120 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

Kay Wolf, on 22 June 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

If the teams had an even number of Clan 'Mechs and Inner Sphere 'Mechs, say six and six per side, the game is pretty even. However, for each additional Clan 'Mech on the enemy side, our chance of winning drops precipitously. If you're not driving a Clan 'Mech, right now, you're severely limited in what you can do. This last game, on Frozen City, four Omni's came through the North opening of Cave and splashed three of us before we could even react. Three of those 'Mechs they splashed were Omni's, and then me in my little Wolverine.

There's only one Clan 'mech I'm worried about and I doubt you were facing four of them. You can take down plenty of them in IS 'mechs provided you aren't using terribad loadouts. Use your direct, pinpoint, front-loaded damage to your advantage. They don't have it unless they are using one particular 'mech.

Well, there are other ones that can use it too, but there's only one that can use it extremely well.

[anonymous161]

Only reason I even play the game and didn't refund the clan mechs is because they did a pretty good job at balancing. I've seen plenty of back and forth clan and IS being slaughtered.

[Scratx]

Darth Bane001, on 23 June 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

Only reason I even play the game and didn't refund the clan mechs is because they did a pretty good job at balancing. I've seen plenty of back and forth clan and IS being slaughtered.

It was PTS #1's clear "OMG Clans aren't OP" feeling that gave me the impetus to go full Warhawk. Besides the fact that it was the MOST FUN I've had in perhaps months in MWO to be piloting and fighting clan mechs.

I'll be most happy if PGI can keep clans in relative balance with IS, because I think that's really the only way to have the clans in game in a healthy way.

[TamCoan]

I've really found that you just need to fight IS and clan mech differently. (As already stated multiple times.) I tend to do really well with my IS mechs, they just seem sturdier than clan. Plus IS isn't so dependent on arm weapons. To the OP, I think you really need to detach yourself from what you think is happening in the game and instead look for ways to be more effective vs. clan. I know it's difficult to do if you can't actually pilot a clan mech, but it is possible if you take your time in each match and observe how the clans work. A few things that may help you:

- Clan light mechs are slow by comparison. The fastest stock mech is like 97kps. Pretty much every single IS light, and some mediums, can outrun them. (Generally a clan light turns into a free kill.)
- Most clan weapons are DOTs with a longer fire time, twisting really mitigates much of their potential.
- Clan mechs tend to overheat faster than IS as most clan pilots are firing more weapons in larger groups.
- Clans put most of their weapons in their arms! Taking an arm off can result in a 50% reduction in effectiveness!
- Clans lack AMS! Many builds forgo AMS as it's pretty difficult to fit that into a build. Think about taking a NARC, they hate that!
- I think there's currently only a single clan mech with ECM.

As far as looking at your KDR, I really do wish they would take that stat off. It really has little meaning as you can do awesome in a match and never get a kill. Likewise you can kill-hunt, holding your fire until you know you can get a kill, and really hurt your team.

[Varent]

Kay Wolf, on 22 June 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

I was never a really good player to begin with.

That pretty much explains the whole post. Clans are not OP. Learn their weaknesses and exploit them. Play to the strengths of the inner sphere. If you are doing the same thing against Clan mechs as you were against inner sphere mechs and expecting the same results then your going to have problems. Clan mechs have no true direct fire except clan erppc and gause, which have severe draw backs. They also are overall more fragile. (Hit boxes, arm positioning, non standard, weapon and ammo placements)

This doesnt even go into the fact of the super slow lights or the god awful slow dire wolf. Are the heavies on the fast side? Sure... but honestly id take a jump sniping 3d any day of the week over the timber wolf still in anything competitive. It simply does it better. And dont even get me started on the victor....

Clans OP..... *scoffs*

[Kraven Kor]

I cannot believe I am saying this, but... thus far... things seem more or less balanced.

To me.

Your results may vary, and certainly all anecdotal evidence.

Hell, I almost wish they *weren't* as balanced as they are and would prefer a more "classic" interpretation even if I don't have any desire to play as the clans.

But I seem to be doing no better or worse now than before.

*shrug*

[VIPER2207]

Kay Wolf, on 22 June 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

If I want to have any opportunity to save my KDR whatsoever, for a time when the game will be fixed, I have to stop playing.

Why do you even care about your KDR? It's a stupid number only you can see, nobody else out there. So why care about it? Why are you defining your enjoyment or whatever you call it with such a single number? As a dedicated spotter for example, you would never be able to get a positive KDR, because you would simply do no kills. This game is not about who the biggest killer is.
PGI should really remove the KDR and the W/L...

[Atheus]

Wolfways, on 22 June 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

Nothing wrong with wanting to measure your accomplishments, but imo in a team-based game KDR means very little as you (you as in a single player) are not doing the killing, your whole team are. If it was one-on-one it would matter.
I'm not saying the OP does this, but nothing annoys me more than a player who runs off to hide somewhere when it looks like his team are going to lose because he wants to protect his KDR

If you don't like the game then stop playing, but don't stop to protect a fairly pointless stat.

