148 replies to this topic

[W A R L O R D]

JigglyMoobs, on 13 August 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

Here ya go. Only the TBR-C can do the 7 laser build because you need the laser slot on CT.

TBR-C 7 er ML + Gauss

Just use it responsibly or you'll bring down:

Thank you for all your testing and work! Great stuff!

[n r g]

Kain Thul, on 20 September 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

I used to hate it due to the **** PPC travel speed and ditched it early on but figured I'd revisit it.

Yeah ppc's suck and still suck - but what the hell would that have to do with guass, especially running a dual gauss build???

[Kain Demos]

E N E R G Y, on 21 September 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

Yeah ppc's suck and still suck - but what the hell would that have to do with guass, especially running a dual gauss build???

The build I'm referencing is dual PPC one gauss.

[Nightshade24]

apparently to everyone meta is anything that's good.

What I gathered so far...

Used Lasers on a timberwolf?
META!
Used SRM's on a timberwolf?
META!
Is it an LRM boat?
META!
Does it have pulse lasers?
META!

etc... I think dual guass personally isn't a meta (at least on the timberwolf) isn't meta and it's a pleasant change from the lack of ballistics I see on a timby' besides machine guns at best.

Personally I do not care what people say what is and isn't meta, if you are good in it. that what matters. I still have mechs that would be considered meta 1 year ago but still use them now with minor tweaks (thanks half ton ammo!)

[NeoCodex]

JigglyMoobs, on 22 August 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

A lot of people were using this build during the tourney:

MWO - Space invader Timberwolf on River City: http://youtu.be/ZBqTUTDzMfw

I'd like to think of it as the space invader wolf but most just call it the laser vomit build.

At any rate it's pretty good damage if you have good laser HSR.

Basically, tbr -c, 2 lpl, 5 ml, lots of heat sinks.

Sadly I think that this has to be one of the most viable builds on the wolf atm, and I hate it. Jump jets are crap, erppc is a hit and miss, and with all that speed and tough hitboxes it makes more sense to make it just an agile laser boat all-in-one poker/brawler. Overall those other weapons are not bad, but it's just not tonnage effective to put in so many jumpjets and the ballistics or erppc, lasers are just more tonnage effective for what they can do on this mech and that's the reality. I've been trying to run my differently but old builds either don't work as well anymore or anything else I tried wasn't as effective anymore. Except for the splat wolf with LBX, that might still work, but that's just for fun. And well there's the twin gauss.

It just saddens me that from what it was and what it could be, the best way to run it is it to make it a boring laser boat.

I still think the best advantage of the Wolf are the hitboxes, however. Lately I've been running back on my Protector and DS again, and whenever there's a Wolf around, it always means trouble. God forbid two at once, had a situation yesterday with 3 of them close by in River City, and I was running a gauss/ppc protector, guess how that went. Those hitboxes man, and with their speed and that XL, I think that's what sets it a league apart from the IS.

Edited by NeoCodex, 21 September 2014 - 10:37 PM.

[Trumpetteer]

What about this build that I threw together when I was drunk?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...611c30bd6dfc853

[NeoCodex]

If you ditch the LRM, how about something like this? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...db6b6228c6b23c3

It seems slightly less dps, but it's a lot cooler and with the range module you'll be hitting optimal damage at 600 with all of your weapons.

Edited by NeoCodex, 23 September 2014 - 04:12 AM.

[Trumpetteer]

Yeah, that might work pretty well. I kept the LRMs because of traditional Timber wolf look.

[Kain Demos]

NeoCodex, on 23 September 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

If you ditch the LRM, how about something like this? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...db6b6228c6b23c3

It seems slightly less dps, but it's a lot cooler and with the range module you'll be hitting optimal damage at 600 with all of your weapons.

I ran that for a while as well as a version that used 2 x CERLL instead which freed up 4 tons for ammo, heat sinks, TC, and CAP.

I'm liking PPCs better for the pin point damage at medium range. The combination just seems so much more "bursty" with the damage.

Trumpetteer, on 23 September 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Yeah, that might work pretty well. I kept the LRMs because of traditional Timber wolf look.

I was like this at first too but changed my mind about LRM20s in this game.

