118 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Eugenics, on 22 June 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

I understand Clan tech is suppose to be OP but what about players who can't afford $55-$500 on a virtual item in a video game?

Those who have Clan mechs have a much higher chance of scoring better than those who do not.

What are the lower spending players who can only afford Inner Sphere mechs suppose to do while they wait on Clan mechs becoming CB purchasable and/or go on mech sales?

Inner Sphere doesn't stand a chance head to head with Clan.

Maybe have 1 Clan mech vs 3 Inner Sphere mechs or use handicaps?... because this feel like a completely new game.

Thank you!

We Join a House. Band together and Kick Clanner ash!

[Sean von Steinike]

Eugenics, on 22 June 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

I understand Clan tech is suppose to be OP but what about players who can't afford $55-$500 on a virtual item in a video game?

Those who have Clan mechs have a much higher chance of scoring better than those who do not.

What are the lower spending players who can only afford Inner Sphere mechs suppose to do while they wait on Clan mechs becoming CB purchasable and/or go on mech sales?

Inner Sphere doesn't stand a chance head to head with Clan.

Maybe have 1 Clan mech vs 3 Inner Sphere mechs or use handicaps?... because this feel like a completely new game.

Thank you!

*laff* Clan mechs are hit and miss and not strictly better than IS mechs. While some are indeed better, many are worse. Only low skilled rubes think these clan mechs are so overpowered that it's a death sentence to be in IS mech.

[Tovan Cassidine]

Eugenics, on 22 June 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

I understand Clan tech is suppose to be OP but what about players who can't afford $55-$500 on a virtual item in a video game?

Those who have Clan mechs have a much higher chance of scoring better than those who do not.

What are the lower spending players who can only afford Inner Sphere mechs suppose to do while they wait on Clan mechs becoming CB purchasable and/or go on mech sales?

Inner Sphere doesn't stand a chance head to head with Clan.

As another player aptly wrote in a similar thread, "PGI is a business, not a social program." Developers, artists, servers, bandwidth, advertising, etc. all cost money. Lots of it. Nothing one can buy with real money gives any player an "I win" button. You really have no position for complaint if you are unwilling to support the game financially that you wish to play.

Meanwhile, all of us who do pay for Hero Mechs, Champion Mechs, paint jobs, camouflage schemes, Founders' packages, Phoenix packages, Clan packages, XP boosts, premium time, and all the MC-only items keep running the game all you freepers demand to play without any monetary investment. Frankly, I'd rather pay a flat subscription than deal with micro-transactions, but that is not PGI's business model.

Clan technology, while slightly superior on a one-to-one basis to similar IS equipment, does not make enough of a difference to win a match. All weekend long our outfit have been in matches wherein IS teams have stomped teams heavy in Clan-tech. What matters ultimately is player skill. Shiny toys from beyond the Periphery do not equate to skill. If you find yourself losing often, perhaps select different mechs until you find one that suits your play style; then practice, practice, practice with it. There is no secret money code to gaining skill and victory in MWO.

[wanderer]

I have no Clan 'Mechs.

I regularly reduce Clan 'Mechs in my matches to burning rubble.

Clans are PayForNew, not P2W. Watching $500 goldmechs flail and fail in the underhive proves that to me without a doubt.

[blackicmenace]

Clan mechs are not better than IS mechs, just different. Its not pay to win since they will be available for C Bills eventually. People paid for early access only.

[Ivar Miraborg]

I love game forums. Lively debates over stupid arguments about nerfing something that does not need changed while completely ignoring the things that should be addressed.

Most of the time it is someone who just doesn't play very well crying because they either suck or want something for nothing.

Edited by ImAnOgre, 29 June 2014 - 06:52 PM.

[MischiefSC]

This should be made clear -

The game is to some greater or lesser degree 'pay for advantage' and will likely get more so over time.

If you play the game without paying money, and more money than you'd pay for a regular game from Steam that you get to keep and play however and whenever you like, you exist to provide content for those who do.

The F2P model exists because some people are willing to pay absurd amounts of money for an advantage in a PvP game - which is absolutely what they're paying for. They wouldn't pay that much if it wasn't an actual advantage, so they get an advantage along with a veneer of 'it's all skill based!' when if it were they wouldn't pay that much for it.

Everyone else is there for content. If you're not buying clan mechs you are in this game to get beaten by people who bought them. By the time 5 months comes past and you can get clan mechs for cbills there will be a cash-only bundle to give the people willing to spend that money an edge over you, so they can have an advantage they have purchased to feel good about.

