178 replies to this topic

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Reference 'Titan Fall'
- It was never about the Mech's, they were only a tool for the ground based Pilot.
- Yes the Pilot could use multi-tiered routes of movement, parkour and free-running style, even have the Mech 'follow'.
- But it was all about the Pilot.

With MWO it's about the Mech and how the Pilot uses it.

Introducing 'other' assists for the Mech Pilot to have available, be it ground based Infantry, tracked or wheeled vehicles, or Clan Elementals would be classed as tools for use.
- Not an object to be piloted but an element to use with your Mech.

These should be restricted to having some form of add-on or command element required within the Mech, allowing some form of ability to call for these types of resources. (so there are not 12 Mech's all with this ability)
- There should also be some restrictions on if the elements are even able to be used at certain locations or maps.
- Some of the maps would not work efficiently for there use due to restrictions of space or type of terrain.
- Other maps could be restricted to only some types of elements being available.

Perhaps as we advance deeper into the MWO gameplay and Pilots ranks and positions increase, (Loyalty Points having a use and function) these elements could be a product of the Pilots gained 'Command Rank'.

- For the Clans, it would require the minimum rank of 'Star Commander' to be able to have these units available.
(that's the 3rd rank progression for the Clans, basically a Company commander.)
see here: http://www.sarna.net...itary_Structure
- For the IS, a 'Captain' or 'Commander' rank for the ability to command those additional units.
(that's about the 8th rank progression and equivalent to a Star Commander.)
~ and a position within every House Faction, though may be called something different.
See here: (bottom of page) http://www.sarna.net.../Military_Ranks

Both Faction types, Clans as well as the IS used ground based elements to supplement there 'Sabre Troops' or front line elements. Sometimes as part of the Assault, more often the reason why the BattleMechs themselves were required to overwhelm the position or location.
- For PGI, it would be much easer to initially build tracked or wheeled support vehicles as they are larger and similar to Mech's in there structure type and hit box's. And with similar weapons types and effects. (already in the game)
- Building on the gained telemetry and gameplay of these first elements would only benefit further development of additional new items. (smaller grouped or linked units, Battle Armour and Infantry)

Just some thoughts,
Air True and Run Cool,
9erRed

[Repasy Cooper]

Yes, yes, YES!! Great idea!

Eventually IS could get their Standard Battlesuits as well...

[ApolloKaras]

Great idea, until someone pops a uav, and every noob this side of Terra locks on and starts going. Realizing you are only 40 some odd kph, and you cant go anywhere...

No thanks lol. There isn't a place on the battlefield for the Elemental

[Spare Parts Bin]

I would like to carry 5 Elementals on my Omnis.

[Will9761]

The Sloth, Elemental, and Infiltraitor would be perfect for Consumbles since we are in 3050 now. The Sloth and Infiltraitor for the Inner Sphere and Elementals for the Clans. Although I would bump up the Infiltraitor's Grenade Launcher to 5 damage. With the battle armor wearing thr colors of your mech as a cometic, like a chameleon (but that's just me ).

Edited by Will9761, 04 January 2015 - 08:49 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Other = part of the ai's on the mission that spawn from barrecks to defend the anti orbital gun.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Reference detecting these small elements, Battle Armour and Infantry specifically.

- They are very difficult for a Mech to initially detect, only about 150mtrs or less, if seen.
- This puts them initially out of a UAV's sensors range unless directly on top of one, and that's dependent on the UAV's elevation. (So no detection normally from any UAV for these units.)

Ground vehicles, although slower than some Mech's can use ground cover and terrain better to present a much more difficult target.
- most have at least one or more AMS system, armoured similar to a BattleMech and just as tough to take out.
- Mobility kills will not destroy this type of unit, take out a track or wheel set and it's now a very difficult bunker to destroy. (non turreted elements may suffer here, but most do have 360 deg. arc's)
- Terrain greatly effects just were these unit types can be deployed or move.
( But massed they are a force to be reckoned with.)
- Some operate with ICE power plants (Internal Combustion Engine) and can exceed 50-60kph.

As an example, for a quite common tank used in locations where Factions did not have quick or any access to BattleMechs.
The Demolisher Tank:
Here's just a few examples of an 80 ton Demolishers load-outs:
1. 2 x AC20's
2. 2 x Gauss, 2 x MLas
3. Clans; 2 x LB 20X AC, 2 x MPLas, 6 x Mg's, CASE. (yes, the Clans fielded this unit.)

Picture two or three of these in combo with the turrets on CW maps where there is no Enemy BattleMech Company present.
- Change up the unit type for different Factions, and that 'Free win' is not so easy anymore.

Just some idea's,
Aim True and Run Cool,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 05 January 2015 - 01:17 AM.

[Repasy Cooper]

I think best implementation of Battle Armor would be as an AI-controlled consumable module. There are many possibilities:

- Only useable by omnimechs. Eventually when IS omnis come into play the Inner Sphere would get their standard battle armor, and when IIC Clan mechs come into play there will be Clan battlemechs that likewise do not have access to this module. If non-omni mechs wanted to use this module, perhaps they would have to buy a "Battle Armor Clamp" item (0.5 tons) to allow battle armor to be used.

