164 replies to this topic

[Sky Legacy]

Aresye, on 24 June 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

I am absolutely sick of the current meta.

I had an absolute blast the first week the clans rolled out because everybody was running various builds, and only a few were running meta versions of the clan mechs. Now, less than 2 weeks into the clan release, it's back to poptarting PPC/AC/Gauss builds in nearly every game in the mid-high Elo brackets.

The last faction challenge was just non-step meta with at least 5-6 Victors and Cataphracts all running 2PPC/2AC5 on each team EVERY FREAKING GAME, NONSTOP, THE ENTIRE WEEKEND.

I won't argue about skill vs lack of skill or the mindsets of the players (including myself) who ran the meta the entire weekend. It's just the most obnoxious and repetitive type of gameplay that more often than not is just a giant clusterf*** of mechs alternating up/down/up/down, where in nearly every second of the game there's at least 3 mechs in midair.

Flying around and being in midair is fun I love it and love when my opponents are doing it as it's fun to try to hit them. But I agree what's not fun is the same exact weapons systems. For instance I often pilot my jump jet shadowhawk but not with the boring meta build, I do a brawling SRM6 build where I jump brawl around, fly around and splat you in the face with SRM6's from above

[Vassago Rain]

Waelsleaht, on 24 June 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

Widely accepted definition is what then? Omg something costs money and others can't get it so it's pay to win? In that case my kit fox is pay to win as well as my slow **** of a dire wolf. Heck my mouse is pay to win in that case.

Paying for an advantage is P2W. I buy a special gun in battlefield heroes, you run the free guns. I'm paying to win, so I have the advantage against you.

[Sky Legacy]

Waelsleaht, on 24 June 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

Widely accepted definition is what then? Omg something costs money and others can't get it so it's pay to win? In that case my kit fox is pay to win as well as my slow **** of a dire wolf. Heck my mouse is pay to win in that case.

You clearly have never participated in debates of Pay to Win in other games. Just google the term please and then come back to the discussion because it's not possible to discuss a term with someone who doesn't know the definition of it

Vassago Rain, on 24 June 2014 - 09:28 PM, said:

Paying for an advantage is P2W. I buy a special gun in battlefield heroes, you run the free guns. I'm paying to win, so I have the advantage against you.

Exactly. This is pay to win. Who in their right mind thinks "Pay to win means I pay I win" that doesn't even make any sense. There is no game in existence that gives you an instant I-Win button 100% of the time. This guy simply has no clue what Pay to Win means

[Philldoe]

Adiuvo, on 24 June 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

I'll push for that to be done hopefully by tomorrow.

I'd like to get in on that Adi. I'd like to see how my PPC UAC 3D does compared to my PPC Gauss 3D Vs the Madcat.

Edited by Philldoe, 24 June 2014 - 09:31 PM.

[Waelsleaht]

Vassago Rain, on 24 June 2014 - 09:28 PM, said:

Paying for an advantage is P2W. I buy a special gun in battlefield heroes, you run the free guns. I'm paying to win, so I have the advantage against you.

so any game that is not truly free with everyone able to get everything for nothing is pay to win in the publics eyes. Meaning every game in existence is pay to win. So why ***** about it then If it's so dam common?

[Sky Legacy]

Adiuvo, on 24 June 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

I'll push for that to be done hopefully by tomorrow.

Yes I'd love to see all cataphracts vs. T'Wolves also. One of the matches had 4 DS + 1 3D versus 5 T'Wolves and the IS team won but still would love to see full match

Waelsleaht, on 24 June 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:

so any game that is not truly free with everyone able to get everything for nothing is pay to win in the publics eyes. Meaning every game in existence is pay to win. So why ***** about it then If it's so dam common?

What are you talking about? Not every game has items that are only PAID many games you can get more powerful paid items quicker by paying for them but you can still get those same items via grinding thus making it not pay to win (most would argue). Pay to Win is a situation like the Dragon Slayer where you CANNOT purchase it with cbills ONLY with cash.

[Roland]

meteorol, on 24 June 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

Those screenshots say that the best IS assault mech (when it comes to a specific style of playing) is better than a Clan heavy mech. It doesn't give much information about clan balance in general. Especially since the 3x4 MM will not match the TW against a DS, but against IS heavy mechs.

But anyway, thanks for the testing guys. If anyone from HoL reads this thread, could you maybe do a CTF-3D vs. TW test aswell? I'd really like to see how it performes against anything that is not the DS.

Seems like if you ran the same test and replaced the victors with Cataphracts it'd just be a bloodbath... but should be interesting to see anyway.

Edited by Roland, 24 June 2014 - 09:39 PM.

[Atheus]

Waelsleaht, on 24 June 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:

so any game that is not truly free with everyone able to get everything for nothing is pay to win in the publics eyes. Meaning every game in existence is pay to win. So why ***** about it then If it's so dam common?

Not even close to true. Pay to Win pretty much only exists in F2P games, and even in F2P games it's not pervasive. Certain games just can't get people to pay for inconsequential stuff, so they start selling the consequential stuff from some angle. MWO's angle pretty much just became perpendicular.

[Aresye]

Sky Legacy, on 24 June 2014 - 09:28 PM, said:

Flying around and being in midair is fun I love it and love when my opponents are doing it as it's fun to try to hit them. But I agree what's not fun is the same exact weapons systems. For instance I often pilot my jump jet shadowhawk but not with the boring meta build, I do a brawling SRM6 build where I jump brawl around, fly around and splat you in the face with SRM6's from above

Oh I completely agree there. Before the clans I would most often run a Catapult with 3 ER Large, fastest XL possible, and jump jets.

