312 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

These graphs are fantastic. Thanks for uploading them.

[Pariah Devalis]

Goose of Prey, on 26 June 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

3/3/3/3...Even with the release valves a lighter IS force will be crushed by clan forces. Clans pack too much fire power to compete on equal footing. Math is against us.

I would like to point out, just as a devil's advocate here, that with the 4x3 system, you will also have far fewer Clan heavy or assault mechs per match, too. Really, it is only the 2xGauss/2XERPPC Dire Wolves that implode light mechs like no tomorrow, unless you get too close to a Clan SSRM boat, anyways. Otherwise, nailing lights with Clan ERPPC is only marginally easier due to the splash than IS PPC and the lasers are a pain in the ass against a 150 KPH light taking evasive action. XD

I for one would be very curious to see how the average values pan out after 4x3, just because it will shake up the mech distribution so much. Especially if limited to a max of one pre-made per team per drop. Less organized pilots per game, less automatic teamwork.


Also, to the OP, thank you very much for this post. Interesting data!

[Kiiyor]

Pariah Devalis, on 26 June 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

I would like to point out, just as a devil's advocate here, that with the 4x3 system, you will also have far fewer Clan heavy or assault mechs per match, too. Really, it is only the 2xGauss/2XERPPC Dire Wolves that implode light mechs like no tomorrow, unless you get too close to a Clan SSRM boat, anyways. Otherwise, nailing lights with Clan ERPPC is only marginally easier due to the splash than IS PPC and the lasers are a pain in the ass against a 150 KPH light taking evasive action. XD

I for one would be very curious to see how the average values pan out after 4x3, just because it will shake up the mech distribution so much. Especially if limited to a max of one pre-made per team per drop. Less organized pilots per game, less automatic teamwork.


Also, to the OP, thank you very much for this post. Interesting data!

My plans are to run a similar experiment with 4x3, though alternating between Clan mechs and IS. I haven't remotely mastered the Nova yet, so it's close to a fresh start. The trouble is, there aren't many IS mechs I haven't mastered...

OOH! The Cataphract! When it first dropped, I couldn't gel with it at all, Maybe it would be a good base to experiment with.

[Pariah Devalis]

Kiiyor, on 26 June 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

My plans are to run a similar experiment with 4x3, though alternating between Clan mechs and IS. I haven't remotely mastered the Nova yet, so it's close to a fresh start. The trouble is, there aren't many IS mechs I haven't mastered...

OOH! The Cataphract! When it first dropped, I couldn't gel with it at all, Maybe it would be a good base to experiment with.

Indeed. Go full tilt, make it a 3D, and slap on the default meta on it for authenticity sake?

[Belorion]

You should have removed your mech from the statistics...

Just saying.

[Karmen Baric]

So seems like those charts, graphs prove the point most people have been saying that Clan mechs are more powerfull than IS mechs (more damage,more kills), what suprised me is that all Clan mechs are more powerfull than IS mechs, even their light mechs. And these are mostly Basic Clan mechs versus most likely Elited IS mechs. Clan heavy and mediums are getting vastly more kills than their IS counterparts & will be even more OP when they are Elited. IS assualts are only mechs that seem to come close to Clan mechs in same category. Really needs to be fixed soon.

Edited by Karmen Baric, 26 June 2014 - 08:47 PM.

[Bobby Blast]

So the numbers support my observation that the Direwolf sucks and is pretty much a free kill.

[Kiiyor]

Belorion, on 26 June 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

You should have removed your mech from the statistics...

Just saying.

I thought the same thing, but then it would have unbalanced the results even further - in reality, the MM should have been countering my Clan mech with an IS mech, but well, it didn't really work out that way.

I thought of doing something along the same lines as competition scoring, where the highest and lowest values are removed (or the closest IS score to mine) but figured that would just skew the results even further.

Best way would have been to run an IS mech for the same number of matches. I've made inroads into that, but it will take a while.

[XX Sulla XX]

Thing is for this time period since the Clans you really cant take much from it.

1. Probably a majority of the best players in the game are using clan mechs because they are new.

2. At first every one was just running in and shooting because hey its new lets shoot something. This play is better for Clans.

3. Every one is still figuring out the strength and weekness of clans.

4. We are going to have an entire new match making system in the next patch.

5. Going to get fall damage next patch.

I think it would be great to do this again a couple of weeks after the next patch. And compare it with this data.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 26 June 2014 - 08:54 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Karmen Baric, on 26 June 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

So seems like those charts, graphs prove the point most people have been saying that Clan mechs are more powerfull than IS mechs (more damage,more kills), what suprised me is that all Clan mechs are more powerfull than IS mechs, even their light mechs. And these are mostly Basic Clan mechs versus most likely Elited IS mechs. Clan heavy and mediums are getting vastly more kills than their IS counterparts & will be even more OP when they are Elited. IS assualts are only mechs that seem to come close to Clan mechs in same category. Really needs to be fixed soon.

This is true, but bear in mind that my mech was a clan mech for all the drops, it's a small sample size, and my averages would definitely have had an impact on the overall figures.

If you look at the damage and damage/kill top 10 lists, the IS makes a surprisingly good showing.

I agree that overall the clans appear to be doing much better, but really, i'd like to balance it with more data before we draw any really significant conclusions. Also, the two sides both show remarkably different fighting techniques - the clans are high damage DOT's, but they can't touch the IS for pure frontloaded damage. Maybe we just need time for a new meta to emerge?

Also, anyone want to volunteer some recent IS end of match screenshots?

XX Sulla XX, on 26 June 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

Thing is for this time period since the Clans you really cant take much from it.

