156 replies to this topic

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I would like to see the CT go from 2/3 of the torso to just 1/3. Though an easier solution may be to give the prime and A's CT a hardened armor boost (as seen in some of the Warhawk's arms) to compensate for the oversized CT. The B has an energy hardpoint which could be considered a trade off.

That being said I am having much more success with it now that I am learning just what it can not do.

H Seldon, on 23 June 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

Had an amazing experience yesterday. I lost both side torsos in my DW. I should have taken a picture, nobody will probably believe me.

Clearly, you are either lying or you are a witch.

Edited by Rouken, 23 June 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Lostdragon]

I'm hesitant to share this tidbit because it will make it harder for me to kill Daishis, but the way they are set up right now you cannot torso twist away from incoming fire because good pilots know to shoot the Daishi in the crotch. The solution is to turn your legs and torso simultaneously. This is what the most effective Daishi pilots I have observed are doing to protect their CT and spread damage to side torsos and legs, and it works.

[Eddie1481]

I have to agree. I've been using the Dire wolf since it came out and the CT is too big. I have seen many other mechs get reduced to below 50% and still be alive. How times have you honestly seen a Direwolf get to that mark?
I understand it is a big mech with lots of firepower but after 3 hits i have critcal damage to my center torso.
Either a smaller CT box or slightly faster twisting will help.

[Wingbreaker]

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd consider giving them the Stalker treatment to reduce the CT.

Here are some crude examples, inspired by this thread and I hope this will continue.




Then give the Omnipods more negative quirks as necessary after adjusting their hitboxes.

[Joseph Mallan]

Archon, on 21 June 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

As stated above, there are plenty of other things "balancing" out the mech. A broken CT hitbox doesn't need to be one of them.

Since the cockpit is sitting right on the Mechs nose would you prefer the Cockpit be easier to destroy? I know it would make better sense to me if it did.

[Praehotec8]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 June 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

so you are OK with me melting your face as long as it's NOT ballistics (which in Clan MEchs are far less effective than their IS equivalents, anyhow)?
DWF-PRIME

OK then.

It is a horrible, solo PUG mech, and should stay that way. Used well in a formation? It IS the Death Star.

Some people would like to run a dire wolf and be a real threat in PUG matches. It doesn't quite seem fair to leave a mech with glaring defects to balance it rather than actually trying to make it well rounded.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...42ec475f6f8fdb9

This stalker has a 103 dmg alpha, and while not heat efficient, the stalker has the enough durability and maneuverability to get into a brawl, fire an alpha or two, and often get back out to cool. It can be just as devastating while supported, with better solo viability. The dire wolf cannot do this.

Sure the dire wolf can mount more weapons than the stalker, but in practical terms, it cannot efficiently use more simultaneously than the stalker and its ballistics are worse than the Misery's. Heat buildup will still limit the dire wolf, and the dire wolf cannot disengage to cool.

I'm a mediocre pilot, and I typically get 200-500 damage with the dire wolf, so it isn't worthless, but it FEELS frustrating, and it plays like a second line mech, which just feels...wrong. I want my assault mech to be able to assault and lead the charge into the enemy line.

Edited by Praehotec8, 23 June 2014 - 12:08 PM.

[New Breed]

This happened when I took a peak inside the cave in forest colony. I saw 3 enemy mechs looking at me as I came around the corner, I didn't expect to live.

I expected to live longer then half a second and my damaged side torso was only from a lick of a laser. So basically my mech wasn't damaged AT ALL, except for a obliterated CT. I sat back in my chair and shook my head.

Again, I knew I was going to die.. but uh, damage no where but the ct?

[Wingbreaker]

Ghost Bear, on 23 June 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

This happened when I took a peak inside the cave in forest colony. I saw 3 enemy mechs looking at me as I came around the corner, I didn't expect to live.

