394 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

Its fine that they want to give some hurdles to the poptarts, but I fear this is going to end up as a metaphorical boat anchor keeping me grounded on a lot the mechs I like jumping around the battlefield on. I use a lot of lasers so firing in the air isn't really something I do much of anyway since it is not particularly effective, but I do jump around a lot on my Highlander's and Summoner's and will be pretty frustrated if I feel locked to the ground because of the damage they will take from jumping.

[Wildstreak]

Since we will get into it:

Mechs with no JJs on any variant
Locust
Commando
Kit Fox
Adder
Cicada
Centurion
Hunchback
Kintaro
Stormcrow
Dragon
Jagermech
Orion
Timber Wolf
Awesome
Battlemaster
Stalker
Banshee
Atlas
Warhawk
DireWolf

Total
IS - 2 of 6 Lights, 4 of 9 Mediums, 3 of 7 Heavies, 5 of 7 Assaults, 14 of 29 Mechs
Clan - Both Lights, 1 of 2 Mediums, 1 of 2 Heavies, Both Assaults, 6 of 8 Mechs

Half of IS Mechs and three quarters of Clan.
This does not include those with variants of both (JJ and no JJ).
Do you actually think based on one Conquest point on one map people will stop playing over half the Mechs available?

Military games including CBT have always had players faced with choices such as less mobile units (no JJ) needing to find a way to approach a point navigating around terrain. Less choices makes a less interesting game, it just becomes, "Kill, kill, kill." People should be planning when they go into a match how best to approach various Conquest points.

[Wildstreak]

Besides, we are just making guesses without the exact math of this new method.

As I explained in detail twice here, something seems off in Mr. Schmidt's presentation. By my current math,
20 tonners will take 0.24-0.336 fall damage
25 tonners will take 0.36-0.504 fall damage
30 tonners will take 0.42-0.588 fall damage
35 tonners will take 0.48-0.672 fall damage
40 tonners will take 1.2-1.68 fall damage
45 tonners will take 1.32-1.848 fall damage
50 tonners will take 1.44-2.016 fall damage
55 tonners will take 1.56-2.184 fall damage
60 tonners will take 2.52-3.528 fall damage
65 tonners will take 2.7-3.78 fall damage
70 tonners will take 2.7-3.78 fall damage
75 tonners will take 2.88-4.032 fall damage
80 tonners will take 4.08-5.712 fall damage
85 tonners will take 4.32-6.048 fall damage
90 tonners will take 4.56-6.384 fall damage
95 tonners will take 4.8-6.72 fall damage
100 tonners will take 5.04-7.056 fall damage

Note, these are based on bringing max leg armor (if less at match start, damage is less) and lower than what Mr. Schmidt said so far. Since he also says actual numbers will be in patch notes, I would really demand those for the Public Testers.

Also of important note people are getting too worked up about this new Falling Damage and ignoring the later changes to JJ Thrust and Heat that were said to have been pushed back. Once those are in, JJ Mechs will be getting their own nerf.

[Boris The Spider]

Demuder, on 24 June 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

Every solo player that ever asked for an option for a solo only queue on these forums was ridiculed by the premade crowd as a "whiner", "skilless kiddie who can't play to win", "untisocial pug who doesn't want to make new friends".

Suddenly, the same crowd is asking for an option to opt out of the bigger group queues. The irony of this will resound in the ages.

There is no irony there, the players who you guys have be decrying as Pugstompers for all this time are totally supportive of this change.

Perhaps if there is any irony to be found here, its that this change empowers the large houses and competitive groups who were doing the stomping even further and that you and your ilk on this thread have confirmed what I have always said about you; that while you guys claimed to be arguing the cause for new and casual players, you were not, as we can see by you gleefully rubbing your hands together at the concept of 2 man groups, casual and new players (the ones who are actually complaining on this thread) having to fight as filler in the large group queue. All you ever wanted was someone else to be the PUG, but at least you guys are admitting it now.

Although, while I find your ribbing of casual grouped players utterly distasteful, I disagree with the idea of opting in and out of the large group queue. It should be handled with Elo, if a groups Elo is high enough, they should be automatically enrolled into the the large group queue, if its low, then they should be last on the picking list. If they get stomped every round the system should self correct and they should find themselves back in the small group queue again, which is how I suspect it will work in practice anyway. Its going to hurt them for a while, but should improve over time.

That said, if this works well, as I hope it does, and the matchmaker is able to handle small/casual/low Elo grouped players, its going to be hard for PGI to justify keeping the solo queue, especially when they add VOIP and complete the larger matchmaker re-write that is needed for CW and faction matching.

[Malleus011]

Cautiously optimistic. This sounds good, let's wait and see how it's implemented.

I still dislike 3/3/3/3 and prefer weight matching, but (finally) bringing back real groups should really help gameplay.

Waiting to see what the JJ and falling fixes actually do. Too many PGI nerfs have done nothing to poptarts but hurt jump-brawlers and canon 'mechs instead.

