155 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

When I get a chance to play, I rarely see LRMs. Depending on the map or the number of LRMs, typically its not a problem.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Jherek C, on 27 June 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

Especially fun if the MM gave your team no single ECM and only a few AMS while the other team has two ECM and LRM-boats everywhere. You can still win this but... the rain getting annoyingly old-

This is the problem with how LRMs are currently set up. They need to remove hard counters like ECM and Radar Deprivation, then you can PROPERLY balance LRMs without having to worry about what your random drop ends up with.

It's stupid when your LRM boat lands against a team with 4 ECM and 8 AMS. And it sucks to land against 4 LRM mechs with a NARC, when your team has no ECM and no AMS. But the matchmaker doesn't take any of that into account.

Mercules, on 27 June 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

Except for the occasional Kitfox who is crazy enough to bring 3... typically not enough ammo though.

Yeah, but they sure as hell make the LRM mechs life difficult to start with.

[Mystere]

Mazzyplz, on 27 June 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

what i mean is they fly a bit faster, and ams is a little less useful vs the stream in the end, even if what you say balances it out a bit

According to this, they are not. And this is supposed to be automatically generated from the game files. Are you saying it's wrong?

Also, I am seeing streamed LRMs being eaten up better by AMS.

Edited by Mystere, 27 June 2014 - 06:59 AM.

[nemesis271989]

Soulblight, on 27 June 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

seriously how do you know that you get narc'd?

I do not understand why a single equipment piece is able to ruin the entire team? Something must be done to the NARC because 30 seconds long radar light up is super long. It must be 10-12 seconds maximum.

[zhajin]

I have not noticed a significant increase in lrms since clans. one thing clans do bring however is the ability to run lrms as a secondary on lighter mechs. previously I would see a number of atlases and highlanders running with a lrm launcher or two. now you can do that on clan heavies and still have room for a reasonable load out.

the narc buffs have also brought out a lot more use, though I suspect that will die down.

another issue may be that with clan out fewer people are running DDCs and ecm lights. we really need a wider range of ecm mechs. It would be a good way to buff up some of the sub-par variants. ecm awesome anyone?

Edited by zhajin, 27 June 2014 - 07:02 AM.

[Mercules]

EyeOne, on 27 June 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

No, they need to fix that problem. Not bandaid it with more ammo. Give AMS LOS. Why is that not a thing after 2 freakin' years?

Because it would be another "raycast" that might lag the game.

[DYSEQTA]

Soulblight, on 27 June 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

seriously how do you know that you get narc'd?

If you happen to hear the *tink* sound it makes when it hits you then you know. If you are under cover of a hill or some other less than total cover and are still getting rained on with ridiculous accuracy for many seconds then you know.

[Ryoken]

Jupp LRM complains are annoying as frak. Why are people unable to use hardcover and ecm coverage or if they are failing the needed skill an map awareness put ams or radar deprevation on their mechs?

Learn to play instead of whining about an absolutely controlable weapon system.

If you want to whine start adressing wrong ECM implementation or the problem of JJs having to few drawbacks for the benefits they grant.

[Xyroc]

spotter light w/ narc + mobile LRM platform 500m behind him is a great pop tart counter.

Last night corp mate and I did this. Him in Raven 3L me in a CPLT- C4 w/ out artemis ( hardly considered LRM boat monster ). He would narc the pop tart ( or unsuspecting assault mech ) I would bring the rain.

Racked up little over 1100dmg one match mainly do to the enemy panicking and failing to react appropriately.

Again it all comes down to not knowing what to do when up vs a particular enemy. (nothing of the op nature)

IS for the win

Edited by Beliall, 27 June 2014 - 07:05 AM.

[Mercules]

nemesis271989, on 27 June 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

I do not understand why a single equipment piece is able to ruin the entire team? Something must be done to the NARC because 30 seconds long radar light up is super long. It must be 10-12 seconds maximum.

It doesn't ruin the entire team and it isn't a single piece of equipment. It is a piece of equipment that requires you or someone else to mount weapons that can take advantage of it. It also weighs 3 tons with 12 shots per ton which means most mechs carrying it have to load 5 tons, for a situationaly useful item. At 10-12 seconds I would have to reapply it so often it would make me just carrying an SRM6 more effective.

[DarthPeanut]

So many counters to LRM right now.

Run radar dep module, AMS, Clan can run AMS overdrive module I think now as well, ECM cover, etc.

I must be moving up in the mysterious world of MWO ELO cause LRMs seem be a good bit less effective lately.

[Mystere]

The release of the Clans brought along with it a lot of new toys and possibilities. As such, people should bite their lips hard and adjust their tactics accordingly. Running to the forums to complain is, I think, highly premature.

Let the new stuff sink in.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ryoken, on 27 June 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

Jupp LRM complains are annoying as frak. Why are people unable to use hardcover and ecm coverage or if they are failing the needed skill an map awareness put ams or radar deprevation on their mechs? Learn to play instead of whining about an absolutely controlable weapon system. If you want to whine start adressing wrong ECM implementation or the problem of JJs having to few drawbacks for the benefits they grant.

This is the thing that kills me...

If you have LRM issues...there are literally 4 mechanisms in the game to help you. Lets assume you aren't in an ECM mech though. And did I mention one of the items has bonus modules?

First off, there is the MISSILE INCOMING warning you get. This only helps if you aren't way out of position. You do know you need to stay near cover in this game right?

Secondly Radar Deprivation, same deal as above...only helps if you aren't in the middle of the water in Crimson with no cover near by. Once again, you DO understand that cover is paramount in this game right?

Then you have AMS, some mechs have 2 AMS...some even have 3 AMS...AND on top of that, AMS assists other teammates. So if LRMs are a major problem in this game, your whole team should be packing AMS now right? Especially with the new half-ton ammo.