1. It seems that without Artemis there really isn't a point. I'd rather Art LRM15 x 2 than regualr LRM20 x 2
2. It seems that with LRMs its either boat them or don't take them. I've tried builds that still had large lasers, large pulse lasers, a few mediums, etc but you end up with a pretty small amount of ammo this way that goes surprisingly fast.

I use my Prime as an LRM20 boat and have had great success with it. At first I had two CERLL as backup/supplementary damage but I switched this to 4 x CERML for a few reasons. FIrst, though the range is reduced the damage (and heat) is more. The beam duration is shorter too and this really helps when the other side realizes you're crushing them with LRMs and sends a light or two after you. The last reason is that it freed up 4 tons--more ammo and a TAG could then be carried.

It also restores the "classic" Timberwolf look!

Edited by Kain Thul, 23 September 2014 - 08:20 AM.

[Trumpetteer]

Kain Thul, on 23 September 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

I ran that for a while as well as a version that used 2 x CERLL instead which freed up 4 tons for ammo, heat sinks, TC, and CAP.

I'm liking PPCs better for the pin point damage at medium range. The combination just seems so much more "bursty" with the damage.



I was like this at first too but changed my mind about LRM20s in this game.

1. It seems that without Artemis there really isn't a point. I'd rather Art LRM15 x 2 than regualr LRM20 x 2
2. It seems that with LRMs its either boat them or don't take them. I've tried builds that still had large lasers, large pulse lasers, a few mediums, etc but you end up with a pretty small amount of ammo this way that goes surprisingly fast.

I use my Prime as an LRM20 boat and have had great success with it. At first I had two CERLL as backup/supplementary damage but I switched this to 4 x CERML for a few reasons. FIrst, though the range is reduced the damage (and heat) is more. The beam duration is shorter too and this really helps when the other side realizes you're crushing them with LRMs and sends a light or two after you. The last reason is that it freed up 4 tons--more ammo and a TAG could then be carried.

It also restores the "classic" Timberwolf look!

Derp reread it.

You have it something similar to this?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...73cf428624cf63d

Edited by Trumpetteer, 23 September 2014 - 08:55 AM.

[Kain Demos]

More like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a3ce5b76b1383b8


Dang it....didn't enable LA actuators.

My personal best for damage in this build is 1338.

Edited by Kain Thul, 23 September 2014 - 10:07 AM.

[Trumpetteer]

Well, on wins I've been consistently getting this.

[Kain Demos]

Trumpetteer, on 25 September 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

Well, on wins I've been consistently getting this.

With which build?

[Inflatable Fish]

your thread is based on a fallacy.

there are no non-meta Timber Wolves.

[Trumpetteer]

Kain Thul, on 25 September 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

With which build?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...73cf428624cf63d

[JigglyMoobs]

W A R L O R D, on 21 September 2014 - 08:32 PM, said:

Thank you for all your testing and work! Great stuff!

You're welcome!

NeoCodex, on 21 September 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

Sadly I think that this has to be one of the most viable builds on the wolf atm, and I hate it. Jump jets are crap, erppc is a hit and miss, and with all that speed and tough hitboxes it makes more sense to make it just an agile laser boat all-in-one poker/brawler. Overall those other weapons are not bad, but it's just not tonnage effective to put in so many jumpjets and the ballistics or erppc, lasers are just more tonnage effective for what they can do on this mech and that's the reality. I've been trying to run my differently but old builds either don't work as well anymore or anything else I tried wasn't as effective anymore. Except for the splat wolf with LBX, that might still work, but that's just for fun. And well there's the twin gauss.

It just saddens me that from what it was and what it could be, the best way to run it is it to make it a boring laser boat.

I still think the best advantage of the Wolf are the hitboxes, however. Lately I've been running back on my Protector and DS again, and whenever there's a Wolf around, it always means trouble. God forbid two at once, had a situation yesterday with 3 of them close by in River City, and I was running a gauss/ppc protector, guess how that went. Those hitboxes man, and with their speed and that XL, I think that's what sets it a league apart from the IS.

This. You've nailed it. This is exactly what people predicted would happen when they nerfered the ppc. The same exact people are dominating the solo queue, except now all they need is a single timberwolf instead of the entire lance necessary with the pop tart meta. Heck, even a single stormcrow could do it.

If gauss erppc combo was still viable, these laser builds would be a lot less common because sooner or later they'd run into a pop tart that could counter them from long range.