You'll get responses of 'lol I beats clan mechs in my ismech all the time' and 'it's not P2W, clan mechs are no real advantage' and the like because people get into what's called the sunk cost fallacy. People who don't buy mechs don't want to accept that they are playing for free because they are content to be consumed by people who are and people who are buying want to feel that it's their skill, not their money, that's giving them an advantage.

That's the reality of this game and games like it. People blow hundreds of dollars on this game and like to pretend that's a virtue that *deserves* rewarding over people who don't. You can't buy MW:O for $60 and play all the content on an even field. That wouldn't be nearly as profitable as some people paying $300, $400 or more so they have an advantage over people who don't pay anything.

That's business, it's this business model and it's how it works. There is no 'scarcity' in digital goods. Those of us who bought clan mechs absolutely did NOT buy 'early access'. It's out, anyone could get it. We paid extra to *exclude* everyone else from being able to play them for several months.

We paid extra to keep you from getting this content. We did it on purpose and we rewarded PGI for this business decision. We want Clan mechs to have a bit of an edge - enough for us to exploit and enjoy, not enough to get called on it. We will fiercely protect that advantage and our exclusivity until it starts to wear thin. Then you can have it and we'll expect PGI to sell us something new and just a *tiny* bit better.

Welcome to the show.

[Roland]

The f2p business model most certainly does not require that you be able to pay for a competitive advantage.

[Aresye]

Roland, on 23 June 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

I've noticed the pattern that most folks suggesting the clans are balanced are people who have clan mechs.

Although that in itself is kind of funny, since apparently unmastered clan mechs are balanced against mastered IS mechs.

Funny, I've also noticed a pattern in which it's the same 4-5 people who whine about Clan mechs in every discussion, despite the overwhelming majority of people who think the balance is good where it is, or at the most needs a few relatively minor tweaks to get it right.

We've had topics and videos created from competitive teams, topics with in-game statistical analysis, and many videos and testimonials posted from IS players that all say that balance between the two is very, very close.

So far the only thing I see from the anti-Clan side is referencing the paper numbers as, "proof," despite that indicating exactly nothing in terms of balance when in-game balancing mechanics are not shown on paper.

Think you're right? Post a video of you playing. I've been waiting to see videos from the anti-Clan crowd so I can see how much of the complaining is legitimate.

[Escef]

And suddenly in come people that think that those of us that have spent money on the game are somehow superior to those that have not. That's a totally BS attitude, and is not the least bit constructive. Whatever money you have spent upon the game has done nothing to make you in any way better than those that have not.

And before you start flinging accusations at me, I'll point out that Phoenix tag I have. Or you can go to my Twitch link and see me use clan mechs. (So far the Stormcrow is my friend, and the Nova is not.)

[blackicmenace]

Roland, on 23 June 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

I've noticed the pattern that most folks suggesting the clans are balanced are people who have clan mechs.

Although that in itself is kind of funny, since apparently unmastered clan mechs are balanced against mastered IS mechs.

I can't speak for other people but my clan mechs are fully elite and close to being mastered. I feel I can compete with both Clan and Inner Sphere mechs. I would call that balance.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Cataphract 3D still owns even the Timberwolf on most scoreboards.

[Powder Puff Pew Pew]

Eugenics, on 22 June 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

I understand Clan tech is suppose to be OP but what about players who can't afford $55-$500 on a virtual item in a video game?

Those who have Clan mechs have a much higher chance of scoring better than those who do not.

What are the lower spending players who can only afford Inner Sphere mechs suppose to do while they wait on Clan mechs becoming CB purchasable and/or go on mech sales?

Inner Sphere doesn't stand a chance head to head with Clan.

Maybe have 1 Clan mech vs 3 Inner Sphere mechs or use handicaps?... because this feel like a completely new game.

Thank you!

This is a repost of my earlier statement in responce to some [redacted] who thinks everything is OP like this guy.

"Dear Mech Warrior Dev's I am a noob player who just started playing mwo. I feel the need to Q_Q to everyone on the forums cuz it's the only place I feel important since I suck soo bad at playing the game so if I come here I can look good. By Q_Qing I gain attention and help build a reputation for sucking even worse. I'm your everyday random no-name "BeepBoop123" player. When I play the game I dont feel very important and I get splattered against the canyon walls every match cuz I cant utitilize a forward backwards strafing technique cuz I suck so bad. I come here and complain Clan Mechs are too OP or Phoenix is OP, or IS is OP. Every mech is OP compaired to my noob Sample Mech. This game is Pay to Win, its not fair I suck and theres better players than me and more experienced.