1. Probably a majority of the best players in the game are using clan mechs because they are new.

2. At first every one was just running in and shooting because hey its new lets shoot something. This play is better for Clans.

3. Every one is still figuring out the strength and weekness of clans.

4. We are going to have an entire new match making system in the next patch.

5. Going to get fall damage next patch.

I think it would be great to do this again a couple of weeks after the next patch. And compare it with this data.

My plan is to run the same sort of experiment, but alternating between Clan mechs and IS.

[XX Sulla XX]

Oh and it is interesting the TW is not the OP monster people make out on the forum.

[Davic Kerensky]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 June 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Actually my point was that Clan Mechs are not tough enough yet. I have said it many times I want the Boogieman, I want to sweat when I see a Timber Wolf and above... I don't have that yet.

Problem is when you get that .. there will be a legion of 'OMG Mad Cats are so OP!' ... or even worse, everyone will just turn up in them and rubbish off any other mech.

[Kiiyor]

XX Sulla XX, on 26 June 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

Oh and it is interesting the TW is not the OP monster people make out on the forum.

Yep - looking at the data though, the intrepid TWOLF has some of the largest swings in damage and kills, depending on who is piloting it (not as wild as the DWOLF though). I'd hazard a guess that many completely new players purchased it content in the knowledge they would stride the battlefields like a vengeful god... until reality came crashing down upon them like an IS Meta alpha strike.

EDIT: Actually, they also have by far the largest representation in the data. I'd say that more than any other mech listed there, theirs would be the most accurate mech to sample results from.

Edited by Kiiyor, 26 June 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[Atheus]

Kiiyor, on 26 June 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

Yep - looking at the data though, the intrepid TWOLF has some of the largest swings in damage and kills, depending on who is piloting it (not as wild as the DWOLF though). I'd hazard a guess that many completely new players purchased it content in the knowledge they would stride the battlefields like a vengeful god... until reality came crashing down upon them like an IS Meta alpha strike.

EDIT: Actually, they also have by far the largest representation in the data. I'd say that more than any other mech listed there, theirs would be the most accurate mech to sample results from.

Dire Wolf is as expected. A 100 ton mech with a 300 engine in it runs like you're under water until you fill out elite, and it takes a pretty long time to fill out elite when you can barely kill anything because your mech is running like it's under water! Once you have your basics doubled, it becomes plenty nimble to do its job.

[Lynx7725]

Kiiyor, on 24 June 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

Things I would like:
More data! Does anyone else collect EOM screenshots? Have any factions been using private matches to host their own IS vs CLAN grudge matches? DOES ANYONE CARE?

Anyone who wants to send me EOM screenshots (and if you do... please, please be objective - no selective collections of one sided stomps please, or no edits of the data to make all the scores spell 80085 (boobs - hilarious!) you can email them to:

sendmemwojunk@hotmail.com

You still want data? I got about 120 EOMs since Clan launch I think. But the size would be quite big, might sink your hotmail. Mostly in a Timber Wolf, but a handful in other Clan mechs and my Orion.

EDIT: Eh, turned out not that many. 92 EOMs. Still 44.5Mb uncompressed.

Edited by Lynx7725, 26 June 2014 - 10:57 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Lynx7725, on 26 June 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

[/size]
You still want data? I got about 120 EOMs since Clan launch I think. But the size would be quite big, might sink your hotmail. Mostly in a Timber Wolf, but a handful in other Clan mechs and my Orion.

EDIT: Eh, turned out not that many. 92 EOMs. Still 44.5Mb uncompressed.

Hit me!

[Pygar]

Very nice thread dude...many charts, wow.

[Lynx7725]

Kiiyor, on 26 June 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

Hit me!

You have mail.

[Aresye]

Karmen Baric, on 26 June 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

So seems like those charts, graphs prove the point most people have been saying that Clan mechs are more powerfull than IS mechs (more damage,more kills), what suprised me is that all Clan mechs are more powerfull than IS mechs, even their light mechs. And these are mostly Basic Clan mechs versus most likely Elited IS mechs. Clan heavy and mediums are getting vastly more kills than their IS counterparts & will be even more OP when they are Elited. IS assualts are only mechs that seem to come close to Clan mechs in same category. Really needs to be fixed soon.

You're failing to take into account that there were more Clan mechs fielded, so obviously the numbers are going to be higher for almost all the categories for the Clans. If the IS fielded more mechs to be even with the Clans, the resulting damage and kills observed would also increase for IS mechs and I'm pretty sure they would actually be very close to being even.

Imagine if there was 1 IS mech fielded per match in this test. The damage numbers and kills would be through the roof for the Clans, and the IS would look puny and pathetic.

If the IS fielded more mechs than Clans for this info, then the IS mechs would have slightly higher numbers in each category. It's just the way the test was conducted.

I'm also sick of seeing the, "But Clan mechs aren't elited or mastered yet," argument. I (and many others) took advantage of double XP conversion weekends to rack up 400,000-500,000 GXP for the sole purpose of mastering our Clan mechs on day 1. What makes you think those of us who spent hundreds of dollars on Clan mechs wouldn't spend a few measly extra dollars to convert XP in order to avoid the grind?

[Augustus Martelus II]

1453 R, on 24 June 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

Depending on how the TC works out, my best/favorite Timber Wolf's going to be the most evil Marauder analogue in the Inner Sphere. Two C-ERPPCs over two C-ERSLs in the arms, a C-UAC/5 in the RT, and a Mk. V TC in the LT. Maybe make space for an Active Probe and do ALL the heavy scouting.

No ears? Check. Horrifying murder machine? Also check

had made one with 4 C-er large lasers and 3 c er small lasers....added few extra double HS....its a true murderer