148 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Tovan Cassidine, on 01 July 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

And who pays to keep the lights on and the servers serving? If PGI offers up everything for free so that players get to use only the in-game currency for all the shinies, how does PGI (a for-profit business) make money to pay for all the things necessary to stay in business?

You do not need to charge for power in order to get people to make purchases using real money.
Many games have already proven this to be the case, beyond a a reasonable doubt.

Even if you made all mechs available for CBills, but charged extremely high prices for the ones that you currently can only get for MC or real dollars, then tons of people would STILL BUY THEM WITH MC OR REAL DOLLARS.

They would do this because they would rather spend that money then grind for days to get those mechs with CBills.

Indeed, with such a system, the developer will tend to get MORE money in the long run.

[Allen Ward]

1453 R, on 01 July 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

The problem, Allen, is that you're trying to fight the Clans on their strong ground. XL-equipped overgunned monstrosities are where we shine - we do it better than the Inner Sphere does. The Inner Sphere's advantage lies, generally, in the shorter face-time requirements of its weapons, as well as its lower heat generation per weapon. The Misery is one of the best 'Mechs in the game for taking advantage of that shorter face-time, but only if you center it on that cannon slot. Right now you're chin-deep in Ghost Heat, which means you likely have more face-time requirement than most Clan 'Mechs if you want to fire all those large lasers sequentially and avoid kicking your own behindus.

The reason the Misery does well is because the Stalker's side-torso hitboxes catch everything; most Misery pilots I've seen sacrifice the right side as a shield for the left. It's a 'Mech that rewards good twisting very well, but doesn't really perform until you get that twisting down. The elephant hunter builds still work just fine against the Clans, you just have to be patient and hope your team doesn't fold before your turn comes up. Which, frankly, goes for short-range big-punch Clan builds to, so...yeah.

Brawling in general is a dicey choice these days, man. Has nothing to do with the Clans thing.

Thanks man, I totally agree. I just tried to counter the clan mechs witht their own weapons but I must admit, that IS mechs are totally outgunned here. I just happen to love the LPL, too bad that Ghost Heat kills it in MWO. The worst is, I just hate to play yet another Ac20 Misery. This game is so stale already, everone is forced to run one of three viable builds or simply die. Have you seen any Trebuchets recently? I heard there were Centurions in the game, too, ah and the Catapult, LOL. No good for nothing anymore (not the best mech before). It's just sad that the clan mech release changed the game so drastically. I am not saying the clan technology, as it is perfectly ok (more or less). It's the fact that only a handful of clan mechs are out now, and everyone wants to run a Madcat... I am glad that the Matchmaker does not throw 12 Timbers at us already.

[Valdherre Tor]

Hodor

[Cimarb]

Allen Ward, on 01 July 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

Thanks man, I totally agree. I just tried to counter the clan mechs witht their own weapons but I must admit, that IS mechs are totally outgunned here. I just happen to love the LPL, too bad that Ghost Heat kills it in MWO. The worst is, I just hate to play yet another Ac20 Misery. This game is so stale already, everone is forced to run one of three viable builds or simply die. Have you seen any Trebuchets recently? I heard there were Centurions in the game, too, ah and the Catapult, LOL. No good for nothing anymore (not the best mech before). It's just sad that the clan mech release changed the game so drastically. I am not saying the clan technology, as it is perfectly ok (more or less). It's the fact that only a handful of clan mechs are out now, and everyone wants to run a Madcat... I am glad that the Matchmaker does not throw 12 Timbers at us already.

I pretty much completely disagree with your whole post. Sure, the Clan release added a ton of new mechs to the game, but it did not change the game "drastically". Everyone wants to run them because they are NEW, just like everyone was running the Phoenix mechs when they first came out and just like happens every time a new Hero mech is released (though packs are more obvious because there is a higher number of mechs released at once).

I see Catapults, Centurions and even Trebuchets quite often - well, roughly the same as I did before Clans were released - and they do quite well still. The AC20 nerf was hard on the Cent, but it still does it's job, and the SRM buff has actually revitalized the Catapult over the last week. Trebuchets have always been underdogs, and that really hasn't changed since they were released.

Much like the Cataphract, the Timber Wolf is extremely popular right now because it blends a really good combination of mobility and firepower, but it is not overpowered either. While most of the Clan mechs are "good", none of the others are even close to unbalanced.