Why can't I get kills? Cuz I suck on the Long Hard Steam Vent of the Center Torso on my Gundam Mobile Suit. I dont feel the need to learn and adapt to new changes to the game either. Instead I'll come here on the forum and fill the threads with useless dribble and Q_Q and spam PTW topics and litter the forums with garbage topics. I spam and yell in Map chat during matches Clan is too OP, "rage Quit" So I leave the match cuz the enemy has clan mechs. Even though my team has clan mechs. I think if I Q_Q enough on the forums the Dev's will change the game to suit just me and then I can kill every player with ease and maybe people will believe my dribble and nonsence someday and ruin this game that took years to make and screw all the other players cuz I just want easy kills. Its all about me, cuz I'm a [redacted] and only want the people around me to believe me and if I build my Q_Q creditbility I will win every argument or topic discussion with troll friends with idiotic replys. "

Edit: ptw fix

Edited by Egomane, 03 July 2014 - 10:29 PM.
language

[MischiefSC]

Saying that anyone who brings up P2W is somehow QQing and trying to compensate is just avoiding the obvious.

MW:O has a degree of P2W to it. Not a lot, but some. It stays on the 'manageable' side of the subject but it's there. Ilya, YLW, now Clan Mechs. The original Consumables design (remember that? The MC bought ones were flat out superior)

The reality is that cash buys you more than pure cosmetics in this game. Significantly more. That's just the nature of the game - pretending that it's not isn't helping anyone.

That doesn't mean I don't think it's worth playing, or worth my time, or even worth my money. I just don't see any issue with being honest about it. Nor do I think that having spent money on the game is laudable in any way. The fundamental issue isn't people being dissatisfied with content being held back behind a paywall; especially non-cosmetic content. Content being held back for close to half a year, especially huge content changes like clan mechs.

The problem is people thinking that being the one who paid is the laudable thing. It's alright to spend money where you want - it's your money (and my money) and should be spent where we are getting value and enjoyment out of it. This business model though? Cannibalistic. There's a reason all the other major games in the model have moved away from exclusivity/'sidegrade' and the like content and made everything except pure cosmetics available in game. Divides the community, creates dissatisfaction on one side and entitlement on the other.

[John80sk]

So after somebody was crying about clan mechs being OP in a game, I figured I'd dust off my brawler victor for a match. At the end of the day I ate 2 direwolves and a timberwolf, and neutered a number of other mechs. Cry all you want, a lot of clan mechs being ingame doesn't prove anything other than people are playing with the new shiny.

[Devilsfury]

Dire Wolves running around with 2 gause, 2 erppc, 4 small lasers and run 62k isnt pay to win at all. What are you talking about??? Wait, TW running gause, 2 erppc and running 89k with jj's isnt either....wait....... But at least the rest of the peasants can get them a bit later. So we will call it pay 2 win for the next few months.

Edited by Devilsfury, 29 June 2014 - 07:40 PM.

[Varent]

Devilsfury, on 29 June 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

Dire Wolves running around with 2 gause, 2 erppc, 4 small lasers and run 62k isnt pay to win at all. What are you talking about??? Wait, TW running gause, 2 erppc and running 89k isnt either....wait....... But at least the rest of the peasants can get them a bit later. So we will call it pay 2 win for the next few months.

the victor is still better as a chasis overall. your argument is invalid.

[Devilsfury]

Varent, on 29 June 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

the victor is still better as a chasis overall. your argument is invalid.

No, its not invalid. We all have opinions and they are like @ssholes. We all have one, and they all stink! Next time come up with something more than a f@nboy reply trollboy.

[Koniving]

Ghost Badger, on 23 June 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

No, not P2W. But thanks for making yet ANOTHER thread about it.

Since we're beating on the cow...

Here's another cow to beat on.

[Vercinaigh]

I find it funny that all those talking about balance have never been on anywhere near a top level team...been here since they tournaments started, have been to all of them, dunno any of you, i don't even know you from my elo bracket facing lords and sjr all day.

I'm not sure there is qualifications for "Balance" talk in here...BTW...clans are ******* bat **** OP right now, and are -banned- from all comp play.....just sayin'!