394 replies to this topic

[Demuder]

Boris The Spider, on 25 June 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

There is no irony there, the players who you guys have be decrying as Pugstompers for all this time are totally supportive of this change.

Perhaps if there is any irony to be found here, its that this change empowers the large houses and competitive groups who were doing the stomping even further and that you and your ilk on this thread have confirmed what I have always said about you; that while you guys claimed to be arguing the cause for new and casual players, you were not, as we can see by you gleefully rubbing your hands together at the concept of 2 man groups, casual and new players (the ones who are actually complaining on this thread) having to fight as filler in the large group queue. All you ever wanted was someone else to be the PUG, but at least you guys are admitting it now.

Although, while I find your ribbing of casual grouped players utterly distasteful, I disagree with the idea of opting in and out of the large group queue. It should be handled with Elo, if a groups Elo is high enough, they should be automatically enrolled into the the large group queue, if its low, then they should be last on the picking list. If they get stomped every round the system should self correct and they should find themselves back in the small group queue again, which is how I suspect it will work in practice anyway. Its going to hurt them for a while, but should improve over time.

That said, if this works well, as I hope it does, and the matchmaker is able to handle small/casual/low Elo grouped players, its going to be hard for PGI to justify keeping the solo queue, especially when they add VOIP and complete the larger matchmaker re-write that is needed for CW and faction matching.

That's a very well written and concise post. However, I don't understand why you are directing your reply to me. Maybe you should try and convince the people in this thread that are asking for an option to queue their 2-4 premade only in the solo queue instead of the big boys queue.

Btw, all "we guys" ever wanted was the option to a purely solo queue. We are still not getting that, I wonder why.

[Jack Corban]

MuonNeutrino, on 23 June 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Any is too often. I do not want to play with large groups of people in the public queue. If I wanted that, I would be on a team and dropping in the 12s queue. 10+2 vs 12 is only one of the possible bad outcomes. I don't want to be in any 2+2+4+4 vs 10+2, or 6+2+4 vs 8+4, or 2+2+3+5 vs 4+4+4 games either, or anything like that. Groups of players have a massively disproportionately high chance of being filled with poptarts and other assorted unpleasant meta mechs and/or unpleasant meta pilots. I do not want to play with them.

Then stop playing. There is the door Ciao

[Boris The Spider]

Demuder, on 26 June 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

That's a very well written and concise post. However, I don't understand why you are directing your reply to me. Maybe you should try and convince the people in this thread that are asking for an option to queue their 2-4 premade only in the solo queue instead of the big boys queue.

Btw, all "we guys" ever wanted was the option to a purely solo queue. We are still not getting that, I wonder why.

At its most basic level, because a tournament winner such as Proton should not be able to opt into an easier matchmaker than two new players in trail mechs. I'm firmly of the opinion and always have been that low Elo players should play in a mostly solo environment and high Elo players should play in a mostly grouped environment, there should be no choice in this, and electing to group up should not ramp the difficulty level up as it discourages new players from ever grouping up.

[Chopsaw]

JJ thrust adjustments? Yay! PLEASE give light mechs a huge boost in JJ thrust. It is ridiculous for a 5-12 JJ light mech to ever so slowly float up. JJ's on lights are more of a death sentence as you lose all forward movement and are an easy target while slowly ascending, usually bumping up even small rocks as you go. Light mechs should JUMP, not liftoff like the space shuttle. Currently, JJ's are useful for only poptarts and non-combat maneuvers.

[Armadeux]

Looking good.

Falling damage seems like a very fair and realisticly feeling idea.
Am exited about 3333 and am looking foreward to see what my commando will feel like with a command console....

[Jolly Llama]

Heffay, on 25 June 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

Except it does. *sigh*

I guess we'll see next week.

Except it doesn't. Hide and watch, we will get another free premium day out of a patch gone wrong.

