72 replies to this topic

[Ebonkosh]

I was in a match today with a Direwolf that had three Gauss rifle and 6 C-ermed lasers. How is this pinpoint dam even remotely fair? thats 45 dam from the gauss and 42 from the med lasers. So he can do 87 dam with a alpha strike. What is the point of this?

Let me change that to 30Gauss and 42 from the lasers then .75 secs later add 15 more dam for the 3rd gauss. I know this build is not the best and there are some below that are better but my concern is that IS mechs value is there. The pros and Cons didn't seem to balance out during real combat in matches. Same goes for IS light mechs that may be way better than Clan light mechs.



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Edited by Ebonkosh, 27 June 2014 - 12:06 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Ebonkosh, on 26 June 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

I was in a match today with a Direwolf that had three Gauss rifle and 6 C-ermed lasers. How is this pinpoint dam even remotely fair? thats 45 dam from the gauss and 42 from the med lasers. So he can do 87 dam with a alpha strike. What is the point of this?
E

So what? Here's an Inner Sphere mech with an 87 dmg alpha strike, all lasers, gauss and PPC.

Neither of those builds are going to be very effective.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 26 June 2014 - 11:32 PM.

[Ebonkosh]

Alistair Winter, on 26 June 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

So what? Here's an Inner Sphere mech with an 87 dmg alpha strike, all lasers, gauss and PPC.

Neither of those builds are going to be very effective.

Please compare a build that doesnt have ghost heat penalties. I am pretty sure the Direwolf heat penalties is nothing like the IS build you linked.

[Stonefalcon]

For shits and giggles I'm using what I call the Glass Cannon Dire Wolf

13.5 tons Armour
3 ERPPCs
2 Gauss Rifles (8 Tons Ammo)
Additional Heat Sinks to taste.

[p8ragon]

Ebonkosh, on 26 June 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

Please compare a build that doesnt have ghost heat penalties. I am pretty sure the Direwolf heat penalties is nothing like the IS build you linked.

I think you forget how atrocious dire wolf hitboxes are. It's literally a massive CT.

Banshees can torso twist.

[Aresye]

The Ilya can do triple gauss, but it's so slow and vulnerable that all you had to do was avoid standing in front of it and take it out from the side or behind.

Same goes for any Dire Wolf, which is such a lumbering blimp that almost every player considers them an easy kill.

[Alistair Winter]

Ebonkosh, on 26 June 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

Please compare a build that doesnt have ghost heat penalties. I am pretty sure the Direwolf heat penalties is nothing like the IS build you linked.

So what? I can't show you an IS mech that has the same capabilities, but the point is moot as long as the Direwolf build isn't particularly effective.

If it's not effective, it's not OP. If it's not OP, it's not a problem. Move along.

Aresye, on 26 June 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

The Ilya can do triple gauss, but it's so slow and vulnerable that all you had to do was avoid standing in front of it and take it out from the side or behind.

Same goes for any Dire Wolf, which is such a lumbering blimp that almost every player considers them an easy kill.

Exactly. The Dire Wolf's CT is already very vulnerable. Add 3 components on the upper torso that will EXPLODE if they take a crit too many, potentially doing further damage to the CT, and... well.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 26 June 2014 - 11:41 PM.

[Martis Gradivus]

You can only fire 2 gauss rifles at a time, so it's just a 30 point alpha.

The Dire Wolf needs to keep his ER Medium Lasers on you the whole time for the max alpha, so he won't be hitting you for full damage very often, if ever. The only mechs that need fear that are those standing still.

I fear more the 2 gauss / 2 ERPPC Dire Wolves that can put 50 points in the same spot at much longer ranges than ER Medium Lasers.

[Haxburch]

I dont believe all this shortrange builds are good for the DWF he gets faster killd then a med in close range.
I play LRM20+LRM15, 4CLERL+CUAC20+TAG .
Works on all ranges. But i try to stay long/ mid ranges. I had some pug matches with 1000+ DMG  1-5 kills.

Edited by Haxburch, 26 June 2014 - 11:50 PM.

[YueFei]

Ebonkosh, on 26 June 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

I was in a match today with a Direwolf that had three Gauss rifle and 6 C-ermed lasers. How is this pinpoint dam even remotely fair? thats 45 dam from the gauss and 42 from the med lasers. So he can do 87 dam with a alpha strike. What is the point of this?



E

He can only fire 2 Gauss at a time, then there'll be at least a 0.75 second delay before he can fire his 3rd Gauss Rifle.

[Tahribator]

Alistair Winter, on 26 June 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

So what? I can't show you an IS mech that has the same capabilities, but the point is moot as long as the Direwolf build isn't particularly effective.

If it's not effective, it's not OP. If it's not OP, it's not a problem. Move along.

Exactly. The Dire Wolf's CT is already very vulnerable. Add 3 components on the upper torso that will EXPLODE if they take a crit too many, potentially doing further damage to the CT, and... well.