Oh, and i never said anything about the OP. I responded to you saying people were "pretending to never take an interest in your own KDR". Just pointing out that not everyone cares about it.

I'm sure that the KDR stat is not the reason he is stopping, but instead is symbolic of the sacrifice he would have to make to continue playing. If you must accept playing at a disadvantage, your KDR will be the first casualty, but it's the fact that you can only play at a disadvantage unless you fork out some cash that is the outrage. That's a perfectly good reason to stop playing even if the transitory gameplay is somewhat enjoyable. It's called protest, and voting with your wallet. I will not be forking over my time or money to a company that embraces such blatant pay to win policies.

But on another note, I also don't particularly pay attention to my KDR, but that doesn't stop me from glancing at it when I pop over to my stats page for some data, and sure enough I have that little voice in my head that goes "well at least I don't suck!". If I happened through there and saw my KDR suddenly driven below 1.0 for the first time ever and I knew the only reason was the clan release, yeah I'd be angry all over again.

[TamCoan]

VIPER2207, on 23 June 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

Why do you even care about your KDR? It's a stupid number only you can see, nobody else out there. So why care about it? Why are you defining your enjoyment or whatever you call it with such a single number? As a dedicated spotter for example, you would never be able to get a positive KDR, because you would simply do no kills. This game is not about who the biggest killer is.
PGI should really remove the KDR and the W/L...

If you're a little OCD like me, when given stats and numbers to track, it's pretty hard to ignore it. I know it means nothing to how well I'm playing the game, but seeing that number in the green does something to the brain. Watching that number fall triggers the desire to bring the number up. It's part of the reason why I hate "gamification" as it really causes problems for many people.

I'd love for them to just remove it from the profile stats page. It would remove that itch in the back of the brain to look at it...

[DasaDevil]

Kay Wolf, on 22 June 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

I was never a really good player to begin with

There's your problem. Clan mechs have a higher learning curve and those that manage to learn and get proficient with them are, ultimately, better pilots than you and would win anyways. So don't cry nerf when people are simply better players.

Edited by DasaDevil, 23 June 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[Threat Doc]

Wolfways, on 22 June 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

I'm not saying the OP does this, but nothing annoys me more than a player who runs off to hide somewhere when it looks like his team are going to lose because he wants to protect his KDR

That's probably actually my problem right there, is that I tend to use my LRMs for what I'm supposed to use them for, close when I need to, drop back when I need to, and generally I'm right up there with my Lancemates, otherwise.

[Bishop Steiner]

Vassago Rain, on 23 June 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

Did you seriously get an alt for your clan grab deal package?

Nope. I seriously had an alt account to be able to play in peace without my forum notoriety following me (and test new builds on). It's astounding how much less focus fire my alt account gets.

But since I already had it, when I decided to get my Pack, I put it on there, as ti simply would not look right for someone named "Bishop Steiner" to be driving a Clan Mech. Unless that Clan is Clan Cloud Cobra, but since they never invade that would still be moot.

The nice part is it allows me to essentially have "clean stats" under each tech type for, for comparison.

Even unlocked, only my Timberwolf comes close to the stats my other primary IS mechs run.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 June 2014 - 09:43 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kraven Kor, on 23 June 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

I cannot believe I am saying this, but... thus far... things seem more or less balanced.

To me.

Your results may vary, and certainly all anecdotal evidence.

Hell, I almost wish they *weren't* as balanced as they are and would prefer a more "classic" interpretation even if I don't have any desire to play as the clans.

But I seem to be doing no better or worse now than before.

*shrug*

I've actually had my main account KDr (aka Inner Sphere) go UP, and my alt account (Clan) go down. Now the drop in the Clan was to be expected, as new builds, locked chassis, etc.

What was surprising was to see a noticeable improvement in stats on my main, considering how broad my sample size is (20,000 + drops), it should take a LOT to swing my stats up or down appreciably.

Scratx, on 23 June 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

It was PTS #1's clear "OMG Clans aren't OP" feeling that gave me the impetus to go full Warhawk. Besides the fact that it was the MOST FUN I've had in perhaps months in MWO to be piloting and fighting clan mechs.

I'll be most happy if PGI can keep clans in relative balance with IS, because I think that's really the only way to have the clans in game in a healthy way.

Exactly. I had bought the Thor pack, because I'm a sucker for a Summoner. But it was after 2 days of the Test Server, and being impressed not with the power, but the overall balance of the Clan Mechs, that decided me to go Full Masakari.

Only mech I had reservations on, overall, was the TimberWolf-S, and I still feel it is a little broken. Not immensely, just enough to be an outlier to the balance, like C-ER Small Lasers and Gauss.

[no1madcow]

I personally am going to quit playing this game as long as it remains a pay to win game. Most of the people i see saying the clan mechs are not op are the people using the clan mechs. everyone else agrees that the clam mechs are over powered and since the only way you can get a clam mech is to PAY for it, this game has become PAY TO WIN.

I will check back from time to time to see if PGI fixes this terrible mismatch of power they have given to their PAY to play users..

GOOD LUCK PGI, Titamfall here i come...

