155 replies to this topic

[Lootee]

I could remove the so OP Narc from my Kit Fox and use the freed up weight to upgrade my 2 x ERLL to 2 x ERPPC instead. But I guarantee the people whining about 'broken' Narc will like that even less.

Short range weapon that does no damage on its own, difficult to hit a moving target with, uses limited ammo vs 890m AC/20 pinpoint dmg + 10pts of spread damage, never runs out of ammo. Sure I'll switch if you really want me to.

[Mystere]

Fut, on 27 June 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

Sounds like the NARC'r has learned a nice technique. Hopefully it's not the only one they know though.

People should learn to keep their eyes open, and their heads on a swivel - sometimes the enemy has the audacity to attack from an angle you're not actually facing... The nerve of some people. eh?

No, tactics are OP!

[Mazzyplz]

Varent, on 27 June 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

So what your saying is you would prefer to be jump snipped to death without the possibility of reprecussion, or are you one of those jump snipers thats mad because hes getting whats been coming to him?

never used JJs. i prefered to shoot poptarts in flight, or how the lrm worked before clans arrived. that was a fair deal,
right now they just undid what they had done somehow, maybe betty is just glitching, maybe it's something else > i suspect the latter when the new ams and radar modules just don't cut it. i have to run both so i could play like before, so i had to dump a few modules i was using just to counter the rain a bit


i was told by some good players LRM was faster for the clans in flight, if parsed from the gamefiles proves that wrong then i guess i was wrong but this isn't the same LRM dynamics we had b4 clans were introduced at all, it's the number of tubes, betty glitching, narc, something is way off > just imagine for a sec that the radar deprivation module and the 10% ams rate boost weren't in the game when clans got here, all you would see was LRM. realize that even with those in, there is something that isn't working like it should as opposed to how it worked with only IS LRM was around

[Sprouticus]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 27 June 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

No it's called a poorly designed game. I understand you like Mixed Load-Outs, I do too. But when PGI decided on their hardpoint system, Mixed Load-Outs were immediately made irrellevant if the name of the game is winning and being the best.

In addition, if you drop in a PPC/AC5 meta mech, what do you worry about within the matchmaker? Why are LRMs the only weapon that are feast or famine based on which equipment is on the opposing team when you drop?

It makes no sense. Please don't defend the stupidity.

Bold for emphasis:

I just dont think this is true. Ever try running a brawler and end up with a team full of snipers on Alpine? as best you sit there unable to contribute for 2/3 of the match. Ever try running a sniper in river city? Not nearly as bad as my first example, but a properly configured brawler will be on equal footing with even a meta sniper on that map (pilot skill being equal).

I fully admit there are design flaws in the game and that a proper set of counters does not really exist. And my examples above are mapped based and not enemy equipment based. But a sweeping condemnation saying that LRM's boats are the only ones that suffer from over-specialization is simply not true.

[maniacos]

Mercules, on 27 June 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

But your AMS helps, right?

This was aimed at the MM not at the LRM boats. The other team had AMS too. I don't mind if someone boats LRM, he could be on my team and help me. But when the MM puts the two available ECM in one team and leaves the other without at all, I start to think: WTF enough with randomness now, lets have some balance!
Yes MM needs to take loadout into account.

Edited by Jherek C, 27 June 2014 - 08:43 AM.

[Varent]

Mazzyplz, on 27 June 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

never used JJs. i prefered to shoot poptarts in flight, or how the lrm worked before clans arrived. that was a fair deal,
right now they just undid what they had done somehow, maybe betty is just glitching, maybe it's something else > i suspect the latter when the new ams and radar modules just don't cut it. i have to run both so i could play like before, so i had to dump a few modules i was using just to counter the rain a bit


i was told by some good players LRM was faster for the clans in flight, if parsed from the gamefiles proves that wrong then i guess i was wrong but this isn't the same LRM dynamics we had b4 clans were introduced at all, it's the number of tubes, betty glitching, narc, something is way off > just imagine for a sec that the radar deprivation module and the 10% ams rate boost weren't in the game when clans got here, all you would see was LRM. realize that even with those in, there is something that isn't working like it should as opposed to how it worked with only IS LRM was around

the flight is the same, actually slightly worse on clan lrms. Betty is glitched, then again a few things are glitched right now, they did break a few things with the clans, hopefully fixed soon. Honestly a Betty notification of being narced would help most.

[Mystere]

Cricket504, on 27 June 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

I have a Raven that has a LRM5 on it as strictly a distraction weapon as they almost never get past AMS.

I sometimes put on an LRM5 to help find enemies who are using terrain to hide while also being under ECM cover. Those AMS streams tell my team exactly where they are.

[Agent of Change]

If you are mad about LRMS and you are not at least doing one of the following:

1. equipping ams with at least 1 ton per ams
2. Staying near friendlies with ecm/ams

You are probably wrong.

I have in fact seen more LRMs recently, I've also seen fewer deaths to LRMs recently.

