178 replies to this topic

[50 50]

The question was more about how do you get 5 separate entities to function as one and one early suggestion was that if they were treated as a mech then essentially each Elemental is like a body part for the mech.
That could work with some adaptions as suggested above.
Is it the best way to handle things? Not sure.
It was for some of the difficulties in how the point of 5 would be viewed, controlled and managed that I leant towards the solo drop with the respawn as an easier way to implement it.

In addition to the weapon customisations, there are a few unique consumables that could go along with the Elemental.
Things like HarJel and the Detonation Packs.

If we want to see some more variety and unique content in the game, then a pilotable Elemental would shake up the system more than any new light mech that runs fast and carries lots of weapons. Need to stretch the scope of the game and the Elemental would be a great addition.
I would jump on that preorder as soon as I could calm myself down enough to type properly.
I'm sure many others feel the same and I am sure many others know that feeling.

Edited by 50 50, 28 December 2016 - 11:58 PM.

[50 50]

So we have an interesting year ahead for us.
The new skill tree being implemented.
A jump in the timeline which will allow new tech options and plenty of variety in what we can do with our mechs.
Inverse Kinetics being re-introduced.
The recent changes with Faction Play have been interesting and made for greater game play, more of that to come.

It's going to be an interesting year.

However, what we can take into battle hasn't changed dramatically. The Clans are still missing a 20 ton mech and while there is a lot of interest in the Firemoth and there was a big hope it might be the next light mech announced, it hasn't happened......... yet.

So what is actually stopping the introduction of an Elemental Point or even a single Elemental being introduced as an option for us to drop into battle with?
It's not going to be the issue with breaking the speed barrier as the Firemoth does. (Though I am not sure how relevant that is anymore with recent updates)
Is it because they are not strictly a mech?
I can understand a bit of reluctance to run around as infantry, or pilot a convential vehicle such as a plane or tank. I think these combined arms would make great AI to add into Faction Play, but an Elemental is a bit of a unique entity and an important part of the Clan arsenal.
The clans also had their own infantry so where does an Elemental fit in?
The 20 ton spot in the Clan line up is an ideal spot to introduce them.
Not only does it fit that gap, but they add an option that is completely unique and will shake up the game play more than another fast light mech will.
As it is, we are progressing along nicely but not breaking into new ground much. Let's start pushing the game into some new territory.

[Jep Jorgensson]

I really hope we can get these eventually.

[Nesutizale]

Clan Eleemntals as a consumable that you can place to hold a specific point until they are destroyed would be nice. On the other hand I would then add IS Infantrie with anti mech weapons or a tankdrop too to give the IS side something similar and fitting to their side.

[50 50]

The comment in the last townhall was that more mechs may not be the packs that get sold.
Personally I feel the trend can continue.
There are plenty more mechs to add and I know many people are still wanting to see various different mechs in the game, everyone has their favourite and one of the marks of achievement for MWO is the sheer number of mechs available.
Not only that, but the new designs are EPIC and it would be very nice to see many more.

But perhaps it's time for some challenges.
I know there are many who would like to see the quadrupeds.
I would too.
But the one thing I would like to pilot more than anything else and would happily fund the development of would be the Elemental.

I, and others, would be very excited to be able to drop as an elemental in battle armour into battle along side our fellow mechwarriors.
There are various features that could really change the dynamics and feeling in the battles.
Elementals as a pilotable option would fit that bill as we would have something to fight with and against that would be very different to anything else we have.

I challenge the team to make it happen.
Break away from the status quo and dive into some new features.
Plus... reeeeaaalllly want to see what the art team and modelers can do with them.

[RottenFoot]

Elementals will be cool!!!!, but please fix the current issues first before implementing new features. Taking damage before being dropped on the battlemap, or getting stuck on map positions, or sticky walls with 5% leg dmg with no enemy in sight are a big issue if you want to go ESPORTS.(and i say this not to take part in competitive but to get bigger player-base, as adding a single feature will not provide that) ...but Elementals will be cool!!!!

[Will9761]

If Clans get Elementals, then the IS should get their battle armor as well, like the IS Standard Armor.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Will9761, on 29 July 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

If Clans get Elementals, then the IS should get their battle armor as well, like the IS Standard Armor.

No problem here. We just want our elementals!

[Alreech]

Silverlance, on 23 June 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

What are your thoughts?

Please provide feedback and answer for your vote and any suggestions that PGI can make use of.

Let's add a unit what can be only killed with a Clan ER PPC, Gausrifle or AC 20 ?
Was in the Battletech tablepop wargame a stupid idea, why do the same in MWO ?

