35 replies to this topic

[GMAK]

How do I get that?

Thanks.

[Spleenslitta]

They are Clan weapons. Only clan mechs have them.

[Alaskan Nobody]

As Spleen said, Clan mechs are given different weapon highlight colors to help differentiate between the two groups.

Clan mechs are available for "pre-order" (even though we have passed the date of arrival for that, they are and will be available that way for a while yet)

They will be released and available for Cbills and MC over the next few months

[Redacted]

[GMAK]

This is unfortunade, er medium laser sound good.

Thanks for the info.

[Alaskan Nobody]

If it is any consolation, they will almost guaranteed be cheaper than they "should" be.

PGI has already shown willingness to discount built-in upgrades
Mechs that come with DHS, for example, cost less than their equivalents + DHS cost

And Clan mechs tend to come with plenty of built-in upgrades. (ALL of them have DHS stock for example)

Edited by Shar Wolf, 02 July 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[Koniving]

Mak54291, on 02 July 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

How do I get that?

Thanks.

As mentioned.
In the first half of August the first Clan mech, Kit Fox (Uller), will become available for Cbills.

The Clans are an invading force that won't 'officially' be here until Community Warfare begins, supposedly in August. For now they are being balanced and tweaked.

The rest inside the spoiler is some lore to explain what they are, where they come from, etc.

Spoiler

Several hundred years in the past, almost the entire Star League Defense Force left in self-imposed exile. This was called Operation Exodus.
Kerensky's words, (not heard for over 100 years in the future after our current time line) give an explanation.
"I have done this, neither out of disappointment for those we leave behind, nor out of spite or disdain as some will say. No. We have left the Inner Sphere because we love it too much to see it destroyed. In the wake of the Usurper's coup, and the long bitter fighting that came with it -- I fear that my forces will do incalculable, possibly irrepairable harm to our society.
....With the might of our mechs out of reach, the leaders who now grapple with one another, will relinquish their dreams of subjugating their neighbors and learn to live in peace with one another."

After they left, what was left built up anything and everything that was left and went to war with one another.

The descendants of those SLDF forces never lost their technology, unlike the Inner Sphere, and are thus more advanced to a degree. They have returned earlier than Kerensky intended, citing their gospel ("The Remembrance") as giving them reason to return home and retake Terra (the Earth).

The Earth is run by the neutral illuminati-like faction Comstar, which has intentionally been sabotaging every faction's technology to keep them in a technological stone age. Many factions have actually lost any true knowledge or capability to build or repair certain mechs over time or use some weapons. The Streak missile launcher is one such thing that they only recently relearned how to produce, as well as double heatsinks, XL engines, etc.

All the other factions are fighting among themselves.

And then the Clans step in.
To quote Clan Wolf: "By the Bloodnames of the Founders we must return; return and protect that which is unique upon the stars. Terra awaits us as it was written." They seek to protect it from the Inner Sphere.
To quote Clan Jade Falcon: "We will retake what is ours by might, that shining jewel, Terra! Not the Vastness of Space nor the Wolf's obstinate howl will stay us from our righteous goal. We are crusaders and will trample all who stay in our way!"

Each Clan has its own reasons. But they're here.

How PGI has put them in is quite lore unfriendly, but Community Warfare isn't here yet. That's coming in the next few months.
Then we'll have the public queue for random pug matches, and the faction queue for Community Warfare, where a team of Davions fight a team of Steiners, where Clan Ghost Bear fights the FRR. Etc.

If you're interested in more Clan stuff.. Click here. Some good vids there.

Edited by Koniving, 03 July 2014 - 06:29 PM.

[Ertur]

Koniving, on 02 July 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

... where a team of Davions fight a team of Steiners, where Clan Ghost Bear fights the FRR. Etc.

It should be several years before Steiners and Davions fight, right now they're best buddies in the Federated Commonwealth. Kathy is still lurking in the wings before she makes her explosive floral debut.

[Revis Volek]

Shar Wolf, on 02 July 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

If it is any consolation, they will almost guaranteed be cheaper than they "should" be.

PGI has already shown willingness to discount built-in upgrades
Mechs that come with DHS, for example, cost less than their equivalents + DHS cost

And Clan mechs tend to come with plenty of built-in upgrades. (ALL of them have DHS stock for example)

I dont see it happening like this....i dont know what the Clan Mechs will cost but the resale values are often 4x as much as my most expensive IS mech. Dont get your hopes up on them being "CHEAPER"....if they resell for over $4million cbills i see them costing about $9million - $12million to purchase for c-bills possibly 3,500 -4,500 MC.

[Alaskan Nobody]

DarthRevis, on 02 July 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

I dont see it happening like this....i dont know what the Clan Mechs will cost but the resale values are often 4x as much as my most expensive IS mech. Dont get your hopes up on them being "CHEAPER"....if they resell for over $4million cbills i see them costing about $9million - $12million to purchase for c-bills possibly 3,500 -4,500 MC.

