125 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

[Lynx7725]

As long as it can clear the ground enough to quick turn, I suspect jump brawlers would be ok.

The current set of fall damage, JJ adjustments, etc. is turning those Aerofighters with legs and arms into proper Battlemechs...

EDIT: come to think of it, it might work out better for my Miffed Kitty. Artemis for my CSRM24, and still have (very) limited jump for quick turns.

Edited by Lynx7725, 07 July 2014 - 08:33 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Only took them a year and a half.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lynx7725, on 07 July 2014 - 08:32 PM, said:

As long as it can clear the ground enough to quick turn, I suspect jump brawlers would be ok.

The current set of fall damage, JJ adjustments, etc. is turning those Aerofighters with legs and arms into proper Battlemechs...

EDIT: come to think of it, it might work out better for my Miffed Kitty. Artemis for my CSRM24, and still have (very) limited jump for quick turns.

jump turning on the bigger ones hadn't been too effective for awhile. If they are keeping the VTR nerfed in that regard, I would prefer it be a little more even handed, TBH.

[Lynx7725]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

jump turning on the bigger ones hadn't been too effective for awhile. If they are keeping the VTR nerfed in that regard, I would prefer it be a little more even handed, TBH.

Victor jump turning is now a bit slow, I'd agree, but every bit helps. I'll just take what I have and work with it.

[FupDup]

The question is, how many jets will one need to reach the same height as we do now? (i.e. what will the "cutoff" point be).

[Lukoi Banacek]

I don't think they get it, I really don't.

This will not cripple the poptart meta any more than the last JJ-nerf did. And tbh, jump turning has never been a game breaker really. A great advantage, but not enough to hurt the game. Poptarting is the premiere tactic, and this will not hurt it overly much. Degrade it maybe, but not nearly that much to take Poptarting to the realm of "truly a challenging skillset."

Just my opinion of course.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Lynx7725, on 07 July 2014 - 08:32 PM, said:

As long as it can clear the ground enough to quick turn, I suspect jump brawlers would be ok.

I'm pretty sure that a while back they changed it so that while jumping you turn slightly slower. Not sure about the lights but I'm fairly positive that is true for heavies and assaults.

[ShinVector]

Vassago Rain, on 07 July 2014 - 08:34 PM, said:

Only took them a year and a half.

Again !?! Didn't they mess this up at least once already.

[El Bandito]

My Meta DS has 4 JJs equipped all the time. Try again, Russ.

[Vassago Rain]

After careful consideration, and knowing how PGI works, I've figured out how they'll ruin this for everybody.

One jet won't carry you high enough to brawl. Taking multiple jets will, but this now generates magical ghost jet heat, and you'll go to 40% for having 3, and instantly explode if you bolt on 5.

The 'not near as high' simply means you won't be able to poptart a mountain side, but can still totally poptart over walls, rocks, other mechs, and anything else that's not taller than an atlas, while the brawler gundams are rendered completely worthless.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lukoi, on 07 July 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

I don't think they get it, I really don't.

This will not cripple the poptart meta any more than the last JJ-nerf did. And tbh, jump turning has never been a game breaker really. A great advantage, but not enough to hurt the game. Poptarting is the premiere tactic, and this will not hurt it overly much. Degrade it maybe, but not nearly that much to take Poptarting to the realm of "truly a challenging skillset."

Just my opinion of course.

It will make it more difficult and make you more vulnerable, especially if you have low slung weapons. Because from the time your head crests to the time you can shoot your weapons will be longer making you an easier target. It will also make you have to take more JJs which means less heatsinks and/or speed.

[Lukoi Banacek]

El Bandito, on 07 July 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

My Meta DS has 4 JJs equipped all the time. Try again, Russ.

My point exactly

[El Bandito]

Vassago Rain, on 07 July 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

After careful consideration, and knowing how PGI works, I've figured out how they'll ruin this for everybody. One jet won't carry you high enough to brawl. Taking multiple jets will, but this now generates magical ghost jet heat, and you'll go to 40% for having 3, and instantly explode if you bolt on 5. The 'not near as high' simply means you won't be able to poptart a mountain side, but can still totally poptart over walls, rocks, other mechs, and anything else that's not taller than an atlas, while the brawler gundams are rendered completely worthless.