I expected to live longer then half a second and my damaged side torso was only from a lick of a laser. So basically my mech wasn't damaged AT ALL, except for a obliterated CT. I sat back in my chair and shook my head.

Again, I knew I was going to die.. but uh, damage no where but the ct?

It's almost as if you shouldnt be leading the charge when mechs like the Nova can core you in two shots.

[Bluetavius]

Wingbreaker, on 23 June 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

It's almost as if you shouldnt be leading the charge when mechs like the Nova can core you in two shots.

Almost, but assault mechs always lead the charge right?

[Roadkill]

Khobai, on 22 June 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

The crotch should be split between the legs. because the crotch doesnt rotate with the upper body, so if the Dire Wolf is torso twisted away from you, you shouldnt be able to just shoot it in the crotch to circumvent the fact they torso twisted. That was the problem with the Atlas and why they fixed it. I also dont see a problem with the top of the hood being CT, I dont believe the Daishi's CT should be immune to LRMs.

I would make the roof all side torso but then widen the under-roof CT so that it encompasses all of the oblong "747 nose" in the center. I'd make the roughly triangular parts on the left and right below the oblong shape parts of the left and right torsos.

Basically, if it's part of the protruding "747 nose" it's CT. If not, it's some other section (left/right torso or left/right leg).

I, too, have been taking screenshots of every Daishi death and it's pretty ridiculous. Ignoring auto-spread damage like missiles, I have exactly 3 screenshots that aren't concentrated damage to core out the CT with virtually no damage anywhere else. Twice someone did enough damage to a side torso to strip the armor (but not actually destroy it) before the CT was completely cored, and once some team actually went to the trouble to destroy both side torsos and kill my Daishi via XL-engine. I'm guessing that last one was intentional, though, because it took them forever.

I also failed to take a screenshot one time when someone got behind me and I didn't notice due to the massive fight going on in front of me, and they cored me out through my rear center torso.

The Daishi's CT hit box isn't balance, it's a bug. And it needs to be fixed so that the Daishi can behave like an Assault Mech instead of some scared little pencil-neck gang banger hiding behind his tougher, scrappier buddies.

[SgtMagor]

um yea, what he said ^

[Archon]

Bluetavius, on 23 June 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

Almost, but assault mechs always lead the charge right?

Yeah, supposedly. I've had many encounters in my Direwolf where other players pile up behind me, expecting me to lead the charge. Sometimes I do it because I feel like I should be able to, but I almost always regret it as I'm usually cored shortly thereafter. Plus the fact that I'm the slowest mech means that my teammates have to hang back if they want to utilize my firepower, so they're further encouraged to have me lead. I would love to be able to lead charges but don't have the facetanking ability to do it. If I don't lead, my team leaves without me and sometimes I'm left plodding along (being slower than literally every other mech) until I find myself caught alone to be eaten by lights.

Edited by Archon, 23 June 2014 - 12:37 PM.

[Cervesia]

I was SO looking forward to the DireWolf. What a disappointment. I can't live long enough to get more than 200 dmg. Because I get "core'd" out at the first sight of others.

People expect the Assaults to be "Tankers", not this one.

My 2 Cents

[Joseph Mallan]

Cervesia, on 23 June 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

I was SO looking forward to the DireWolf. What a disappointment. I can't live long enough to get more than 200 dmg. Because I get "core'd" out at the first sight of others.

People expect the Assaults to be "Tankers", not this one.

My 2 Cents

Talk to Atlas Pilots about Being a Tank.

We've been disappointed much longer.

[Bishop Steiner]

Praehotec8, on 23 June 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

Some people would like to run a dire wolf and be a real threat in PUG matches. It doesn't quite seem fair to leave a mech with glaring defects to balance it rather than actually trying to make it well rounded.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...42ec475f6f8fdb9

This stalker has a 103 dmg alpha, and while not heat efficient, the stalker has the enough durability and maneuverability to get into a brawl, fire an alpha or two, and often get back out to cool. It can be just as devastating while supported, with better solo viability. The dire wolf cannot do this.

