special appearance:


Charlie Solo:


Charlie Solo - rematch and ragequit (of me):


State of the MM when I ended the night - post-hotfix:


Unrelated - why is Sarah's Jenner stuck in the middle of all those Trial Mechs?

[Ghogiel]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 June 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

To be fair PGI/IGP say a lot of things that seem to lacking... truth.

If they modified the system then it is Elo-like. I know it is a fine hair but it is still a distinction.

Yeah but it's still irrelevant really. They could have called it MWO MM scrambled eggs style and it wouldn't change anything. And really having some random with underhive understanding of premades in MWO trying to educate the masses... really now