As AI unit, with other AI units (like Tanks, VTOL and unarmored Infantry) maybe, just to add flavor to the game and to make weapons like Flamers and Machine Guns more usefull without giving them damage buffs against Mechs.

[50 50]

Will9761, on 29 July 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

If Clans get Elementals, then the IS should get their battle armor as well, like the IS Standard Armor.

The only problem there is the IS Battle Armour operated completely differently and was little more than solo infantry in a mechanized suit.

The Clan Elementals had a very strict structure of 5 and worked very closely with the Omni Mechs.
They could fill that missing 20 ton spot for the Clan.

But, if getting one means getting the other. Sure.

Alreech, on 30 July 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

Let's add a unit what can be only killed with a Clan ER PPC, Gausrifle or AC 20 ?
Was in the Battletech tablepop wargame a stupid idea, why do the same in MWO ?

Not sure where you are getting that idea from.
The Elemental is just a mini mech.
In the TT it had 10 points of armour, a small laser, a two shot SRM2, could jump and had the claw.
It could be damaged by any weapon but was only immune to the Flamer.

In MWO it would need to be adapted a little.
The armour values are a bit different but all of the equipment sets them up to be around 4 tons each.
5 in a point means they get to around 20 tons.

So, to one shot them you need a larger caliber weapon, but like anything else you can hammer away with whatever you like until you breach the armour and destroy the internals just like any mech. Elementals are just a bit squishier and make a mess when you hit the internals.

Alreech, on 30 July 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

As AI unit, with other AI units (like Tanks, VTOL and unarmored Infantry) maybe, just to add flavor to the game and to make weapons like Flamers and Machine Guns more usefull without giving them damage buffs against Mechs.

Tanks, VTOLs and standard infantry platoons etc.
Sure.
Would much rather have a bunch of these to fight that a ghost drop in FP where you don't actually play the game.

But I'm going to argue against the Elemental being an AI or a Consumable on the grounds that I would personally have a lot more fun dropping into battle as an Elemental. It's about as mech like as a non-mech is going to get and has a very close synergy with the Clan mechs that is unique.

[Will9761]

50 50, on 31 July 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

The only problem there is the IS Battle Armour operated completely differently and was little more than solo infantry in a mechanized suit.

The Clan Elementals had a very strict structure of 5 and worked very closely with the Omni Mechs.
They could fill that missing 20 ton spot for the Clan.

But, if getting one means getting the other. Sure.

It should still happen regardless.

[50 50]

Was kind of hoping that if the Inverse Kinetics was brought back into the game that being able to control a point of 5 Elementals might be workable. (Same for those quad mechs)
But seeing as that looks like it won't happen, I'd like to go back to the suggestion of having the Elemental use a respawn option from the spectator view.

That is:

• If you select the Elemental as your Mech it counts as a 20 ton light.
  
• You drop into battle as a single Elemental.
  
• If you get squished, you can deploy again from a mech that is still functioning using a little button that can display while spectating.
  
• You get a total of 5 drops so it fits in with the lore concept of a point in the Clan star consisting of 5 Elementals.

I would suggest the Elemental fitting the 20 ton spot for the Clan for the following reasons:

• They were equipped with:
  - ER Small Laser (0.5 tons)
  - SRM 2 with a single reload (0.54 tons)
  - Had 10 points of armour. (0.625 tons)
  - Had jump jets. (unknown but lets say 0.5 tons)
  - Various other equipment such as life support, computers, myomer muscle bundling... basically mech stuff. (let's say another 0.5 tons)
  - The Battleclaw. (Also unknown so let's go with 0.5 tons)
  - The Elemental themselves, which as a 3 meter tall genetically altered human... (lets' say 0.5 tons)
  
  Given a few unknowns, it would be fairly easy to say that each individual Elemental could weigh in at 4 tons. 5 in a point makes 20 tons.

But it's not a mech and this is Mechwarrior:

That may be true, but the Elementals are about as close to a mech a non mech entity would get.
Plus, they were specifically there to act in tandem with the Omni mechs and fought along side them.

But they are weak compared to even a 20 ton mech, too slow, not enough fire power etc.

Individually yes.
That loadout is not not exactly fearsome, it was a combined point that it suddenly get's nasty.
5x ER Small Lasers?
5x SRM 2s?
That is a nasty little package, however if it is not going to be possible to use a point of 5 and we look as solo Elementals with a respawn option, they will function a little differently and we ultimately get a more personal experience using them as an individual.
So... some ideas to make them a bit more viable as a solo:

• The top speed is not listed as being great. Given that there is no engine to change and adjust to improve the speed, it may be reasonable to give them a speed similar to a Direwolf at 48kph. That is not going to bust the speed limit in the game but seems reasonable given the Elemental is a 3 meter tall genetically engineered super soldier wearing power armour.
  