[Allen Ward]

Tovan Cassidine, on 01 July 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

I've seen those, too. They were pretty impressive. Then, I got behind them in my Dragon and blew big holes into them until they stopped being impressive. Tactics, son. Use better tactics. Use the terrain to your advantage. Learn where to place your shots and practice to do it accurately. Stay mobile. Don't run straight at them guns blazing. Don't stop in front of the gigantic, heavily-armed robotic fighting machine. Manage your heat better. Twist that torso. Design a better fit for your 'mech, perhaps one that does not put your engine into the side torsos; that triples your vulnerability. Maybe try some different 'mechs until you find one that really suits your play style.

My buddy, who also runs a Misery, has zero problem dropping Clan 'mechs. My buddy in his Spider has no problem dropping Clan 'mechs. I have no problems dropping them with my Dragon. Do we always win? No, of course not. Neither do the dirty Clanners. That's why it's a "game" instead of a "movie."

In short, stop crying that someone has a better toy than you and demanding that someone take theirs away. Learn to use yours better.

Thanks for the tip with the side torso, nice idea. That last line of yours about "better toys" tells me everything. It's ok, I just tell myself PGI wanted to create an "atmosphere of Clan Invasion" by putting us into the current situation. I just fear, that it will not go away. As soon as MC/C-Bills will buy clan mechs, IS mechs will become a tiny minority in the game.

[1453 R]

Allen Ward, on 01 July 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

Thanks man, I totally agree. I just tried to counter the clan mechs witht their own weapons but I must admit, that IS mechs are totally outgunned here. I just happen to love the LPL, too bad that Ghost Heat kills it in MWO. The worst is, I just hate to play yet another Ac20 Misery. This game is so stale already, everone is forced to run one of three viable builds or simply die. Have you seen any Trebuchets recently? I heard there were Centurions in the game, too, ah and the Catapult, LOL. No good for nothing anymore (not the best mech before). It's just sad that the clan mech release changed the game so drastically. I am not saying the clan technology, as it is perfectly ok (more or less). It's the fact that only a handful of clan mechs are out now, and everyone wants to run a Madcat... I am glad that the Matchmaker does not throw 12 Timbers at us already.

I’m actually a fairly dedicated/hard-headed Treb pilot on the IS side; it’s one of my favorite chassis, warts and all. Yeah, in recent days I’ve been playing the crud out of my shiny new Clan toys, but c’mon. Can you blame me?

Speaking of: TBT-7M.

That’s one of my favorite Trebuchet fits; not so super-optimized for Clanbusting, but if someone said to me “Hey, 1453-R! If you were hard-locked into that TBT build of yours and then hurled against the Clans on the ‘wrong’ side of an IS vs. Clans drop, would you feel totally ripped off and useless?” my answer would be “Not at all. I’m not going to be soloing any Timber Wolves, no, but then again I didn’t solo Orions or Cataphracts with this thing before, either. It’s a quick and agile skirmisher; I’d skirmish quickly in an agile manner against the Clans and pray to Buddha that my team didn’t crumple around me. So, basically the same thing I did in it before, just with an extra-sharp eye out for Timber Wolves and significantly less worry about being chewed up by cheeky Firestarters.”

Edited by 1453 R, 01 July 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[Allen Ward]

1453 R, on 01 July 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

I’m actually a fairly dedicated/hard-headed Treb pilot on the IS side; it’s one of my favorite chassis, warts and all. Yeah, in recent days I’ve been playing the crud out of my shiny new Clan toys, but c’mon. Can you blame me?

Speaking of: TBT-7M.

That’s one of my favorite Trebuchet fits; not so super-optimized for Clanbusting, but if someone said to me “Hey, 1453-R! If you were hard-locked into that TBT build of yours and then hurled against the Clans on the ‘wrong’ side of an IS vs. Clans drop, would you feel totally ripped off and useless?” my answer would be “Not at all. I’m not going to be soloing any Timber Wolves, no, but then again I didn’t solo Orions or Cataphracts with this thing before, either. It’s a quick and agile skirmisher; I’d skirmish quickly in an agile manner against the Clans and pray to Buddha that my team didn’t crumple around me. So, basically the same thing I did in it before, just with an extra-sharp eye out for Timber Wolves and significantly less worry about being chewed up by cheeky Firestarters.”

Nice build I'd feel honored to run along with my Streak Kintaro
I think 90% of the "problems" encountered (including mine) are not an issue of a single weapon or mech being overpowered, but derive from the fact that in some drops you are pitched against a combination of mechs and weapons that you simply can't counter. As long as one can not prepare himself for the map and team he is going to play with, ridiculous stuff is going to happen. You can't make a decent build for all situations. To counter the Clans you have to specialize and then again you are more depending on your team to support you. Which simply does not happen in PUG.

