312 replies to this topic

[Xarian]

Hmm. I think what you're seeing with regards to the higher numbers (in general) with Clan mechs goes along directly with the higher average tonnage. Probably because the most common IS mechs are 80s (Victor) and 65s (Shadowhack) whereas the most common Clan mechs are 100s (Direwolf) and 75s (Timberwolf).

[Tezcatli]

And now organize 100 IS versus Clan matches.

[Malorish]

Since most people are still skilling up clan mechs, it would be interesting to do this in 2 weeks and compare the data.

I know that's a pretty big task, so it's a wish list!!

Overall what we're seeing is that DPS went up a ton with the Clans, and only the most durable and/or PP FLD IS mechs are really able to compete. Where as before non-meta mechs were still viable, now they feel very obsolete.

[Kiiyor]

Damage and kill charts added. Holy cow, go team Stalker! I feel as though these figures would be different with a larger sample size.

[Kiiyor]

Tezcatli, on 24 June 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

And now organize 100 IS versus Clan matches.

I wish. I should call for volunteers

[Doctor Proctor]

Kiiyor, on 24 June 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

I wish. I should call for volunteers

I don't think I'd volunteer for 100, but I can tell you that my Hunchback and Blackjack numbers are very similar to yours. BJ seems to be doing better due to higher maneuverability (BJ-1's JJ) and better range (BJ-3 with PPC's and JJ) than my Hunchback 4G, who just gets torn apart. I used to consistently do 4-500 damage per match with 3-5 kills, but now I'm barely able to break 200 and my Hunch is getting torn off less than halfway through the match. I think the old girl is finally going to be put to bed now, as 540 max range just won't cut it.

[Clint Steel]

Nice, not sure what it tells us, but I liked seeing a number put to all those timberwolves i've been seeing

Also what is a Wyvern?

[Kiiyor]

Clint Steel, on 24 June 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

Nice, not sure what it tells us, but I liked seeing a number put to all those timberwolves i've been seeing

Also what is a Wyvern?

WHOOPS. That's what it is.

[kazlaton]

Great work, thank you.

I was surprised that the IS lights had a much higher death/class than the clans, given that the clan lights are so much slower. My hypothesis is that the clan light pilots know they are more vulnerable and are playing more defensive, not trying some of the crazy moves that IS pilots would.

[InKerenskyWeTrust]

Very interesting numbers, glad you did this.

[Lyoto Machida]

Whoa...only been running the Stormcrow for a couple days and my average damage is 402.33...right at the average damage listed in your 110 games.

17 kills/7 deaths in 12 games...2.43 KDR and 1.42 kills per game. Needless to say, I'm loving this thing (and the SRM fix) so far...

Interestingly enough, all four of my Clan chassis driven (Stormcrow, Timberwolf, Dire Wolf and Warhawk) are over 400+ damage per game, with the Stormcrow pulling up the rear...that part doesn't correlate with your findings but I'm just throwing it out there as a humble brag.

[John Archer]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 June 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Well except for the over abundance of Clanners the numbers look a bit off. Clanners should be out damaging us Spheroids by a greater margin.

From my observations, they can't get a greater margin.

Examples: The time on target a Clan 'mech with lasers has to achieve to get close to full damage for that weapon.

The Ultra AC's, from what I can tell are: (mind you, I am guessing here on the UAC 5) UAC 5 - 2 shots at 5 damage per shot.
UAC 10 - 4 shots at 5 damage per shot.

UAC 20 - 5 shots at 4 damage per shot.

The result is if the pilot does not land all of the above shots (at anything but close range it is difficult to do) they are not doing close to their damage potential.

IS - Shorter time on target - greater damage per shot with energy

AC's and Ultra AC's - one block of damage per shot. So an AC 20 is doing 20 damage to one location whereas a Clan UAC 20 is tossing out 10 rounds at 4 damage each.

Mind you, this is merely from my own observations when using above Clan weapons.

[Atheus]

Pretty nice summary, and thanks for sharing this, Kiiyor!

[Roland]

Props for compiling the data here.

[Gyrok]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 24 June 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

Caveat: I have no screenshots, everything I'm about to say is purely anecdotal and based solely on my flawed memory.

I play only IS. I have no plans to pick up any Clan mechs.

It's been my experience that IS mechs are easily able to match or exceed Clan performance. In all the games I've played since the Clan patch went live, I've only had a handful where I failed to get a kill, and nearly every match in which I did kill something at least one of the deceased was a Clan mech. Many of my matches I wound up at or near highest damage and kills, often beating out Clanners of all weights. I've done this in lights, mediums, heavies, and assaults.