Hasn't that always been the case. Everything, from JJ tweaks to twist speed, to leg damage, have been hurting jump brawlers more than the poptarts.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 July 2014 - 08:51 PM.

[YueFei]

The problem with JJs is that it doesn't adhere to physics.

Regardless of how many JJs you put, the moment you tap spacebar, you instantaneously achieve a high ascent speed.

JJs need to accelerate you upward starting from an ascent speed of 0.

And the more JJs you put, the faster that acceleration.

Example: you strap 1 JJ on. You accelerate at 1 meter/sec^2. Currently you reach roughly 2 meter/sec instantly. With this change, 1 JJ will require you to burn the jets for 2 seconds to reach the same altitude that you were able to reach in 1 second with the old JJ implementation.

[Ultimax]

This will be interesting.

I suspect VTR will remain unchallenged in it's current poptart tier.

TBR Gauss (3T Ammo) + 2x cERPPC can probably shave at least one more ton (it's getting close - but it can probably spare 2 tons) to get a second JJ, but the heat might cause serious issues regardless.

CTF-3D might be able to adapt.


Now if they could just tone down 30 points hitting a nipple sized pinpoint - we might see some other playstyles move up a rung or two.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 July 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

It will make it more difficult and make you more vulnerable, especially if you have low slung weapons. Because from the time your head crests to the time you can shoot your weapons will be longer making you an easier target. It will also make you have to take more JJs which means less heatsinks and/or speed.

Hence where I wrote degrade vice cripple. It will not stop the meta AT ALL.

One less heatsink does nothing to a player who is already 600m away and hiding behind the hill he just fell behind.

The majority of ace poptarts are not relying on one JJ as it stands now anyway. They are addressing a problem that existed before the LAST JJ patch, not current meta.

Edited by Lukoi, 07 July 2014 - 08:50 PM.

[FupDup]

Speaking of which, this game's JJ design is just bad from the very foundation. Jets in this game make you go up slow and steady like a goodyear blimp. People use them for poptarting because that's basically all they're capable of doing.

If they wanted jets used for things like terrain navigation or dodging rather than jumpsniping, they should have probably gone with the MWLL route. Jets there gave you a very fast and powerful "kick" that let you cover a lot of horizontal distance in a short time, rather than the slowmo ascent in MWO. They were a totally badass brawling tool in that mod, way more fun than blimp-style jets that PGI stole from MW4.

Edited by FupDup, 07 July 2014 - 08:55 PM.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 07 July 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Speaking of which, this game's JJ design is just bad from the very foundation. Jets in this game make you go up slow and steady like a goodyear blimp. People use them for poptarting because that's basically all they're capable of doing.

If they wanted jets used for things like terrain navigation or dodging rather than jumpsniping, they should have probably gone with the MWLL route. Jets there gave you a very fast and powerful "kick" that let you cover a lot of horizontal distance in a short time, but without giving you that much height. They were a totally badass brawling tool in that mod, way more fun than blimp-style jets that PGI stole from MW4.

That sounds awesome, I wish they were more like that.

[John80sk]

Won't do anything about pop-tarts... might kill the *****-wolf I guess. Insignificant change is insignificant, if anything it will narrow the meta further.

FupDup, on 07 July 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Speaking of which, this game's JJ design is just bad from the very foundation. Jets in this game make you go up slow and steady like a goodyear blimp. People use them for poptarting because that's basically all they're capable of doing.

If they wanted jets used for things like terrain navigation or dodging rather than jumpsniping, they should have probably gone with the MWLL route. Jets there gave you a very fast and powerful "kick" that let you cover a lot of horizontal distance in a short time, rather than the slowmo ascent in MWO. They were a totally badass brawling tool in that mod, way more fun than blimp-style jets that PGI stole from MW4.

I would love it if jumpjets catapulted you forward at a 45 degree angle or so. Jump in with a brawler, duke it out for a bit and have the ability to jump out if things get too hairy.