178 replies to this topic

[DI3T3R]

Sounds good. Really.

Mayhem McCrea, on 27 June 2014 - 04:23 AM, said:

at which point they bail, or until flamered/MG'd off by a friendly.

Problem: HOW do they bail out?
Do they stop swarming and die off?
Do they stop swarming the enemy-Mech and attack another next-best opponent?

My suggestion:
1. If the Elementals kill the Mech, they start jumping in circles and fire at next-best opponent.
2. If the "owner" of the Elementals comes <100m of them, they skip WHATEVER they are doing (attacking or waiting) and return to riding on him, ready to pounce anew.

[Mayhem McCrea]

I admit that's sortof the weak point in my idea, I'm not sure how they should leave the battlefield again. Having them be reusable seems OP to me, I'd rather they just jump jetted straight up into oblivion after they'd attacked. (Or onto a aero-dropship that swoops in to grab em')

[Grey Black]

No. Too difficult to implement correctly, and at this point, I'm barely beginning to trust PGI to tie its own shoelaces without breaking hit reg.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

The Clans extensively used 'Elementals' within there battle groups.
The organization was called a Nova.
-Consisting of a star of Mechs (5) and a star of Elementals (5)

The IS did not field these types of 'powered suits' for a few years, some prototypes of specialized units but nothing on the scale the Clans had.

So in this timeline, only the Clans would be able to have these elements 'on call'.
- But I would like to see some form of ground elements for the IS, either tracked or wheeled support units.
~ mounting an AC or Missiles as there primary weapon. (many choices available in this timeline.)

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 28 June 2014 - 01:08 PM.

[DI3T3R]

9erRed, on 28 June 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

So in this timeline, only the Clans would be able to have these elements 'on call'.
- But I would like to see some form of ground elements for the IS, either tracked or wheeled support units.
~ mounting an AC or Missiles as there primary weapon. (many choices available in this timeline.)

I made a poll about a year ago, whether people would like more unit-types available (for players, not AI).
Tanks, Infantry-squads, helicopters: 2/3 Yes, 1/3 No
Dropships: overwhelming No

[xeromynd]

I'd prefer them as consumables, but I think getting our hopes up for any sort of AI to be coded into the game within the next two years is unrealistic.

[MrBlonde42]

If I HAD to vote I'd say no at this time. I think IF it's added to the game it should be a consumable, and I'm not in favor of adding more consumables.

[ManDaisy]

No to anything playable.. Mechwarrior 3 elementals were so broken... the size of a pea and zipping around at over 200 kph. Yeah I don't see any hit reg abuse in those things at all...

[Grendel408]

I said yes... but I think if they were to add Clan Elemental BattleArmor, they would need to add Inner Sphere BattleArmor as well for balance. But it would have to wait until 3052 timeline... but I'd be all for that.

[Tim East]

DI3T3R, on 27 June 2014 - 03:07 AM, said:

Light Mech defeats Assault, Assault defeats Heavy, Heavy defeats Medium, Medium defeats Light.

I'm pretty sure assault beats medium too, usually. Something like this?
Light>Assault
Medium>Light
Heavy>Medium, Light
Assault>Heavy, Medium

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is why the % of mechs in play always slants so far toward the heavy end of the spectrum. Heavier mechs are valuable against more types of threats. Frankly, I'm amazed people play Mediums at all, excepting the Cicada which seems like a Light with a better armament and armor cap.

[DI3T3R]

Lobotomite, on 11 July 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

Elementals move with a speed of 10.8 km/h, there should be an extra game mode for them if they are implemented. Everything else isn't worth the bother I think. Even legged Mechs do outrun them. And Elemental weapons have extremely low firepower. And their armor... . Imagine that in an heavy/assault dominated game where a Mech just has to step on one to kill it.

- Give them the ability to ride along.
- Give them jumpjets with a LOT of thrust.
- Try hitting a jumping target that's a third the size of a Spider and that doesn't show up on your radar. (And MWO-armor is higher than canon-armor.)

[Túatha Dé Danann]

I want to pilot tanks like a Demolisher II, or a Heimdall, or a fighter. I also want dropships, elementals, real artillery, mines, infantry, etc

But I know that none of that will be available within the next 15 years. Why? Because the server would need about 100 player slots per match of such a scale, which:
1) Is not possible to handle for a server
2) will never be live, because you will never find 100 vs. 100 in the fitting elements
3) Would take another 15 years for PGI in order to be properly balanced after they would have released it

You can be lucky that we even have turrets. And I guess this will be the only thing we will see for quite a while beside battlemechs. Maybe, maybe we might see tanks in 5 years.

Fighters are useless, because the maps are too small and if they would be larger, you would have to play them on maps like Alpine or probably even larger and they would look pretty awkward, as a 100 ton fighter would fly with 54 kp/h through the air. (or similar views)

Elementals would never be effective if they are handled by the AI and if they are used by the player, you would have to open up a "elemental" group and this group would count as a single mech. As we already have spiders that take more incoming fire as some Atlas assaults out there, what do your think would such tiny "not more that a pixel per hitbox" elementals cause?

So, before we talk about elementals, PGI must address broken design elements like Spiders taking 500 dmg from Lasers and SRMs while still having armor on their mech. After that, we can talk about introducing smaller units.

Edited by Shevchen, 14 July 2014 - 01:08 PM.

[DI3T3R]

Lobotomite, on 15 July 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

9 points of armor and your weapons ability to do awesome amounts of damage.

Double the armor in MWO. And the Elemental's main attacks are Leg-Attack (how about a short-ranged attack with 15-20 damage to legs?) and Swarm, not firing his weapons.

Quote

Perhaps I would simply go away?