I rather doubt they will be that more expensive.

More expensive?
Almost guaranteed

4x though?

As I said, they have already cut the costs of all the mechs that come with upgrades.
Some of the IS chassis we have should be costing 20m +
The Awesome 9M for example, or the AS7-K, each less than 14m

Again though - since you missed it before.

They will be expensive (they come with XL engines and DHS after all) but they will almost guaranteed be less expensive than the sum of their parts.

[Koniving]

Indeed.
Atlas K in MWO. 13,691,066.

Summary of an Atlas K's parts.
(making the exact same mech on an Atlas D and using only the difference in price)
6,982,000.

Combined cost of parts Atlas K + Atlas K with parts... = 20,673,066
...meanwhile tabletop price of an Atlas K: Cost: 22,576,000 C-bills

So MWO's price for something else?
I roughly estimated Dire Wolf's price to be a little over 14 million despite how TT's price is more than 29 million.
In time we'll see if I'm right.

[Revis Volek]

Take a look for yourselves....They are not cheap. If you own clan mechs you can see the resale values and with a little math make the guess on your own.

Also, i never said it would be as expensive as the sum of its parts nor did i say they will be 4x as expensive. I said "THE RESALE VALUES ARE ALMOST 4X as much as the IS mechs i own" (in fewer words).....you are now putting words in my mouth sir. So since YOU missed it.....

But we will see, i hope they are priced so everyone can have them!

[Alaskan Nobody]

DarthRevis, on 02 July 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Also, i never said it would be as expensive as the sum of its parts nor did i say they will be 4x as expensive. I said "THE RESALE VALUES ARE ALMOST 4X as much as the IS mechs i own" (in fewer words).....you are now putting words in my mouth sir. So since YOU missed it.....

I apologize then
I have spent a fair amount of time being talked at by people who would have said that with the intention that I pick up what I did. (and people wonder why I am not more social )

[C E Dwyer]

Koniving, on 02 July 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

As mentioned.
In the first half of August the first Clan mech, Kit Fox (Uller), will become available for Cbills.

The Clans are an invading force that won't 'officially' be here until Community Warfare begins, supposedly in August. For now they are being balanced and tweaked.

The rest inside the spoiler is some lore to explain what they are, where they come from, etc.

Spoiler

Several hundred years in the past, almost the entire Star League Defense Force left in self-imposed exile. This was called Operation Exodus.
Kerensky's words, (not heard for over 100 years in the future after our current time line) give an explanation.
"I have done this, neither out of disappointment for those we leave behind, nor out of spite or disdain as some will say. No. We have left the Inner Sphere because we love it too much to see it destroyed. In the wake of the Usurper's coup, and the long bitter fighting that came with it -- I fear that my forces will do incalculable, possibly irrepairable harm to our society.
....With the might of our mechs out of reach, the leaders who now grapple with one another, will relinquish their dreams of subjugating their neighbors and learn to live in peace with one another."

After they left, what was left built up anything and everything that was left and went to war with one another.

The descendants of those SLDF forces never lost their technology, unlike the Inner Sphere, and are thus more advanced to a degree. They have returned earlier than Kerensky intended, citing their gospel ("The Remembrance") as giving them reason to return home and retake Terra (the Earth).

The Earth is run by the neutral illuminati-like faction Comstar, which has intentionally been sabotaging every faction's technology to keep them in a technological stone age. Many factions have actually lost any true knowledge or capability to build or repair certain mechs over time or use some weapons. The Streak missile launcher is one such thing that they only recently relearned how to produce, as well as double heatsinks, XL engines, etc.

All the other factions are fighting among themselves.

And then the Clans step in.
To quote Clan Wolf: "By the Bloodnames of the Founders we must return; return and protect that which is unique upon the stars. Terra awaits us as it was written." They seek to protect it from the Inner Sphere.
To quote Clan Jade Falcon: "We will retake what is ours by might, that shining jewel, Terra! Not the Vastness of Space nor the Wolf's abstinent howl will stay us from our righteous goal. We are crusaders and will trample all who stay in our way!"

Each Clan has its own reasons. But they're here.

How PGI has put them in is quite lore unfriendly, but Community Warfare isn't here yet. That's coming in the next few months.
Then we'll have the public queue for random pug matches, and the faction queue for Community Warfare, where a team of Davions fight a team of Steiners, where Clan Ghost Bear fights the FRR. Etc.

If you're interested in more Clan stuff.. Click here. Some good vids there.

this is the bit I find hardest to deal with the fact that kerenski's people would have lost their tech not in wars but just simple acts of survival, caniablising the space ships to form societies, in a small grouop let alone form all the different clans..

