77 replies to this topic

[Varik Ronain]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 25 June 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Don't forget that if you have multiple people shoot the target you are going to do way more than 90 damage. I am just saying that unlimited damage is really punishing to anyone especially with the current maps we have and LRM trajectories.

This bugs the hell out of me... I mean if you get narced and do not have hard cover then you are going tobe punished... and you still have betty screaming at you the whole time. With gauss and ppc pinpoint damage I can lose half of my armament in one shot with no warning. So sorry I have no sympathy with the current FLD meta being able to remove one of my cat ears with zero warning from extreme range while under ecm so I didnt even notice them at range before the sound of the gauss/pcc ripping off a chunk of my mech. if I have to deal with that you can live with a narc.

[Sug]

Varik Ronain, on 25 June 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

This bugs the hell out of me... I mean if you get narced and do not have hard cover then you are going to be punished...

And what's the reason for not having some cover close by again?

[Varik Ronain]

Sug, on 25 June 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

And what's the reason for not having some cover close by again?

The point was with one you get a warning to GET into cover... the other gives no warning at all.

[Deathlike]

You either kill the NARCing mech or you die trying to find cover or AMS umbrellas.

Once upon a time, I had suggested an AMS bonus of some sort for protecting teammates (based on % destroyed that would've hit the target)... you know AMS isn't really equipped these days (PUGs will, but not so much with competitive groups).

Whatever I guess. You don't have to get sucked into the NARCing mechs way either...

[Sug]

Varik Ronain, on 25 June 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

The point was with one you get a warning to GET into cover... the other gives no warning at all.

So when you're narc'd missiles launched at you don't give a warning?

[Varik Ronain]

Sug, on 25 June 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

So when you're narc'd missiles launched at you don't give a warning?

I dont think you understand what I am saying. When narced and missiles starting being lobbed at you betty goes off.

The pinpoint FLD that completely destroys components gives no warning... there is no delay... you have no time to scurry into cover...

TLDR: Leave narc alone

[Sug]

Varik Ronain, on 25 June 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

I dont think you understand what I am saying. When narced and missiles starting being lobbed at you betty goes off.

The pinpoint FLD that completely destroys components gives no warning... there is no delay... you have no time to scurry into cover...

TLDR: Leave narc alone

I need coffee

[JohnnyWayne]

Hell no, we won't leave NARC alone. In its current form its buffing LRMs too much. It has to fall off after some damage again.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 25 June 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

You either kill the NARCing mech or you die trying to find cover or AMS umbrellas.

Once upon a time, I had suggested an AMS bonus of some sort for protecting teammates (based on % destroyed that would've hit the target)... you know AMS isn't really equipped these days (PUGs will, but not so much with competitive groups).

Whatever I guess. You don't have to get sucked into the NARCing mechs way either...

Yeah, a simple minor xp and cbill bonus per missile destroyed would go a long way to encouraging team play. Hard to consider if it would have hit an enemy or not, but I wouldn't expect the bonus to be so large as to be exploitable really.

It'd help build on the whole "role warfare" angle.

So, probably won't happen >.<

JohnnyWayne, on 25 June 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

Hell no, we won't leave NARC alone. In its current form its buffing LRMs too much. It has to fall off after some damage again.

Coming from a founder, this is very depressing. I assume you're not new to the game? You ought to be past thinking LRM's are in any way overpowered, even with NARC.

I just can't... NARC just isn't.. It's NARC.

Come on.

Edited by Wintersdark, 25 June 2014 - 02:04 PM.

[JohnnyWayne]

LRMs are actually fine atm. Only NARC boosts them over the edge, thats what I am thinking. There are maps with no cover at all. All you can do is shutdown and take it, when your realise you are narced. Mostly you don't even realise it until the first 10 seconds are over.

To the new thing... I have about 4k matches, I know how things work and I also got a good feeling for balance.

[Ted Wayz]

The other day my teammates told me I was Narc'd. We were on Caustic so I just got up and got another drink.

But hey, I use it too. Fair is fair.

[Lootee]

I'd rather run 12 flamers than the Narc + ammo if they gimp it back into the useless POS it used to be. You'd be far more effective with 12 flamers than the slow moving, non-damaging, short ranged, ECM negated pod of ineffectiveness that falls off 3 seconds after you hit anything with it.

Narc is in a good place right now and fun to use. Surely people should have learned how not to get hit with LRMs by now.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 25 June 2014 - 02:14 PM.