Excellent point. Without being slowed down by terrain (slippery concrete, swamp, rocks, trees...), Mechs are virtually undefeatable for Elementals, because they are too fast. Personally I'm hoping PGI will introduce terrain that slows down in its Swamp/Jungle-map.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

The coding required to build a functional and seeming 'real' Ai group of 5 Elementals is difficult code to start. Having this type of object and group now 'read the terrain' and path's, follow group tactics and target enemy Mech's. Adding in there ability to use jump jets and a claw device that can destroy armour, plus physically attach to the Players Mech during an attack. All much more difficult and as stated, hit detection now becomes a very complicated issue.

- If an Elemental is attacking and attached to any Players Mech, it would normally be well out of any weapons arc for that Mech Pilot.
- Probably necessitating that Mech to get assistance from another close Pilot (intended friendly fire here) or attempt to knock off the Elemental with a deliberate collision into near objects or terrain. (we see no effects from collision at this time so that would need to be 'enabled' again.)

- The Elementals would be very difficult to dislodge once in attack mode and attached to there target, I am now assuming the Mech models would need to have additional or fine tuned hit box's for such a small attacker and it's ability to destroy or remove Mech parts. (necessitating a 'rebuild'/'addition' of every Mech's coding.)
~ Lore instances of Elemental Pilots having uncanny movement abilities, being breed specifically to operate these massive armoured power suits, surviving countless battles against Mech's, and having head counts for Mech's defeated. All lead us to believe these are not Piloted weapons to be trifled with and very serious threats to any Mech's.

For any Ai element to be seen as believable is a difficult task for the game designers and programmers to accomplish. Many games fail at this with predictable movement and reactions that can be used against them. It takes quite a bit of talent, knowledge, tactics, and gameplay skills to even come close to designing something that resembles true ground element movement. (Elementals are another level higher for this task.)
- Before any thought of this type of object is created we need physical collision and knockdown brought back into the game.
- Tested and brought to a level where it functions as intended.
- If Elementals are fully capable of 'legging' a Mech, that Mech need's to be able to be knocked down.
(and all the associated effects due with that type of feature, much more coding for every aspect of the game.)

Simple Ai Infantry can be produced (again much coding) to 'avoid' locations where Mech's are moving through, as they normally don't carry the weapons designed to assault or pose much threat(normally). Built to react to opposing Enemy ground Infantry only.
(but this would only be additional eye candy for the Mech Pilots, but seriously task the engine with all the additional weapons fire and hit traces from many more elements. Russ stated we are nearly at the limit of the CryEngine with 24 Mech's and all the weapons fire calculations required now. Adding 20 to 50 more objects that can require LOS and trace calls may be too much.)

Personally, I would like to see combined arms engaged in epic battles for locations, perhaps not against the Mech's but each other. And I haven't even mentioned that each Faction fielded different types of Infantry and support elements, all needing different designs and weapon choices.

Reminded of great art work by Spooky777 of combined arms battles,sample:



This would be epic for MWO.
Aim True and Run Cool,
9erRed

[xxactfire]

Túatha Dé Danann, on 14 July 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

I want to pilot tanks like a Demolisher II, or a Heimdall, or a fighter. I also want dropships, elementals, real artillery, mines, infantry, etc

But I know that none of that will be available within the next 15 years. Why? Because the server would need about 100 player slots per match of such a scale, which:
1) Is not possible to handle for a server
2) will never be live, because you will never find 100 vs. 100 in the fitting elements
3) Would take another 15 years for PGI in order to be properly balanced after they would have released it

You can be lucky that we even have turrets. And I guess this will be the only thing we will see for quite a while beside battlemechs. Maybe, maybe we might see tanks in 5 years.

Fighters are useless, because the maps are too small and if they would be larger, you would have to play them on maps like Alpine or probably even larger and they would look pretty awkward, as a 100 ton fighter would fly with 54 kp/h through the air. (or similar views)

Elementals would never be effective if they are handled by the AI and if they are used by the player, you would have to open up a "elemental" group and this group would count as a single mech. As we already have spiders that take more incoming fire as some Atlas assaults out there, what do your think would such tiny "not more that a pixel per hitbox" elementals cause?

So, before we talk about elementals, PGI must address broken design elements like Spiders taking 500 dmg from Lasers and SRMs while still having armor on their mech. After that, we can talk about introducing smaller units.

IMO PGI intentinally made the lights as powerfull as they are. Why? So they could actually brawl and people would want to play and BUY them.This is obvious, at lease to me.

[Noesis]

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd be crazy enough to take an Elemental into an MWO match!

[Bhodi Li773]

I think an elemental consumable would be great but would need to be limited to time (30seconds of operational time)or damage( 5 elementals with SRM2and Slaser so 30+ damage) done before being used up. Otherwise 12 clan mech could ride in and use elementals to op a game in or out of CW .If this is done IS would need a similar consumable for balance though.IS did develop Battle Armor from Elemental armor even though they r in less use.

[Zephonarch II]

In the game's current format, no. It's a bad idea.

If the game had a single player mode, I'd like it. If it were like MWLL, then maybe.

Problems I see are how will Mechs be able to aim properly at them? how will it affect the matchmaker? we need new player-assortments(8v8), new game modes(8v8v8) or (9v9v9) where there'd be maybe 2 smaller mech mini-lances, and maybe an infantry mini-lance. The game isn't ready for power armour.

We still need more focus on other areas of the game like old map designs, before we put patches in that can drastically change the game like CW.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I think with elementals, this game could easily turn into titan fall..
I mean, we already have mechs that drop down in CW, all we need is elementals and the ability to open the hatch and kill the person inside the mech lol

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 03 January 2015 - 01:56 PM.