They are being primarily as suppression and softening and are only really dangerous if you wander out into the open.

[Sprouticus]

Mazzyplz, on 27 June 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

never used JJs. i prefered to shoot poptarts in flight, or how the lrm worked before clans arrived. that was a fair deal,
right now they just undid what they had done somehow, maybe betty is just glitching, maybe it's something else > i suspect the latter when the new ams and radar modules just don't cut it. i have to run both so i could play like before, so i had to dump a few modules i was using just to counter the rain a bit


i was told by some good players LRM was faster for the clans in flight, if parsed from the gamefiles proves that wrong then i guess i was wrong but this isn't the same LRM dynamics we had b4 clans were introduced at all, it's the number of tubes, betty glitching, narc, something is way off > just imagine for a sec that the radar deprivation module and the 10% ams rate boost weren't in the game when clans got here, all you would see was LRM. realize that even with those in, there is something that isn't working like it should as opposed to how it worked with only IS LRM was around

You are correct. clan LRM's behave differently. They stream. Similar to chain firing LRM5's.

Pros: more impact on the enemy mech vision, etc. (side note: There is some evidence that LRM impulse is too high and that might contribute to this issue)
Cons:. MUCH easier for AMS to kill them. Especially with AMs modules,


If you are a player who lacks the tactical awareness to stay near cover, run a mech that ends up out of cover (scout), or just wants to protect your teammates, AMS makes total sense. Yes, it reduces your firepower, but that is the cost for those of us who are not always tactically aware. The other option is to take your lumps and admit that you made a mistake by going out into the open.

Agent of Change, on 27 June 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

If you are mad about LRMS and you are not at least doing one of the following:

1. equipping ams with at least 1 ton per ams
2. Staying near friendlies with ecm/ams

You are probably wrong.

I have in fact seen more LRMs recently, I've also seen fewer deaths to LRMs recently.

They are being primarily as suppression and softening and are only really dangerous if you wander out into the open.

bold mine.

This. A lot of this.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pygar, on 27 June 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

I call bullshit. I fly both LRM and direct fire boats....and you can stop patting yourself on the back for "aiming" right now. Especially now with RDM adding to the web of ECM and AMS in many matches, getting LRM boats to do effective damage takes work, and many LRM pilots use TAG which does require actual aiming as well. (Getting locks with Clan mechs already requires more "aiming" than you think too... and it requires holding that aim for a lot longer than I would have to with a PPC/Gauss/AC mech. )

Putting a hit scan laser somewhere on a mech I would not call aiming, nor would I call putting your reticle near a mech to get locks aiming. But basically you are saying success in LRM boats depends on how many counters the other team brought, or if you are a 4 man with a NARCer? That isn't how I measure skill sorry. Why can't I pat my back for aiming?

Don't confuse me for the crowd who wants to nerf LRMs. I understand their purpose, just don't think they a particularly exciting way to play the game.

[Varent]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 June 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Why can't I pat my back for aiming?

Because its not about aiming in a simulator shooting game. its about positioning, and intelligent tactics. or at least it should be in mwo. This doesnt need to be another call of duty or titan fall.

[Wolfways]

Mazzyplz, on 27 June 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

i was told by some good players LRM was faster for the clans in flight, if parsed from the gamefiles proves that wrong then i guess i was wrong but this isn't the same LRM dynamics we had b4 clans were introduced at all, it's the number of tubes, betty glitching, narc, something is way off > just imagine for a sec that the radar deprivation module and the 10% ams rate boost weren't in the game when clans got here, all you would see was LRM. realize that even with those in, there is something that isn't working like it should as opposed to how it worked with only IS LRM was around

Both IS and clan LRM's are 160m/s. Clan LRM's have a lower angle so travel to the target "faster" but cannot travel over terrain as high as the IS LRM's can.
I also think Betty gives the incoming missiles warning when the salvo leaves the launcher. (i.e. the last missile in a clan salvo) so it feels like they are getting to the target faster, but it's only about 1 second.

[Gas Guzzler]

Varent, on 27 June 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

Because its not about aiming in a simulator shooting game. its about positioning, and intelligent tactics. or at least it should be in mwo. This doesnt need to be another call of duty or titan fall.

Certainly is not anything like CoD, have never played Titanfall.

It is of course partly about aiming as it is a shooter. Would we all prefer that as soon as your reticle is on target when you shoot, the computers roll some dice to see what component each weapon hits? MechWarrior RPG?

That doesn't sound fun.

Aiming, positioning and intelligent tactics, and TEAMWORK are the most important parts of this game.