• They are small. Not being seen is their best defense. They are roughly the size of the leg of a light mech. It's also debatable if they would show up on radar or could be locked onto with the various missile weapons. But, their size means they will be able to use more features in the terrain for cover.
  
• The armour conversion in MWO is different to table top and I think would work out at around 20 points of armour? That's not bad, however the squishiness is offset by the ability to respawn which not only will give opposing players a more visceral feeling of having to fight multiple enemies and getting those kills, but it means the player in control of the Elemental still gets some reasonable game time to enjoy the battle.
  
• Given the modular nature of equipment for mechs, Elementals also benefit from this. While initially they are listed as having either the ER Small Laser, the Flamer or the MG... with the new equipment from the Civil War update there are now a couple of extra options to enjoy.

Some other features that make them unique:

• The Claw. This is the obvious one.
  It would be great if the claw could be used to grab onto a surface, such as a mech, but also the terrain. This is just a click and hold to grab, release to riiiip/let go.
  However, if that is not possible, it can really just function as a very close range attack with a high critical chance or something.
  
• Hitching a ride.
  If MWO is a team game, then the Elemental is a team player. Being able to 'bind' to a friendly mech to get a lift around the map and therefore acting in close tandem with that mech is a big part of how the Elementals operated.
  Given it is also very difficult for a lone Elemental to take down an enemy, the work they would do in combination with an Ally would really emphasize the teamwork aspect on another level.
  
• No Heat.
  Given the Elemental has no Engine and therefore has no build in heatsinks or way to dissipate heat, they need to be heat neutral and generate no heat from their actions. The original description also had them as immune to the heat effect of the flamer.
  
• Unique consumables.
  Might be able to use the existing consumables but those UAVs seem pretty big.
  There are two unique consumables that the Elementals are listed as using, HarJel to seal the armour and keep the Elemental Alive and Detonation Packs to strap to the legs of enemy mechs. These two items would give them a bit more bang for their buck.

For added consideration, we do have a lot of mechs in the game.
I don't see yet another fast light mech loaded up with lasers as something that new that would make much of a difference.
So, I'd like to see PGI branch out a little and try something new, add in something a bit left of field that breaks into some new ground.
Maybe it's not for everyone to drop into battle with but the Clan sorely need something in the 20 ton spot and the Elemental is a unique option.
IS got their Urban mech, let the Clan have their Elementals.

[InvictusLee]

packs of battle armor roaming the battlefield in lances and trinaries would be flipping amazing xD

[Davegt27]

power suits would have to be a separate game mode

having them mix with regular Mechs would cause major balance problems

[50 50]

Davegt27, on 13 September 2017 - 05:44 AM, said:

power suits would have to be a separate game mode

having them mix with regular Mechs would cause major balance problems

How so?

[ice trey]

Something like these, especially in FP, would be a nice addition.

I also thought something like these would be nice. For the spheroid equivalent, I'd like to see tanks. Nothing too OP like Alacorns or Shrecks, but either glass cannons like the LRM/SRM carriers, or low cost workhorses like the Bulldog or vedette.

[Will9761]

I would definitely support seeing Elementals in the game, just so I can see Alex's interpretations of them.

[KursedVixen]

Repasy Cooper, on 04 January 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

Yes, yes, YES!! Great idea!

Eventually IS could get their Standard Battlesuits as well...

probably as bolt ons like we got with the warden pack.


These should be a consumable or replace the Clans artillery strikes and take up one slot cost the same as any consumable... and maybe do about the same damage as a strike or more depending on how it needs to be balanced.

Edited by KursedVixen, 25 January 2022 - 12:00 PM.

[Ghoja]

I vote yes, but...

If they were implemented as a consumable, given what they are capable of, they would have to be shown like the bolt-on and be able to be destroyed like the bolt-on as well. Unless they are made severely underpowered.

Being able to deploy them like a landmine (ambush site) as a consumable would probably be the best implementation. Might actually help anti-nascar people. If implemented this way, they shouldn't have a timer, or rather one that doesn't start until they are triggered. (Limited attack duration, unlimited time to activated/tripped)

Would almost want to have 2 versions, ones with tag and ones with combat ability. I add the tag option mostly because right now there are no consumables to spot stealth mechs. This could be a viable alternative.

Edited by Ghoja, 01 February 2022 - 08:44 PM.