Sure, maybe it's the fact that a lot of Clan mechs still aren't through Basic yet, let alone Mastered. Maybe it's that most Clan pilots are having a hard time adjusting to the burn times of their lasers, or to the burst-fire AC mechanics. Still, my overall impression so far has been that Clan mechs are very dangerous if you stand and take hits, but are far more vulnerable to damage-mitigating maneuvers than a comparable IS build. Many tend to be over-gunned, giving them great single-alpha potential but terrible combat durability (you're often better off dropping guns for more heat sinks or ammo, to maximize performance of a sustainable payload).

I would just like to point out, all my clan mechs were full basic'ed and most were entirely elited before they left the mech bay, now none were mastered yet...(I did not have THAT much GXP laying around...)...but fully elited is close enough...I know others who were in the same boat...

[Triskelion]

I like science.

[Jman5]

John Archer, on 25 June 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

From my observations, they can't get a greater margin.

Examples: The time on target a Clan 'mech with lasers has to achieve to get close to full damage for that weapon.

...

The result is if the pilot does not land all of the above shots (at anything but close range it is difficult to do) they are not doing close to their damage potential.

IS - Shorter time on target - greater damage per shot with energy

This is a misconception when it comes to ER Small and ER Medium Lasers. The higher base damage outstrips the added beam duration. So it doesn't matter whether they can get the full beam duration down or not because they will always do more damage than the IS version.

I did the math here if you're interested.

[Goose of Prey]

This is nice data and the OP did a great job presenting it. Much respect.

Op hit on a point about learning tactics. It cuts both ways. Clanners are learning how to build and beat IS mechs, and it looks to me a pretty easy thing to do.

The only thing keeping IS mechs alive today is the fact we have clan mechs on our teams. It allows us to use the FLD of our ballistics to full effect.

What is in store for us over the summer?

3/3/3/3...Even with the release valves a lighter IS force will be crushed by clan forces. Clans pack too much fire power to compete on equal footing. Math is against us.

IS ballistic nerf? It has been alluded to, will it happen? That might be a nail in the coffin for many IS builds.

Paul hinted in a recent post that CW will separate the IS from the clans. Will there be a death match Queue? Will we still earn C-bills in it? If we are forced into IS vs Clan warfare (please, oh please) then will there be enough IS pilots to make a game of it?

Clan engine buff. PGI left that door open, they might just use it. As nasty as the Direwolf is, it should be able to get a bigger engine. This mech should be fear incarnate at any range, PPC and gauss get boring after awhile.

So many things will have an affect the current metric that we can't call what we have balance. Just this months chaos. Well here is for an exciting summer.

Thanks again Kiiyor on a job well done.

Edited by Goose of Prey, 26 June 2014 - 12:52 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Lyoto Machida, on 25 June 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Whoa...only been running the Stormcrow for a couple days and my average damage is 402.33...right at the average damage listed in your 110 games.

17 kills/7 deaths in 12 games...2.43 KDR and 1.42 kills per game. Needless to say, I'm loving this thing (and the SRM fix) so far...

Interestingly enough, all four of my Clan chassis driven (Stormcrow, Timberwolf, Dire Wolf and Warhawk) are over 400+ damage per game, with the Stormcrow pulling up the rear...that part doesn't correlate with your findings but I'm just throwing it out there as a humble brag.

Yep, I noticed similar findings in the data. I actually had a stab at correlating names against kills and damage, if anything to give me a list I could write in lipstick on a mirror beside my PC of people to KILL KILL KILL or flat out avoid. I noticed that there were a few people I was consistently dropping against, who were more than adequately pushing up the average. DONTOR and Carrioncrows with his bloody headshots come to mind, NAME AND SHAME BE DAMNED.

The main issue was the text recognition software. I haven't gotten it right yet, and in the end I really couldn't be bothered correcting every name.

It would be interesting though, to try and plot the average disconnect in performance for players, because from what I observed, it was fairly large.... I had a brief thought about contacting some of the worst performers and giving them the names of some reputable newbie friendly clans in the merc/faction area of the forums, but realised i'd pretty much be saying, "HEY, **** PLAYER, YOU SUCK, MAYBE THESE PEOPLE COULD HELP YOU SUCK LESS".

[Kiiyor]

CHARTS!



OP updated.