[Lootee]

Re: aiming

If I can hit you with a slow moving Narc pod, hitting you with PPCs + a gauss rifle would be trivial. The only difference is the 'OP' Narc does no damage and is a nuisance. The heavy weaponry will leave you with half a mech.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 27 June 2014 - 09:18 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Sprouticus, on 27 June 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

Bold for emphasis: I just dont think this is true. Ever try running a brawler and end up with a team full of snipers on Alpine? as best you sit there unable to contribute for 2/3 of the match. Ever try running a sniper in river city? Not nearly as bad as my first example, but a properly configured brawler will be on equal footing with even a meta sniper on that map (pilot skill being equal). I fully admit there are design flaws in the game and that a proper set of counters does not really exist. And my examples above are mapped based and not enemy equipment based. But a sweeping condemnation saying that LRM's boats are the only ones that suffer from over-specialization is simply not true.

Um, you do realize your examples all surround which maps you drop on right?

My point was about counters.

Do PPC's have a counter? Do AC's have a counter? Even SRM's don't really have a counter (albeit if you shoot at 270, AMS has a chance to pick off some missiles).

Sure you can land on a bad map, that's fine, I get that.

But lets say you land on a neutral map, I dunno, Frozen City?

it's got some hard and soft cover, you can move around as a brawler, also has some great jump sniping areas.

But if you drop with LRMs, your day can be ruined if everyone on the opposing team has Radar Deprivation and AMS.

And it gets even worse if 2 or 3 of them have ECM.

What other weapon setup has that particular issue? It doesn't matter if they are brawlers, jump snipers or even other LRM users. You are screwed because of a module, a 1-1.5 ton passive system and potentially ECM the most grossly overpowered 1.5 ton item in the game.

[Gas Guzzler]

PanchoTortilla, on 27 June 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

Re: aiming

If I can hit you with a slow moving Narc pod, hitting you with PPCs + a gauss rifle would be trivial. The only difference is the 'OP' Narc does no damage and is a nuisance. The heavy weaponry will leave you with half a mech.

NARC has set me from 100% to 40%, less than half a mech remaining. Assault mech, not close enough to cover (close but not close enough).

PPCs + gauss rarely leaves half a mech, lets be real.

Again, not part of the LRMs/NARC OP crowd. Very situational weapons, specifically against disorganized pugs.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 June 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Assault mech, not close enough to cover (close but not close enough).

That is your fault. Right there. That is why you got your butt handed to you. Period.

And you are blaming LRMs.

If you were in that same spot, which means you were in the open, a coordinated team of jump snipers could have cored you out in basically one volley.

And you wouldn't have even gotten a nice "Missile's Incoming" warning, since PPC's and AC's don't warn you.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 27 June 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[Graugger]

WTF can you people do nothing but complain? LRMs are most certainly NOT OP, if anything they need buffed cause of all the UAC rage going on. Something like 325 m/s at the very least to make them usable. Scaling damage within 180 m would be nice too for against those blasted UAC/5 lights that run right up to you.

[Gas Guzzler]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 27 June 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

That is your fault. Right there. That is why you got your butt handed to you. Period.

And you are blaming LRMs.

If you were in that same spot, which means you were in the open, a coordinated team of jump snipers could have cored you out in basically one volley.

And you wouldn't have even gotten a nice "Missile's Incoming" warning, since PPC's and AC's don't warn you.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT I AM NOT BLAMING LRMS? Read the post I was responding too, I was showing how NARC can leave with half a mech, just as PPCs and Gauss can (but really they don't from one hit).

I swear, what you quoted is the only thing you read before jumping down my throat.

I was behind cover, but not LRM cover, IE they had no LoS, but someone popped with NARC when I poked my head over and a few hundred LRMs came flying over the aircraft in frozen city, which is not adequate LRM cover. And I didn't get my butt handed to me, I survived, got legged (LRMs left my leg open and red) and still did a few hundred damage with a kill, and my team won. Everyone get's caught out of position once in a while. Additionally, a lot of people complaining about PPCs and AC5s I have seen play, and seen them stare at meta mechs trying to face tank without twisting, and of course get rolled and come on here to QQ, so LRMs aren't the only victim of this. Again, I'll repeat this in all caps so you can read it.

NARC CAN RESULT IN RUINING YOU BUT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN VERY OFTEN SO DOES NOT NEED A NERF. That was my first post in this thread.. more or less.

Again, it is a combo that is extremely effective in certain situations.

And no, jump snipers would not have insta-cored me because when I poked my head through the breach in the aircraft, I would have seen them and reacted accordingly.. that point is moot.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 27 June 2014 - 09:40 AM.

[Mercules]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 June 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

NARC has set me from 100% to 40%, less than half a mech remaining. Assault mech, not close enough to cover (close but not close enough).

PPCs + gauss rarely leaves half a mech, lets be real.

Again, not part of the LRMs/NARC OP crowd. Very situational weapons, specifically against disorganized pugs.

PPCs + Gauss has set me from 100% to 40%, less than half a mech remaining. Light Mech, turned a corner while a mech was looking right at it, should have kept running but decided to swerve and try and get back into cover.

NARC rarely leaves half a mech, let's be real.

Again, not part of the PPCs + Gauss OP crowd. Very useful weapons in nearly every situation not matter what the opponent is currently piloting that doesn't have hard counters that weigh 1.5 tons.