If things live up to their promise, I might see my way to spending a little $ on MWO again.

[Deathlike]

warner2, on 25 June 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

I'd prefer the reverse. When in a lobby the "Mech Select" button is OK but I can't go into mechlab to change my 'mech. Why not? I have to leave lobby and ask someone for a re-invite. I need to be able to access mechlab whilst in a lobby.

Conversely I hope the ability to go to mechlab when in a group has not been removed at the same time as adding the "Mech Select" button to the group window. That cannot happen.

Well, unlike the lobby that "locks you in", the addition of it in the group "lobby" is fine as you can still do what you did in that lobby... which is to go back to the mechlab and edit it there. The mini-version in the group lobby is used better for replenishing consumables as you don't need a full fledged mechlab for that (although, an auto-consumable rebuy option would be preferable).

[Felio]

Ghost Badger, on 23 June 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Did you miss the part where it's scalar? Ie...weight-based? Mediums, and ESPECIALLY lights, are going to be barely effected.

There's a reason why I wrote "heavy and assault" in the post you quoted me on.

Better yet, read the Command Post.

Your little metal arthropod is gonna be fine.

It bothers me that so many people liked this post when it is factually and provably wrong.

[RLBell]

P4riah1, on 23 June 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

Problem is the 12 man queue right now is hard to get games going because it only matches against other 12mans, so few people use it except for organized events. Allowing more freedom in the group queue lets them set up matches easier which is a good thing by itself. (For me, it makes group queues more attractive to comp players and keeps them away from me, but that's just me)

The fact that PGI seems to think that just because I'm in a pair or a casual stream 4man that I want to be matched up against these SUPER SERIAL people is a problem. Give me the option to stay the hell away from the group queue and I'll be happy.

It's also slightly naive to think that all they want to do is practice against equal skilled players. If that were the case they would already stay in the 12man and private games, despite the inconvenience. They LOVE crushing and trolling lower ELO players and everybody knows it. It's how they get off.

The twelve man queue was a victim of the competitive twelve man teams. The learning curve was too steep and losing 0-12 stops being fun real fast, and provided no opportunity for the lower skilled twelve man players to learn anything besides "this is less likely to happen in a pug drop", so the pool of players willing to face the tier one teams shrank down to only other highly competitive twelve man teams.

Private twelve on twelve matches (for those of us blessed with twenty-three, or more, friends) has effectively killed all desire I may have for the twelve man queue.

[Roland]

RLBell, on 25 June 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

The twelve man queue was a victim of the competitive twelve man teams. The learning curve was too steep and losing 0-12 stops being fun real fast, and provided no opportunity for the lower skilled twelve man players to learn anything besides "this is less likely to happen in a pug drop", so the pool of players willing to face the tier one teams shrank down to only other highly competitive twelve man teams.

Private twelve on twelve matches (for those of us blessed with twenty-three, or more, friends) has effectively killed all desire I may have for the twelve man queue.

The big problem that the 12 man queue had, was that it was just very hard for most groups to get exactly 12 players together to play.

You'd get 4 guys.. cool, everything is ok.

Then that 5th guy comes along, and it's suddenly a pain in the ass. You gotta start breaking groups up,or folks have to play alone, etc.

And that would continue up until you had exactly 12 guys. Which would often take a very long time, if it happened at all, because during that whole period between 5-12 guys it's a pain in the ass.. which makes it less fun, which makes folks less likely to stick around instead of going to find other stuff to do. And if you actually DID get 12, and then anyone had to go...the whole thing went to crap and you had to break up the whole group into smaller ones, but generally at that point folks just said, "F-This" and you'd call it a night.

So the requirement of having exactly 12 guys actually made it harder to get 12 guys. That was the critical recursive failure that constituted the essence of the player cap.

[Cimarb]

On top of what Roland said, the horrible grouping system made matches difficult even when you DID have 12 people. That resulted in only the most dedicated, hardcore people that could even stand to attempt 12-mans.

The Launch module and now large group sizes should make the curve much more linear.

[Pygar]

Merchant, on 25 June 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Besides, we are just making guesses without the exact math of this new method.

As I explained in detail twice here, something seems off in Mr. Schmidt's presentation. By my current math,
20 tonners will take 0.24-0.336 fall damage
25 tonners will take 0.36-0.504 fall damage
30 tonners will take 0.42-0.588 fall damage
35 tonners will take 0.48-0.672 fall damage
40 tonners will take 1.2-1.68 fall damage
45 tonners will take 1.32-1.848 fall damage
50 tonners will take 1.44-2.016 fall damage
55 tonners will take 1.56-2.184 fall damage
60 tonners will take 2.52-3.528 fall damage
65 tonners will take 2.7-3.78 fall damage
70 tonners will take 2.7-3.78 fall damage
75 tonners will take 2.88-4.032 fall damage
80 tonners will take 4.08-5.712 fall damage
85 tonners will take 4.32-6.048 fall damage
90 tonners will take 4.56-6.384 fall damage
95 tonners will take 4.8-6.72 fall damage
100 tonners will take 5.04-7.056 fall damage

Note, these are based on bringing max leg armor (if less at match start, damage is less) and lower than what Mr. Schmidt said so far. Since he also says actual numbers will be in patch notes, I would really demand those for the Public Testers.