[Mott]

no1madcow, on 23 June 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

I personally am going to quit playing this game as long as it remains a pay to win game. Most of the people i see saying the clan mechs are not op are the people using the clan mechs. everyone else agrees that the clam mechs are over powered and since the only way you can get a clam mech is to PAY for it, this game has become PAY TO WIN.

I will check back from time to time to see if PGI fixes this terrible mismatch of power they have given to their PAY to play users..

GOOD LUCK PGI, Titamfall here i come...

You're welcome to drop with a few of the Ransom's Corsairs. We have several pilots who refuse to pilot Clan mechs and excel at making Clanners regret their package purchase. I'm sure they could help you hone your tactics so you'd have no problem facing clantech moving forward.

Disapirro for instance loves his FS9 and averaged 3 kills per match and 500+ damage over i believe 6 drops with me and another Corsair last night. Arkadash loves his assaults and while he's trying out the Direwolf and Masa, he's absolutely lethal in a Stalker and i'd bet on him over any Direwolf 1vs1.

I love the clan mediums (nova & stormcrow) but i've made enough mistakes in both to be able to show you how to easily and quickly dispatch them with pretty much any IS mech you want to pilot.

The game isn't broke mate, just your perception is. Let's mend it.

[Atheus]

Mott, on 23 June 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

You're welcome to drop with a few of the Ransom's Corsairs. We have several pilots who refuse to pilot Clan mechs and excel at making Clanners regret their package purchase. I'm sure they could help you hone your tactics so you'd have no problem facing clantech moving forward.

Disapirro for instance loves his FS9 and averaged 3 kills per match and 500+ damage over i believe 6 drops with me and another Corsair last night. Arkadash loves his assaults and while he's trying out the Direwolf and Masa, he's absolutely lethal in a Stalker and i'd bet on him over any Direwolf 1vs1.

I love the clan mediums (nova & stormcrow) but i've made enough mistakes in both to be able to show you how to easily and quickly dispatch them with pretty much any IS mech you want to pilot.

The game isn't broke mate, just your perception is. Let's mend it.

I have to say while I disagree with your estimation of the potential of Clan tech, your attitude toward your fellow players is top notch. It's disgusting to me how many players seem to enjoy watching the player base diminish due to their perception of what's going on in the game, whether they're right or wrong. Cheers to you.

[Joseph Mallan]

I understand your Frustration Kay. As a Lyran I have...6 Years till the Wolves become fellow citizens. BUT we are only playing Open Que right now and Clanners need to shake down their Rides before CW. Now when CW gets here, I expect the Pull Tops off my team and in front of my guns.

[KAT Ayanami]

Bobby Blast, on 22 June 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

Sorry man I just got into my stalker and rained pain down on the enemy with 1100 damage. If you think IS mech are sub par your wrong, Cataphracts, Jagers, Stalkers, PPC Spiders, and Catapults are really effective against clan mechs, not to mention the Victor Metaslayer is strong as ever. I guess what I mean to say is L2P...

People like you should STOP with the L2p nonsense. Just because you did one or two good games on an ASSAULT mech does not mean that the game isnt broken.

I am TIRED of reading "IS mechs have pinpoint FLD" What good is that against Clanners????

- Long Range: Clan Mechs have MUCH LONGER reach. Which means that we cannot hit with FLD before taking 50 hits and have our screen shake like crazy (even with module).
- Short Range: What good is FLD??? If you are 200m away, you are not going to miss with your Clan lasers and AC. And forget about turning around to cover the torso. Clan Mechs will destroy your arms faster than you can rotate back.

I do not care if Clans are OP. They have ALWAYS been OP. On any game. I do not care if this game is P2W or not either. I gave up on PGI after a year of playing this game and the constant lies and money items.

What really bothers me is Clan Mech users saying L2P. Kay Wolf does NOT need to learn how to play to have an opinion about the shape of the game.

We are NOT asking to Nerf the clans, we are just asking that the sides are evenly matched!! Either with same amount of clan mechs per side, or IS vs Clan with clan restrictions. Period

[EyeOne]

KAT Ayanami, on 23 June 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Just because you did one or two good games on an ASSAULT mech does not mean that the game isnt broken.

Doesn't mean it is broken either.

KAT Ayanami, on 23 June 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Kay Wolf does NOT need to learn how to play to have an opinion about the shape of the game.

Not saying Kay does need to learn to play, but that isn't necessarily true.

KAT Ayanami, on 23 June 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

I am TIRED of reading "IS mechs have pinpoint FLD" What good is that against Clanners????

Seriously? A LOT! It's a lot against everything, why would it not matter against Clans?

KAT Ayanami, on 23 June 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

- Long Range: Clan Mechs have MUCH LONGER reach. Which means that we cannot hit with FLD before taking 50 hits and have our screen shake like crazy (even with module).

That's a heck of an exaggeration.

[TamCoan]

Pros and Cons to both sides. Having an opinion when you've only seen one side of the fence doesn't invalidate the opinion from people who have been on both sides.

I'd love it if people who only play IS and say "clan is OP" would take the advice offered into game and see how it does for them. I never see anyone willing to do that...