Unlike the garbage "counter-build" you posted, OP's build is kind of workable. 3xGauss is kind of pushing it though, a more realistic approach would be to bring 2xGauss and 6xC-ERML and 22DHS to cool them. 2xGauss barely produces any noticable heat and 22DHS is more than plenty to cool eight medium lasers, with ghost heat. It can even hold an extra C-LPL without affecting its heat efficiency much.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cce3ab9ef5e2fd6

Now, the Dire Wolf is held back by its vulnerable CT. If PGI gives into the whine and adjusts its hitboxes so it's more similar to Stalker and can face-tank, then builds like these are going to be an issue.

Edited by Tahribator, 26 June 2014 - 11:54 PM.

[Stonefalcon]

Tahribator, on 26 June 2014 - 11:49 PM, said:

Unlike the garbage "counter-build" you posted, OP's build is kind of workable. 3xGauss is kind of pushing it though, a more realistic approach would be to bring 2xGauss and 6xC-ERML and 22DHS to cool them. 2xGauss barely produces any noticable heat and 22DHS is more than plenty to cool eight medium lasers, with ghost heat. It can even hold an extra C-LPL without affecting its heat efficiency much.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cce3ab9ef5e2fd6

Now, the Dire Wolf is held back by its vulnerable CT. If PGI gives into the whine and adjusts its hitboxes so it's more similar to Stalker and can face-tank, then builds like these are going to be an issue.

The problem PGI has with the Dire Wolf is if they adjust the CT to be say 20% smaller, then you are going to see even more whining from Dire Wolf pilots complaining about getting side torsoed all the time.

[Gyrok]

Ebonkosh, on 26 June 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

I was in a match today with a Direwolf that had three Gauss rifle and 6 C-ermed lasers. How is this pinpoint dam even remotely fair? thats 45 dam from the gauss and 42 from the med lasers. So he can do 87 dam with a alpha strike. What is the point of this?

Let me change that to 30Gauss and 42 from the lasers then .75 secs later add 15 more dam for the 3rd gauss. I know this build is not the best and there are some below that are better but my concern is that IS mechs value is there. The pros and Cons didn't seem to balance out during real combat in matches. Same goes for IS light mechs that may be way better than Clan light mechs.



E

We rolled those guys with 4xCUAC10 on 3xDW and a summoner with LRM support.

[Khobai]

Quote

The problem PGI has with the Dire Wolf is if they adjust the CT to be say 20% smaller, then you are going to see even more whining from Dire Wolf pilots complaining about getting side torsoed all the time

No one would complain about that. Getting side torsod is exactly what clan mechs want to put that clan XL to use.

Also its CT needs to be reduced more than 20%, Its CT needs to be reduced by at least one-third of its current size. My suggestion is to give it the same treatment as the Atlas and divide its crotch region up between its legs. The Dire Wolf has massive amounts of leg armor it doesnt even get to use and making the crotch part of the legs would let the Dire Wolf put that leg armor to better use.

Edited by Khobai, 27 June 2014 - 12:35 AM.

[Turist0AT]

Ebonkosh, on 26 June 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

I was in a match today with a Direwolf that had three Gauss rifle and 6 C-ermed lasers. How is this pinpoint dam even remotely fair? thats 45 dam from the gauss and 42 from the med lasers. So he can do 87 dam with a alpha strike. What is the point of this?

Let me change that to 30Gauss and 42 from the lasers then .75 secs later add 15 more dam for the 3rd gauss. I know this build is not the best and there are some below that are better but my concern is that IS mechs value is there. The pros and Cons didn't seem to balance out during real combat in matches. Same goes for IS light mechs that may be way better than Clan light mechs.



E

You arnt the brightest kid in your class, are you?

[Lily from animove]

Ebonkosh, on 26 June 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

I was in a match today with a Direwolf that had three Gauss rifle and 6 C-ermed lasers. How is this pinpoint dam even remotely fair? thats 45 dam from the gauss and 42 from the med lasers. So he can do 87 dam with a alpha strike. What is the point of this?

Let me change that to 30Gauss and 42 from the lasers then .75 secs later add 15 more dam for the 3rd gauss. I know this build is not the best and there are some below that are better but my concern is that IS mechs value is there. The pros and Cons didn't seem to balance out during real combat in matches. Same goes for IS light mechs that may be way better than Clan light mechs.



E

No1. 1,3 sec burntime lasers are not pinpoint.

No.2 if they are my 13 CERML Nova can top this 91 (totally ignoring any overhating issues).

[Monkey Lover]

Turist0AT, on 27 June 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

You arnt the brightest kid in your class, are you?

Would this class allow the word "arnt" ? ;-)

[Lupin]

High Alpha yes, pinpoint (All damage ending up in the same place) unlikely. Unless person you are aiming at standing DEAD still.

[Ultimax]

The 3 Gauss can't be fired at once.

If you let dual gauss hit you, and then you don't take cover you deserve to get hit with the 3rd one.

And ... it's a Direwolf. Don't stand in front of it, it has a number of weaknesses - capitalize on them.

[That Dawg]

Its EXACTLY the right direction.
Its posts just like this, that make everything thing "dam, if I had THAT mech I could DOMINATE"
so, they find a way and truck out and buy whatever package.

its working as intended people

as always, check my sig