[Xigunder Blue]

Ummm...more heat problems and a resulting decrease in combat and combat capability. Combat will be centering on managing heat column instead of wild and wonderful combat. Make a mistake and lose your mech while waiting (or override). Another nerf - and it will be done. Another distraction from situational awareness and skill. Do not care for pop-up snipers myself but don't care for the way they are being nerfed. Everybody gets nerfed, that will show us!

[Triordinant]

It's still screwed. There must be a premade-free, solo-only queue and a group queue for all groups sizes (if 11-man groups are left out, so be it). Let solos fight solos and groups fight groups. It works for so many other games. What's the holdup?

[Cimarb]

Triordinant, on 29 June 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

It's still screwed. There must be a premade-free, solo-only queue and a group queue for all groups sizes (if 11-man groups are left out, so be it). Let solos fight solos and groups fight groups. It works for so many other games. What's the holdup?

The holdup is we don't all agree. I don't want a solo-only queue. I want to be in the group queue whether I am in a group or not, as the quality of match is immensely better there.

[Jabilo]

Jets need to give more thrust. A lot more! Plus more fuel. A lot more!

We should be able to rise above the battlefield on trails of super heated iron. Leap on to a tall building, or jump over an opponent, spin 360 degress and land in his rear arc to surprise him. All the stuff that happens in the books and lore.

At the moment, even with full jets, jump capability is anaemic.

So how do we have fun, effective jets without promoting jump sniping?

Good question!.

First of all require landings to be properly feathered. Well you are doing that, so that's good. But give us lots of fuel and thrust to do it with.

Increased heat generation will handle people pop sniping with heat based weapon such as lasers and PPCs but will not stop ballistic pop tarts.

I have seen a lot of people suggest that heavy ballistics should impart recoil that makes you unstable if you jump and fire. Good idea!

In any case, we need the awesome jets of lore, and the way to nerf jump sniping is not to just nerf jets until they are useless. Think outside the box!

Edited by Jabilo, 29 June 2014 - 12:47 PM.

[Triordinant]

Cimarb, on 29 June 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

The holdup is we don't all agree. I don't want a solo-only queue. I want to be in the group queue whether I am in a group or not, as the quality of match is immensely better there.

In the version most of us want, solo players can opt to join the group queue if they want to. It's in all my old posts about the subject.

[Cimarb]

Triordinant, on 29 June 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

In the version most of us want, solo players can opt to join the group queue if they want to. It's in all my old posts about the subject.

I agree with that version, but it isn't the one you presented above.

[Magna Canus]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

Shouldn't be ok, from a "logic and realism" standpoint, but not necessarily from a game balance standpoint.

As things are, Jump Jets are extremely valuable from a mobility viewpoint. This is amplified by our map design and movement rules - after all, mechs equally should be able to climb steeper slopes, being bipedal and in many cases even having hands.

But this change does nothing but widens the gap between Jump and Non-Jump mechs, in essence making the jump jets an even better deal than previously.

Consider, before the change, you'd be comparing a Victor to a, say, Stalker, and asking if the Jump Jet(s) where worth the cost in tonnage.

That decision becomes easier with this change, because it doesn't hurt JJ mechs but does further endanger non JJ mechs.



This is it. As it stands, given out map design and movement rules, non jumping mechs are already at an enormous disadvantage in mobility on almost every map. This just makes that worse, so you've got players unable to assist in combats because their mobility has been even more curtailed without any gain.

This change makes the Atlas - already unable to climb back out of whatever hole he falls into - unwilling to fall into the hole in the first place. Thus, this nerf, ostensibly a JJ nerf, is actually nerfing non-jumping mechs the most... and we're already in a place where jumping mechs have a substantial advantage.

If neither of you mind I would like to chine in on this discussion. What the "JJ Nerf" really does is add to the level of tactical complexity of the game rather than invalidate non-JJ mechs. We may see a surge of JJ mechs for a while after the patch, but this will naturalize once tactics change and people remember the inherent advantages of their non-JJ mechs. For example, ECM, higher comparative daka, higher weapon placement, etc. Other JJ capable mechs may get relived like the Catapult that has become rare on the field.