[Varik Ronain]

JohnnyWayne, on 25 June 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

LRMs are actually fine atm. Only NARC boosts them over the edge, thats what I am thinking. There are maps with no cover at all. All you can do is shutdown and take it, when your realise you are narced. Mostly you don't even realise it until the first 10 seconds are over.

To the new thing... I have about 4k matches, I know how things work and I also got a good feeling for balance.

Says the guy with piss poor sportsmanship. I just played you on caustic and your team had 3, count them 3 ECM mechs while ours had none. I was in a 4 man talking on TS and used *gasp* narc, tag and uav to remove the ECM.. we won 12-3 and did the normal gg everyone. Your highness Johnny would have none of it. Your attitude is piss poor and instead of raging perhaps your team could have played like a team and pushed or done anything other than cower in ECM bubbles and slowly wither under LRM rain.

[Pjwned]

I made a suggestion a little while ago on how to tone down NARC a little bit and make it more interesting to use. I also think that if your teammates can see that you are NARC'd, it doesn't make much sense that you can't ever see that for yourself so there should be a warning after several seconds or something, and I agree that re-instating a damage cap for missiles might be a good idea albeit at a much higher cap than it was before.

I also made another suggestion on how to make NARC a little more useful if some of those changes were made, although as far as NARC and ECM are concerned the ideal solution would be to just not make ECM be so ridiculous with how much it does for a tiny piece of equipment.

[LastPaladin]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 25 June 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

Making it so it doesn't fall off regardless of damage sustained was just a complete mistake. I could understand increasing it. I personally think it should fall off after 60-90 points of damage. As it stands now a Narc beacon on a lot of maps is quite simply a death sentence.

It's a tricky thing for them to balance, because you don't want the narc to be too powerful that it is a death sentence, but then again, if a narc can't help you get kills consistently, who will pay the weigh tax to carry it? Also, if the duration is shortened, whether due to changing the hard limit or letting the beacon fall off, narc users will have to carry more tonnage in ammo to last them through a match. So any reduction in that time is a multiplying nerf, as it increases the weigh tax to carry the weapon as well.

I think what is needed is not so much a change to the way narcs work, but a better counter to narcs. Right now, once you are narced, you don't have many options, and that is if you are lucky or smart enough to realize that you are narced in the first place. A lot of cover is useless when you are narced, as you either need a tall building to get behind, or something with a roof you can stand under or you will keep getting hit. Powering down doesn't even seem to work against them anymore. ECM can help you, but most narcers are going to hit the ECM mech first so good luck with that. I'm not sure what counter could be devised that would be helpful while not making narcs useless, but it feels like something is needed.

[CycKath]

I feel narc is in a good spot, the only thing is again the lack of knowing if you've been narced

[Wintersdark]

CycKath, on 25 June 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

I feel narc is in a good spot, the only thing is again the lack of knowing if you've been narced

Agreed. You should get a warning when you've got a narc beacon stuck to your ass.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I just tried NARC for teh first time today, in every respect it is inferior to TAG.
1. It doesn't work through ECM (someone suggested LOS, but I may as well have TAG at that point)
2. It takes a missile slot, I prefer to use my missile hardpoints for useful missiles
3. Hide My Ass Module, I thought it didn't work against this module, but there are so many ways to hide from narc, I can't be sure if this blocked it or ECM blocked it.

All in All a waste of a hardpoint, tonnage, and ammo.
If you are scout, and can maintain LOS to the target, maybe it will work for you allies (if you are lucky enough to have a LRMs on your team), but under any other circumstance nothing is 10x better, and TAG is 1000x better. Personally I am probably going to use those 4 tons to get myself halfway to an ERPPC, which does just as good of a job.

[wolf74]

Narc take a bit to get use too. But it can bet very powerful if used right.

ECM will Block a Narc Pod attach to a mech under it protection
NARC will Block a Mech ECM if the POD is attach to the Mech WITH the ECM in it.

I used the Narc PODs to Block 3 ECM Raven by Landing one NARC pod on each of the 3 Ravens. (I was in a Group with 2 Large LRM boat who went Shut them self down Trying to Kill all 3 Ravens before the 1st Pod gave out)

You don't have to LOS for the NARC pod to work once it is attach to a Target. And yes if you hit your team mate who has ECM you will Block his ecm dam that FF.

Edited by wolf74, 25 June 2014 - 10:02 PM.

[Spheroid]

@Agent O Fortune: You must be running heavier mechs. The Jenner-K is sublime.

Edited by Spheroid, 25 June 2014 - 10:07 PM.