[Kain Demos]

JigglyMoobs, on 25 September 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

You're welcome!



This. You've nailed it. This is exactly what people predicted would happen when they nerfered the ppc. The same exact people are dominating the solo queue, except now all they need is a single timberwolf instead of the entire lance necessary with the pop tart meta. Heck, even a single stormcrow could do it.

If gauss erppc combo was still viable, these laser builds would be a lot less common because sooner or later they'd run into a pop tart that could counter them from long range.

I've recently revisited 2 x CERPPC/1 X CGAUSS on my TBR-S. I removed all the JJs and the -S LT and RT (to get rid of the negative quirks) and I find that I really like this combo. Compared to my TBR-C with the standard 2 x CLPL 4 x CERML build I just seem to get way more kills with the increased pinpoint damage. Running the laser vomit I can get 600-700 damage at times with no kills where I've gotten 5-6 with as little as 350 damage running the PPC and Gauss combo. I especially find the PPC/Gauss combo to reign supreme in hit and run, corner peaking, and flanking/rear attacks where you come up behind your enemies.

Of course, I'm just a scrub with a 1:1 K/D ratio and 1.2:1 W/L that has been playing for less than a month but I'm sick of doing great damage and getting no kills to show for it. My "laser vomit" TBR-C has the worst K/D ratio of all the 'mechs that I use. I can only dream of how fun it was before they nerfed PPCs......this travel speed does really suck and I go through some bad long range accuracy droughts at times.

I think my first week or two using PPCs my hit rate was aroudn 40%....I've slowly got that up to near 60 now.

Edited by Kain Thul, 25 September 2014 - 11:59 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Getting kills with the laser builds depend strongly on 3 things.

1. HSR needs to be working for you. Often it isn't. Locking your arms and standing still while you shoot can help.
2. Knowing where to shoot. When running that build I stack up tc or cap with target info module. This way you get the paper doll almost instantly and I'm always checking it before I shoot.
3. Holding you cursor precisely on the component you want to target. Lower sensitivity and use of the zoom button helps.

[Kain Demos]

JigglyMoobs, on 25 September 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

Getting kills with the laser builds depend strongly on 3 things.

1. HSR needs to be working for you. Often it isn't. Locking your arms and standing still while you shoot can help.
2. Knowing where to shoot. When running that build I stack up tc or cap with target info module. This way you get the paper doll almost instantly and I'm always checking it before I shoot.
3. Holding you cursor precisely on the component you want to target. Lower sensitivity and use of the zoom button helps.

I tend to run a Mk1 TC and CAP unless it literally just can't fit (it cant' on my 2 PPC/Gauss TW as long as I want max armor and 30rds of ammo) so I do run them on the 2 x CLPL + 4 x CERML build. I keep arm lock off (need it for trackign down fast movers sometimes) but will hold left shift to temporarily lock them when I'm trying to be very precise as I've seen the huge difference it makes in not spreading your damage especially in a build like this where two of my lasers are in the torsos. I definitely use advanced zoom as well though if they are within 200m I think just the regular 2x zoom is better for mouse over-sensitivity reasons. I hear you on the standing still part too--if I've successfully flanked or reached the rear I always absolutely make sure to stand still and make those first hits to the rear torsos count.

Digging through my stats it looks like in nearly the same number of games my laser vomit build and PPC/Gauss build have done the same amount of damage but K/D vastly favors PPC/Gauss while laser vomit still has the best W/L.

I think this says more about my skills (or lack thereof) and what suits me best than perhaps the builds themselves.

In both builds I take risks and overheat in the middle of a battle far too often. I just get used to being able to alpha at 60% on map X but then forget on map y that is a 10 second shutdown. God I hate Terra Therma.

Edited by Kain Thul, 25 September 2014 - 03:28 PM.

[operatorZ]

Soooo....no one else running a 4srm6 uac20 build? Seriously I will rip those med lasers off your mech and feed them to you.... The only assault I can't take consistently in this build is the DW. Of course if your UAC jams twice you usually are done but that only happens rarely. Way worth the risk for a possible 86 damage cycle. I can usually get off 3 straight cycles without overheating... 264 damage in like <20 seconds. And if I'm patient with my trigger and wait 1 second between weapons I can usually get 5 cycles before overheat

But maybe somebody else already mentioned this build