Also of important note people are getting too worked up about this new Falling Damage and ignoring the later changes to JJ Thrust and Heat that were said to have been pushed back. Once those are in, JJ Mechs will be getting their own nerf.

I've read enough about this today: They need to scrap this idea, and they need to devise a nerf that only affects pop tarts instead of affecting everybody when the intended target is pop tarts.

[Grey Death Storm]

Hi Guys

How is 3333 system is working ?

I do have an Idea how about you offer option for public players the ability to switch between 12 vs 12 to 8 vs 8 game queues as I am finding winning a match strongly comes down to how good your entire team plays !!. If you are good player you can take down 2 - 3 mechs in 12 vs 12 match that will not help if rest your team is killed it doesnt even turn the tied in battle depending if your team has been completely wiped out. 8 vs 8 if you manage take 2 - 3 enemies out you have turned the tied in battle.

Just so everyone understands Im not saying Ditch 12 vs 12, what i would like see is an option in public queue for 8 vs 8 so players can choose if they wish play in 12 vs 12 or go into 8 vs 8 queue instead. Im personally not enjoying 12 vs 12 due fact depending on how well your team works will be the deciding factor for winning a battle I have lost 5 - 8 games in a row duo bad team management and it can get frustrating.

As for the Elo system I not sure how it work some people have explained to me that if you have a higher base number you get put in to weaker team help bolster their defence. That doesn't work to well when your entire team get wiped out. Now I could be wrong in Elo system however its point i wanted to make and i find it can get frustrating.

Please forgive me guy I am not trying come over being arrogant or rude in any way but thought Id voice some my concerns. I don't know how other players feel express your thoughts.

[XX Sulla XX]

My main concern about this patch is the fall damage.

The problems I think it will have unless tweeked.

1. It will hurt jumping brawlers and do nothing to hurt jump sniping. (Again)

2. It will hurt light mechs more than any other class.

3. In hurting jumping brawlers it will move game back to more hill cresting sniping in midle Elo and make jump sniping still the meta at higher Elo.

4. It will encourage mechs only to use jump jets for hoping turns and to go over obstacles. Because of damage and even more so with heat in the future.

If you insist on adding this to the game more though needs to go into it. Thing that would probably help.

1. Make it much easier to land with jump jets to cusion your fall. You only want damage to legs when landing without trying to use jump jets to cushion your fall. If it is to hard it hurts people using them for brawing because of the nature of these battles. At the same time a jump sniper behind a hill has all the time in the world to make sure the landing is soft.

2. Turn down the over all damage. This mechanic will never be a fix for jump sniping so it is only to keep people from doing stupid things with jump jets. That can be done with a very low amount of damage that builds up over a match.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 25 June 2014 - 02:29 PM.

[R Razor]

Meh......matchmaker adjustments are an overall failure with the sole exception being that it does at least try and keep the same number of mechs in each class on a team............which means nothing and does nothing to alleviate the metajunk we've been stuck with forever now. Good job guys.

[Kharax]

Whats about new Maps???

[Jolly Llama]

No 3/3/3/3! I paid for many mechs and played for the rest. I want to play what I desire without the stupid wait times. This game is about skill and not tonnage or role. This is a game killer for me and a lot of other people. I will not tolerate long wait times between matches again.

[Heffay]

geodeath, on 25 June 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

No 3/3/3/3! I paid for many mechs and played for the rest. I want to play what I desire without the stupid wait times. This game is about skill and not tonnage or role. This is a game killer for me and a lot of other people. I will not tolerate long wait times between matches again.

Don't worry, the populations will self balance. Even if you don't want to play a lower populated class, others will and the ratios will be roughly equal. And even if they aren't there are relief valves in place to prevent your wait time from being too long. It's not like WoW, where you'll have to wait 30 minutes to get into a match.

[Jolly Llama]

Heffay, on 25 June 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

Don't worry, the populations will self balance. Even if you don't want to play a lower populated class, others will and the ratios will be roughly equal. And even if they aren't there are relief valves in place to prevent your wait time from being too long. It's not like WoW, where you'll have to wait 30 minutes to get into a match.

That is what they said the last two times they have done this. It does not work and does nothing for balance.

[Heffay]

geodeath, on 25 June 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

That is what they said the last two times they have done this. It does not work and does nothing for balance.

Except it does. *sigh*

I guess we'll see next week.

[mazza11]

Woot for larger groups. I'm assuming premades will have a limit if 3 mechs per weight class?

Remaining optimistic about jj nerf. But I only hope it doesn't nerf the average player more than the poptarter. After the last tournie, it put it into perspective of how superior this meta is instead of the rock/paper/scissor mechanic we should be seeing.