OH and did I mention there is a new range extension module for AMS? And the AMS Overload module? To make them even better?

So if you are having trouble with LRMs and complaining on the boards, I'm assuming you are taking advantage of all of that right? Mind you...didn't even count ECM in the equation.

That also doesn't account for the fact that Clan LRMs are fired in streams and thus VERY succeptible to multiple AMS, or an AMS with modules...so Clan LRMs certainly aren't a problem for you right?

Come on people.

[Fut]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 27 June 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

It's stupid when your LRM boat lands against a team with 4 ECM and 8 AMS. And it sucks to land against 4 LRM mechs with a NARC, when your team has no ECM and no AMS. But the matchmaker doesn't take any of that into account.

It's not really stupid, it's a part of war.
Everybody brings what they think will serve them well. If you think that a pure LRM Boat is the best idea, great - but you'll occasionally have to suffer through trying to fight an enemy that's specialized in defending against LRMs.

Really, the best way to get around this, is to build Mechs with Mixed Load-Outs.

[Mizore]

nemesis271989, on 27 June 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

I do not understand why a single equipment piece is able to ruin the entire team? Something must be done to the NARC because 30 seconds long radar light up is super long. It must be 10-12 seconds maximum.

0/10 ... TROLL DETECTED!!!

(Now take a look in the past and ask yourself why nobody used NARC even when LRMs where super strong... and even with this "super overpowered" NARC that we have now:
Try to play around 20 matches in a row and then tell me, how effective it was... I guess, you'll never want to take that piece of **** again, especially in the upper elo area)

The only way NARC could be effective is, when you have some friends and play as a team... but then people just would complain about the super strong LRM-boat and tend to forget that the guy who NARCed them did only very very few damage.

Edited by Mizore, 27 June 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[Ultimax]

Dawnstealer, on 27 June 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

It's just awareness: don't run out into that huge, flat area with no cover unless you're sure you can make it across.

You've just described maybe 75 to 80% of the Cap points on Conquest throughout the game.

I've actually stopped playing Conquest at this point, because without a massive ECM bubble you are likely to see your team washed away in an endless rain of LRMs as they try to cap, unless it's your team with the LRMs advantage.

Assault & Skirmish seem fine.


To be clear, I actually use LRMs on a few builds and still refuse to play conquest with them. It's a game mode and situation that takes a little too much advantage over the inability for pick up teams to communicate, or have prepared defenses vs. LRMs.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 27 June 2014 - 07:10 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Mercules, on 27 June 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

It doesn't ruin the entire team and it isn't a single piece of equipment. It is a piece of equipment that requires you or someone else to mount weapons that can take advantage of it. It also weighs 3 tons with 12 shots per ton which means most mechs carrying it have to load 5 tons, for a situationaly useful item. At 10-12 seconds I would have to reapply it so often it would make me just carrying an SRM6 more effective.

And don't forget AMS, especially when NARC is fired from max range, can shoot down the NARC missile. And it works even better with the AMS range and overload modules.

[nemesis271989]

Mercules, on 27 June 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

It doesn't ruin the entire team and it isn't a single piece of equipment. It is a piece of equipment that requires you or someone else to mount weapons that can take advantage of it. It also weighs 3 tons with 12 shots per ton which means most mechs carrying it have to load 5 tons, for a situationaly useful item. At 10-12 seconds I would have to reapply it so often it would make me just carrying an SRM6 more effective.

Look there is nothing that may counter NARC, if being hit by NARC in Caustic Valley or Alpine Peak you are done, because majority of clan mechs carry LRMs 30+ at least. So with a single NARC rocket you are removing an enemy mech from the game. How is that fair?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Fut, on 27 June 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

It's not really stupid, it's a part of war.
Everybody brings what they think will serve them well. If you think that a pure LRM Boat is the best idea, great - but you'll occasionally have to suffer through trying to fight an enemy that's specialized in defending against LRMs.

Really, the best way to get around this, is to build Mechs with Mixed Load-Outs.

No it's called a poorly designed game. I understand you like Mixed Load-Outs, I do too. But when PGI decided on their hardpoint system, Mixed Load-Outs were immediately made irrellevant if the name of the game is winning and being the best.

In addition, if you drop in a PPC/AC5 meta mech, what do you worry about within the matchmaker? Why are LRMs the only weapon that are feast or famine based on which equipment is on the opposing team when you drop?

It makes no sense. Please don't defend the stupidity.

[Fut]

nemesis271989, on 27 June 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

Look there is nothing that may counter NARC, if being hit by NARC in Caustic Valley or Alpine Peak you are done, because majority of clan mechs carry LRMs 30+ at least. So with a single NARC rocket you are removing an enemy mech from the game. How is that fair?

It's fair because the option to use NARC is available to all of us equally.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 27 June 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

No it's called a poorly designed game. I understand you like Mixed Load-Outs, I do too. But when PGI decided on their hardpoint system, Mixed Load-Outs were immediately made irrellevant if the name of the game is winning and being the best.

In addition, if you drop in a PPC/AC5 meta mech, what do you worry about within the matchmaker? Why are LRMs the only weapon that are feast or famine based on which equipment is on the opposing team when you drop?

It makes no sense. Please don't defend the stupidity.

Well I agree with you that aspects of LRMs are poorly designed - mainly ECM with it's off-switch ability.
However, I think that people are too quick to call for adjustments to the game. An easy way, at the moment, to mitigate the LRM-Havoc is to run AMS, and to build mixed loadouts.

Hopefully someday PGI will re-visit all of the counters for Missiles, but in the meantime, pack some other weapons.

Edited by Fut, 27 June 2014 - 07:18 AM.