People are going to have to change their tactics from what was before to what is to come. Non-JJ lights will receive an advantage for example because all those stalkers and Atlai will think twice about dropping over the cliff en mass to chase them down. Land speed becomes more of an advantage. Ramps and bridges become high value choke points. JJ mechs might find themselves overextending their team and support as well. This might even force mechs that shave off massive amounts of leg armor in favor of more ACs/Ammo to tone down their firepower and put more armor on their legs.

Let's see how the cards fall after they have been shuffled this coming Wednesday before we declare the JJ mech the undisputed king of MWO.

[Sjorpha]

These changes sound great, can't wait to get my computer back from service and try this!

To those requesting a "solo que only" option for small groups: While I understand the concerns, priority 1 must be to make the new system actually work and 2-4 groups will be necessary to complete teams. It's obviously not worth the risk of having to many small groups opting out of the group que thus breaking the system. The MWO population isn't that big after all, and each variable added makes the MM less likely to work fast and smooth.

If anything they should allow solo players the option to volounteer as team fillers for the group que to grease the system up a bit, there is already a number of players in this thread confirming they would be happy to do this. So would I, though it should probably pick the best solo players first. It could be a toggle in the game settings so you don't have to check it for each match, most such players would probably be solid players looking for a challenge and wanting it always on.

Sad to not see JJ heat yet. Not sure if it makes sense to have JJ heat scale up linearily with the number of jumpjets. The fewer you have the harder they should have to work to lift you, so IMO it would make sense if each new JJ added a little less heat than the first.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

3x4 cant come soon enough!

I will wait tell I try the new fall dmg on lights to cast judgement, but from what I read from test you can spit at a lights leg and blow it off. That wont be good. I only play lights and cant take much more light nurfing.

[Cimarb]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 01 July 2014 - 02:50 AM, said:

3x4 cant come soon enough!

I will wait tell I try the new fall dmg on lights to cast judgement, but from what I read from test you can spit at a lights leg and blow it off. That wont be good. I only play lights and cant take much more light nurfing.

It wasn't that bad in testing, and that was with harsher damage numbers than will be going into live. Use your JJs smartly and you wont have to worry about it.

Edit for typo

Edited by Cimarb, 01 July 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

I'm so buying a big bucket of popcorn and a few beers for this one.

Hell I might even download it, and log in, for the first time in nearly two weeks, just so I can experience the joy, first hand and not through rage posts

Jack Corban, on 26 June 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Then stop playing. There is the door Ciao

So daddy please tell me, why did Mech Warrior Online become extinct ..

Jiggered if I can tell you son

[Calh Paw]

As a solo player, I would like to have the option to drop in the group queue.

[BAD WD40]

Ok this sounds like a great Patch, I think you should be able to create a group other than 2-4, I play with normally 4-8 in TS and when a couple drop out its always unfair on the odd one or two not in a four man. Most loyal MWO folk are already playing in groups like this and these guys are the long time MWO loyal types you want (PGI) so if you get complaints from PUGS that come and go then try and encourage them to join groups like ours. Its not only group play but many thoughts are created and passed on good or bad to PGI.
Its about time that Jump jetting snipers are addressed in the game, look at the last house competition and you will se that the winning team had all there Mechs stripped of armour and and were installed with x2 PPC and x2 AC5, all with jump jets, what a crap approach to have to take to become winners, its not there fault though!! The game has to be changed to stop this and I am 100% behind PGI here.
Just hope the game copes with all the new changes and long let there be more for the good of the game and community.

Edited by Bad Wind UK, 02 July 2014 - 03:28 PM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Mixing 12 man teams with smaller teams is your worst decision by far. That is as nice as it can be said. Would like to say more, but it is all ban-able at best.