I still run jump jet laser builds, but it's obviously been a whole lot tougher with the clan lasers.

[Waelsleaht]

Sky Legacy, on 24 June 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

(most would argue)

All you needed to say to discredit everything ells you said. Most means majority. So most people believe spending money is pay to win. So mouse. Pay to win. Keyboard, pay to win. Mech that for the moment only a few have, pay to win. Something giving you a edge (slight at that) pay to win. Clearly it's more common than you think.

[Roland]

Waelsleaht, on 24 June 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

All you needed to say to discredit everything ells you said. Most means majority. So most people believe spending money is pay to win. So mouse. Pay to win. Keyboard, pay to win. Mech that for the moment only a few have, pay to win. Something giving you a edge (slight at that) pay to win. Clearly it's more common than you think.

Pay to win is a pretty well established term in the industry.

It means being able to exchange real world currency for an advantage in the game which cannot be earned through in-game means.

[Sky Legacy]

Waelsleaht, on 24 June 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

All you needed to say to discredit everything ells you said. Most means majority. So most people believe spending money is pay to win. So mouse. Pay to win. Keyboard, pay to win. Mech that for the moment only a few have, pay to win. Something giving you a edge (slight at that) pay to win. Clearly it's more common than you think.

well now you're just talking nonsense and no longer on topic. Point is you don't know what pay to win means, go look it up then come back and you'll be able to engage in conversation with people who do

[Vassago Rain]

Waelsleaht, on 24 June 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:

so any game that is not truly free with everyone able to get everything for nothing is pay to win in the publics eyes. Meaning every game in existence is pay to win. So why ***** about it then If it's so dam common?

Not really. It's extremely common in F2P games, for obvious reasons.

Starcraft? There's no way to even purchase in-game stuff. You buy the game, that's it. MWO? Micro-transactions and big preorder packages let you have the advantage over freeplayer scum.

[Sky Legacy]

Roland, on 24 June 2014 - 09:41 PM, said:

Pay to win is a pretty well established term in the industry.

It means being able to exchange real world currency for an advantage in the game which cannot be earned through in-game means.

He's just trolling at this point, he has no clue what P2W means and apparently doesn't care enough to educate himself

[Sephlock]

I.. I can't even do my future-seeing schtick.

EVERYONE saw this, right?

RIght?

I mean even the most hardcore whiners had to have seen this coming:

[Sky Legacy]

Keep in mind I'm not even whining about P2W. I personally don't think it's that bad in MWO. I simply take issue with someone who doesn't even know the most commonly and widely accepted definition of a term. I for one don't mind it too much. Yes a DS has an advantage over a 9S but not sucha terrible one that you can't succeed with a 9S. However is it still pay to win? Yes it is, 100%.

[Waelsleaht]

Atheus, on 24 June 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

Not even close to true. Pay to Win pretty much only exists in F2P games, and even in F2P games it's not pervasive. Certain games just can't get people to pay for inconsequential stuff, so they start selling the consequential stuff from some angle. MWO's angle pretty much just became perpendicular.

So it's only f2p genera and not all games in it are P2W is what your saying? So the definition is not absolute. It changes as one person or another says it should.

Paying for an advantage is just that. Paying for an advantage. Not paying to win.

"Paying for an advantage is P2W. I buy a special gun in battlefield heroes, you run the free guns. I'm paying to win, so I have the advantage against you."

The TTK is what 1/10th a second? What could the gun give you that a free gun can't? All the same. An advantage is an advantage. I'm not arguing that. Paying to "win" is something ells entirely.

But when have we ever used a word for its definition Webster gave it anyways. Just saying.

[Sky Legacy]

Waelsleaht, on 24 June 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

So it's only f2p genera and not all games in it are P2W is what your saying? So the definition is not absolute. It changes as one person or another says it should.

Paying for an advantage is just that. Paying for an advantage. Not paying to win.

"Paying for an advantage is P2W. I buy a special gun in battlefield heroes, you run the free guns. I'm paying to win, so I have the advantage against you."

The TTK is what 1/10th a second? What could the gun give you that a free gun can't? All the same. An advantage is an advantage. I'm not arguing that. Paying to "win" is something ells entirely.

But when have we ever used a word for its definition Webster gave it anyways. Just saying.

The definition of "Pay to Win" is paying for an advantage. You are wrong and your arguments are invalid. Please stop trolling

[Waelsleaht]

Sky Legacy, on 24 June 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

He's just trolling at this point, he has no clue what P2W means and apparently doesn't care enough to educate himself

I know exactly what the general pop says it means. And the context in witch it is used. My point is everyone has different definition. Even the 2 I quoted in previous posts explain it differently than the other.

But nice to see the first thing people do when faced with this is call him uneducated and scoff at his trolling like he is a lesser creature. Anonymity of the internet at its best.

[Vassago Rain]

Waelsleaht, on 24 June 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

So it's only f2p genera and not all games in it are P2W is what your saying? So the definition is not absolute. It changes as one person or another says it should.

Paying for an advantage is just that. Paying for an advantage. Not paying to win.

"Paying for an advantage is P2W. I buy a special gun in battlefield heroes, you run the free guns. I'm paying to win, so I have the advantage against you."

The TTK is what 1/10th a second? What could the gun give you that a free gun can't? All the same. An advantage is an advantage. I'm not arguing that. Paying to "win" is something ells entirely.

But when have we ever used a word for its definition Webster gave it anyways. Just saying.

BF Heroes has cash weapons with bigger magazines, faster fire rate, more mod slots, faster reloads, hugely increased crit chances, higher damage.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 24 June 2014 - 10:03 PM.