- The battle armor could be commanded using the same button that the module is mapped to. For example, the first use of the button would deploy the battle armor. Clicking the same button again would tell the battle armor to move to where the target reticule is pointing, or to attack a targeted mech. Double tapping the button would tell the battle armor to move back to your mech, possibly even remounting your mech for ease of movement around the battlefield.

- When attacking the mech, there's the possibility of allowing battle armor to latch onto the mech and start cutting it down with battle claws, torches, etc. The mech would then have to perform some sort of erratic movement (torso twerk, jump jet, arm jerk, etc.) that would dislodge and even kill some of the battle armor. Some people may not be fans of this idea but I think it deserves consideration.

- There are many different kinds of battle armor in Battletech, but I think for simplicity's sake the armament/capabilities of battle armor would have to be streamlined to prevent an outbreak of whining over some types being OP over others. Sticking with the most standard armament for both Elementals and Standard Battle Armor is probably advisable.

[WintermuteOmega]

I think it's a good idea, and i also have Russ's words from the townhall ringing in my ears, that they are thinking about it.

As for implementation:
The hit/collision-detection would be very painful to do for these buggers, but i would prefer following system:
Make it a at lead 1 ton-heavy, 500.000 C-Bill consumable (should be possible to do), so that it is painful to use, and make it pilotable. Meaning either you deploy it while being alive to let a "dead" player pilot it, or you may pilot it after your mech gets destroyed (asking if you want to join in a Battlearmor or Elemental). Then Anti-Personnel Pods could be also be implemented to get aorund that "shooting tiny targets" restriction. Dead players would not need to sit and watch but could have something to do.

[Colonel Fubar]

Elemental's would add a touch more realism to our Battlefield, which has 20 years to play catch up on. While your at it, add a rear view Mech camera, and destructible terrain features such as bridges and buildings. Hell, lets add some mobile map defenses and choppers.

[JadeTimberwolf]

I would love to see Elementals introduced either as a NPC drop alongside the mechs or as a playable unit where the player controls a single elemental of a point with the other 4 forming up around the player and staying in formation shooting where the player shoots.

[Silversynch]

Repasy, on 05 January 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

I think best implementation of Battle Armor would be as an AI-controlled consumable module. There are many possibilities:

- Only useable by omnimechs. Eventually when IS omnis come into play the Inner Sphere would get their standard battle armor, and when IIC Clan mechs come into play there will be Clan battlemechs that likewise do not have access to this module. If non-omni mechs wanted to use this module, perhaps they would have to buy a "Battle Armor Clamp" item (0.5 tons) to allow battle armor to be used.

- The battle armor could be commanded using the same button that the module is mapped to. For example, the first use of the button would deploy the battle armor. Clicking the same button again would tell the battle armor to move to where the target reticule is pointing, or to attack a targeted mech. Double tapping the button would tell the battle armor to move back to your mech, possibly even remounting your mech for ease of movement around the battlefield.

- When attacking the mech, there's the possibility of allowing battle armor to latch onto the mech and start cutting it down with battle claws, torches, etc. The mech would then have to perform some sort of erratic movement (torso twerk, jump jet, arm jerk, etc.) that would dislodge and even kill some of the battle armor. Some people may not be fans of this idea but I think it deserves consideration.

- There are many different kinds of battle armor in Battletech, but I think for simplicity's sake the armament/capabilities of battle armor would have to be streamlined to prevent an outbreak of whining over some types being OP over others. Sticking with the most standard armament for both Elementals and Standard Battle Armor is probably advisable.

This guy has the right ideas. I also suggest that, when you have a BA module equipped, they are visibly hanging off your mech. Better than sudden pop-in from nowhere.
EDIT: Wait you already mentioned that. [Bangs head on radar screen]

Edited by Silversynch, 07 January 2015 - 05:04 PM.

[DI3T3R]

It's weird.

Let's do it this way, let's do it that way, this is how to bring them into the game, this is what they should look like...



What goes unmentioned is that they still need a F**KING AI to work.
- You have to give this AI the ability to detect its surroundings, but only within LOS, please.
- You have to give this AI a hierarchic command-structure, what it should do next in what situation.
- You have to give this AI a wayfinding algorithm that, among other things, lets them approach the enemy in a tactically appropriate way while the human team-mates are stomping around them and constantly getting in their way.

How far is PGI in terms of AI? We have static things that can fire. We have things that fly along the same path, always along the same path. And they can fire too.
But I dare to say that it will be a bit trickier to program a running and gunning NPC who makes good tactical decisions.

This won't work in the first versions, of course.

And then there will be whining, WHINING, WHINING on the forum about this or that. How dare PGI do this or that? They promised Elementals but they are not exactly how you figured them! They are too weak or too strong or too smart or too stupid or have the wrong look or whatever mechanism is not to your liking! They ruined the game!
Gimme.
Gimme.
Gimme.
Whine.
Whine.
Whine.

[Jeon Ji Yoon]

Sky Hawk, on 24 June 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Elementals would be sure fun.. but just, when we become some weapons agains them too.. With my ERLL's, I can't hit even a moving light Mechs, how big would be my chance, to hit an moving Elementals?