[Cimarb]

Allen Ward, on 01 July 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Nice build I'd feel honored to run along with my Streak Kintaro
I think 90% of the "problems" encountered (including mine) are not an issue of a single weapon or mech being overpowered, but derive from the fact that in some drops you are pitched against a combination of mechs and weapons that you simply can't counter. As long as one can not prepare himself for the map and team he is going to play with, ridiculous stuff is going to happen. You can't make a decent build for all situations. To counter the Clans you have to specialize and then again you are more depending on your team to support you. Which simply does not happen in PUG.

Teamwork is OP; nerf teamwork! Oh wait, teamwork is getting a much-needed buff this week, YAY!

[IraqiWalker]

Allen Ward, on 01 July 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

So we have to wait a few years now before the very first of these will come out for IS?

The second IS get LB5Xs I am buying three Dragons. That weapons is amazing on the Dragon mechs, and it complements their style of play greatly.

Allen Ward, on 01 July 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

Not yet, actually I only bought the Misery last weekend. I am well aware of this very fine setup and I will test it. But, as far as it comes to the current situation with clan assault mechs dominating the field over long distance, I stayed away from all the classical close quarter elephant hunter builds. I ran my Atlac DDC with Ac20, 3SRM6 and 2 Med VERY efficiently for almost 18 months, now, with the clans, you can throw this away. All the good old pointblank brawl tactics are gone. You get PPCed to bits while closing in.

I know using the XL on the Misery is madness, but using slow mechs is even worse. Clan mechs are fast AND have lots of firepower. Who cares that they are paper thin? If they see u first and fire away, it's game over. I stopped counting how many times my Atlasses got cored from the very first volley of PPC/laser strikes. You can't duck away, ECM doesn't help much as every second clan mech carries TAG (I would too, if I had almost energy slots). It's hard times.

I switched to the XL Misery with 3 LPL and 2 ERLL and enough DH to fire them in an acceptable way. I destroyed some Timbers with it, although in a fresh duel I die first. My tactic is to stay low until alle Clan mechs receoved some bruises from laser fire/missiles, then I move in (along with others, otherwise I become sole target and die instantly) and knock out the cheeky Timber who thinks I am easy prey. It works sometimes. If I manage to take ozt the side torso with an Alpha, bingo. Often I end up shutting down staring down the badly wounded Timber, not good.

And on many games, while fighting that Timber, I get flanked by a Stormcrow an Ultra AC20 = dead. Funny, that this exact situation repeats so often, the team setups are pretty boring currently.

Thanks for the smurfy link, I will keep it and test if this build works for me.

Sorry for the typos, I have to somehow switch off that darn Touchpad on my Dell notebook.

Do you drop solo very often? In solo drops teams tend to collapse or charge at unpredictable times, very often. As a Direwolf pilot I can tell you that the biggest threat to me is that atlas build you posted. I have died too many times to it. However, it all depended on the Atlas getting close to me using terrain, WHILE their team gave them proper cover. I assume you're getting the first part right, but no one is covering you.

People need to follow through with an Atlas charge, even if it's reckless, at least make sure the mech survives it, since it can dish out a lot of hurt.

If you try and face the clans on their turf, then you need to be very comfortable with your mech and buid. My COM-2D, My firestarters (I have all but the H), and my Orion-1K are my best clan-busting mechs. Even though the are equipped with DoT weapons (except for the ON-1K's AC20). The reason that I can dismantle clan mechs with them is because I've been playing every single one of them for a looooong time (except the Orion), my COM-2D is the oldest mech I have, piloted it almost every day since I've started the game (used to pilot the COM-2D stock trial mech back then, afterwards I purchased it with my Cadet Bonus).

Basically it requires less skill to deal with the clans if facing them with what they are weak against (PP FLD, short face time weapons, and single salvo fire, not to mention IS LRMs). However, in contrast, you need to be better skilled in what you are piloting to face them in their comfort zone (stare down contests with DoT weapons). Unless someone takes me out at the beginning of the fight, I can't score less than 400 points of damage in my Commando. Because I've been piloting it for months.

If you are having a hard time with the clans in a Misery you got recently, and while using DoT weapons, I'd say things are working as intended. If after you master the misery, and find a loadout you are comfortable with, you still have problems facing those particular mechs, we can work on finding out, exactly why that's happening.