Sure the dire wolf can mount more weapons than the stalker, but in practical terms, it cannot efficiently use more simultaneously than the stalker and its ballistics are worse than the Misery's. Heat buildup will still limit the dire wolf, and the dire wolf cannot disengage to cool.

I'm a mediocre pilot, and I typically get 200-500 damage with the dire wolf, so it isn't worthless, but it FEELS frustrating, and it plays like a second line mech, which just feels...wrong. I want my assault mech to be able to assault and lead the charge into the enemy line.

Well, not every mech can be perfect for every role. IMO, you would have to nerf it's firepower significantly, to be able to allow it more mobility and hitboxes, or it would be rather unbalanced.

About the only thing I could see is if some of the more limited hardpoint Omni pods had some mobility quirk buffs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cervesia, on 23 June 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

I was SO looking forward to the DireWolf. What a disappointment. I can't live long enough to get more than 200 dmg. Because I get "core'd" out at the first sight of others.

People expect the Assaults to be "Tankers", not this one.

My 2 Cents

It's not a tank though. It's a tank destroyer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdtiger


And just like a Tank Destroyer, it will kill ANY "Tank" (Heavies in MWO are closer to a traditional MBT) in front of it. But like a tank destroyer, it is not particularly agile, and because of that lack of agility, it's armor seems subpar.

I think a lot of people take it out of context, or fail to realize how little "tank-i-ness" tanks actually have.

[Wine O]

Direwolf CT is poorly designed and there is no way they meant for it to be this bad. It is nearing Orion-bad before they fixed those. I'm sure they will make adjustments. I am just glad I didn't spend $500 for one cuz I would be ticked to have it delivered to me in that state.

[Jack Corban]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 June 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Well, not every mech can be perfect for every role. IMO, you would have to nerf it's firepower significantly, to be able to allow it more mobility and hitboxes, or it would be rather unbalanced.

About the only thing I could see is if some of the more limited hardpoint Omni pods had some mobility quirk buffs.

Thats some bullshit seriously. The Direwolve has allways been short to medium range oriented in its weapon loadouts. And it is a Spearhead Assaultmech ment to storm enemy positions and tear them a new one. It is well balanced with its speed and Torsotwist. There is absolutly no reason to make it a 100 ton Bullseye DoA Trashcan with its current Hitboxes. The Direwolve is a very teamdependent mech and that won't change with better hitboxes. Right now its just a joke. **** i'm going heads on with a Direwolve in my squishy little nova and you know what 8/10 times i win. Thats just wrong. It has lost its scarefactor completly.

Edited by Jack Corban, 23 June 2014 - 02:54 PM.

[Roadkill]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 June 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Well, not every mech can be perfect for every role. IMO, you would have to nerf it's firepower significantly, to be able to allow it more mobility and hitboxes, or it would be rather unbalanced.

About the only thing I could see is if some of the more limited hardpoint Omni pods had some mobility quirk buffs.

I don't think it needs more mobility, it just needs to have that borked CT hit box fixed. I actually like the fact that it handles like a land yacht, but then my Atlases all have Standard 300s in them so I'm used to piloting land yachts.

The Daishi isn't a brawling Mech. It's a slugger. It's not Floyd Mayweather, it's Tank Abbott.

But I don't think that it's balanced as-is. It's broken as-is. You can't take the results of a few elite players (who can do 800+ damage in a Jenner) and use their results to argue it's balanced.

In they hands of an average player, and Atlas is a much better Mech than a Daishi because it can actually take a little bit of damage before getting thrashed. I'm not elite, but I'm pretty good, and in my Elo band I'm watching Daishis go down in less than 10 seconds. They're literally dead before they can stop and throw it into reverse. That's just not balanced.

Fixing the borked CT hit box might at least give them the chance to lose a side torso instead of instantly dying, which means they at least get to play in that match for a little while longer.