I don't know, exists an "fly-flap" in BT? (I would use it of course against those bugs/birds/pyromans too...)

Elementals don't go very fast (like 30 kph) so it wouldn't be as hard as you're thinking

[SICk Nick]

I have posted before that I think conventional forces would be a great addition.

A consumable slot for the IS would be a deployable unit that comes from a nearby building, or off map or some such thing, is AI controlled and includes things like a pair of 5 ton helicopters, A med tank, a squad of infantry, or some other combination.

The clans could be elementals ect...

It would add a good dynamic I think.

[Quaamik]

I'd think they would be best (and easiest) added as a consumable that was AI driven. Maybe restricted to carrying either ART, Airstrike or Elementals / Infantry. Elementals should be available to Clans, Infantry to IS and both should be functionally equal (only differ on the Mechlab Screen)

-Elementals should deploy to a the targeted location, then attack the nearest enemy mech.
-They should have a "time of flight" and a maximum range they can be sent to.
-Once deployed, they should occupy a small area around the target location, attacking any enemy mech that enters it. Maybe a 150 meter circle.
-They should be able to be individually destroyed, and individually they should b very weak (say 1/2 point or less to destroy).
-Their weapons should be very short ranged and weak. Options (each elemental / Infantry has only ONE of the list below:
---- 1 MG with 500 rnds ammo, when each runs out its useless
---- 1 micro laser (maybe 1 point damage, same duration and recharge time as a small laser, same max range as an MG)
---- 1 SRM(1) with 6 to 10 rounds of ammo
-Balance the three weapons options between damage, longativity and range, and let the person choose when they buy the module which weapons type the have (three different modules)
-The elementals, once deployed, last till they run out of ammo or until the die.
- The elementals are NOT considered units as far as winning goes.
- They do NOT move or engage outside their area.

The would probably need coding for a dual hit zone. A small one for energy weapons and probably small ballistics (MGs and AC2s) and a larger one representin that they can be killed by splash damage that would be in effect for missiles, arty strikes and large ballistics such as AC/ LBX 10s and 20s. PPCs could fall in either hit zone, depending on how best to balance it.

Edited by Quaamik, 11 January 2015 - 08:30 AM.

[Quaamik]

The idea of them coming in from a remote location, such as by helicopter / air drop could be great both visually and functionally.

The air unit could be coded to come in low, considerably lower than a airstrike, ,maybe as low as a UAV. The air units speed and "time on drop zone" could be adjusted t make it possible to shoot it down, IF you were very accurate and fast on the trigger. Shooting it down after the "drop" of the elementals could gain some points. Each elemental could be worth some points (say 10, or 1/5th a turret). Shooting down the delivery craft before it can drop them gets you the points for both the craft and the elementals inside.

Edited by Quaamik, 11 January 2015 - 08:38 AM.

[Quaamik]

Elementals / Infantry (if added the way I listed) should be vulnerable to each other. If two opposing forced have an area of their "drop zone" that overlaps, they fight each other until one groups dies (ignoring mechs until that's done). I'm thinking along the line of 2 groups of 5 wipe each other out, if there 4 left f 1 group, and a group of five is dropped on tem, 1 of the group of five is left. If one group is smaller, it takes the size of the smaller group times 5 seconds where they are occupied fighting each other.

So a group of 5 is dropped.
1 gets killed by a enemy mech.
a group of 5 enemy elementals / infantry is dropped within the zone they occupy.
20 seconds later (4 infantry x 5 seconds each) there is one enemy infantry / elemental) left in that zone that can attack mechs and its free to do so.

Edited by Quaamik, 11 January 2015 - 08:48 AM.

[Quaamik]

DI3T3R, on 09 January 2015 - 02:05 AM, said:

What goes unmentioned is that they still need a F**KING AI to work.
- You have to give this AI the ability to detect its surroundings, but only within LOS, please.
- You have to give this AI a hierarchic command-structure, what it should do next in what situation.
- You have to give this AI a wayfinding algorithm that, among other things, lets them approach the enemy in a tactically appropriate way while the human team-mates are stomping around them and constantly getting in their way.

They way I'm thinking uses the AI like a turret is.
- detection of and targeting of enemy mechs within a 100 meter (or 75, or 150 - that can be set during the testing phase) meter radius circle around the designated drop point.
- The individual elementals fan out on drop into a circle 1/4 th radius of their detection radius.
- They run around in circles within x meters of where they each initially landed at random for evasion. Nothing fancy, just a random pattern. But they can move AND shoot at the same time.
- They all ALWAYS fire on the same target. here is one AI for targeting / firing, not 5.

Basicly they act like a "dropped" short range turret for targeting and shooting.

If the code is too hard to compute 5 points of fire as to where on the target mech they can hit. they could easily make the spot they stay in a smaller radius circle (say 5 - 10 meters) and just use the center point to compute where they can aim at / hit.

Edited by Quaamik, 11 January 2015 - 09:00 AM.

[Spare Parts Bin]

It would be a hoot to see a point of Elementals blow up Omega.