I mean what did they have instant cities just add water to the mix .

way to past the realm of science fiction to be credible

[Xarian]

Cathy, on 02 July 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

this is the bit I find hardest to deal with the fact that kerenski's people would have lost their tech not in wars but just simple acts of survival, caniablising the space ships to form societies, in a small grouop let alone form all the different clans..

I mean what did they have instant cities just add water to the mix .

way to past the realm of science fiction to be credible

Sorta hard to judge credibility on an event that's never happened before. I find it perfectly reasonable that they kept their tech.

[Connaugh]

Cathy, on 02 July 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

this is the bit I find hardest to deal with the fact that kerenski's people would have lost their tech not in wars but just simple acts of survival, caniablising the space ships to form societies, in a small grouop let alone form all the different clans..

I mean what did they have instant cities just add water to the mix .

way to past the realm of science fiction to be credible

Just to give a little more information (if not already known):

The "1st" Exodus

The "2nd" Exodus If youre not willing to read everything, the end of the second passage and the beginning of the third give a short hint on how the clans evolved and that those who went into exile not just magically kept their knowledge

And regarding your "doubts" of capabilities:

Battletech Wiki said:

A total of nearly six million personnel, a third of which were soldiers and the rest civilians, were carried in 1,349 JumpShips, 402 WarShips and over 5,000 DropShips.

Do you really think there was no one able to build a house?

Edited by Connaugh, 02 July 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[Koniving]

Cathy, on 02 July 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

this is the bit I find hardest to deal with the fact that kerenski's people would have lost their tech not in wars but just simple acts of survival, caniablising the space ships to form societies, in a small grouop let alone form all the different clans..

I mean what did they have instant cities just add water to the mix .

way to past the realm of science fiction to be credible

Alexander Kerensky's people were just fine... for a while. His son, Nicholas, as the forces began to be restless, sanctioned 20 leaders with the names of 20 animals, sent them off to find planets, and began to arrange how their lives would be. (the 2nd Exodus above describes it in far more detail).

The Clans all were given specific rules. They would announce raids. Bid minimum offense and defense. Various targets were NOT to be shot under any condition. Violators were judged in Trials. In comparison to Earth history, when Exodus occurred, the Inner Sphere went from being Greek in the aftermath of Sparta and Athens waging war with one another, to the state of Ethiopians during World War II (fighting until it's down to barely dressed villagers throwing stones at one another). Meanwhile the Clans became Romans at the time where they had just conquered the rest of Italy, or the British during the Colonial era where wars had rules and regulations and after the fight the winner and loser sit down and drink tea together.

Except the Clans didn't do the tea drinking tidbit.

These rules specifically stated that only the warrior caste were targets. Resources such as scientists could be bid and won, but no one mistreated them. Any time someone developed new technology, bids were thrown at scheduled times and months to win access to it. This is how Jade Falcon acquired the technology to develop the Summoner; they made a bid against Clan Coyote which developed the technology and won the fight, and as conditions of victory it forced Clan Coyote to share the technology.

In their new society that developed over the next few hundred years, the riots on the first planet that Smoke Jaguar took over... as people rebelled against the Clan rule, as riots took to the streets with banners and protests... those of the Smoke Jaguar were terrified, the people of the Inner Sphere were savages, monkeys, criminally insane, lunatics, wild animals, barbaric, Surats! It was as if someone found threw a chunk of meat and unleashed thousands of hungry lions upon it.

(In BattleTech, "Surat" a Clan-language epithet referring to a monkey-like creature with a long prehensile tail and bat-like wings, sometimes kept as pets within the Clans.)

Absolute insanity...
...and all it was...was an organized protest turned riot against their new rulers.

The Inner Sphere however, had all out true warfare with no rules for hundreds of years, plus 12 years more before Kerensky's exodus. These wars targeted specific factories, targeted to wipe out specific technologies. Add to this everything Comstar does from behind the scenes, from data manipulation, communication loss, capturing and seizing technological assets. Any time a technology is close to wiped out, Comstar would come in, steal it, destroy the evidence and leave just enough of it left so that whatever faction set out to destroy it felt satisfied.

In the end, Comstar had almost enough technology to rival the Clans on its own. ...Almost. An example of this were the ClanBusters, which they pulled out when they decided on the final match that would halt and defeat the Clan invasion.

Xarian, on 02 July 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Sorta hard to judge credibility on an event that's never happened before. I find it perfectly reasonable that they kept their tech.

Actually this kind of thing has happened a lot in Earth history. It's filled with lots of things that can't be explained. Cities, buildings, structures, etc. There are some things made back then that we still can't make today. A certain kind of steel for example. With modern technology we can't actually make a pyramid with the same materials at the same scale... but somehow they did this by hand? Doubtful, as even the Egyptian records mention the use of magical tools, what ultimately sounds like technology, provided to them by the Pharaoh and the gods. Technology that didn't last and got lost, likely when the scam was up.

Happens on Earth all the time. For a recent example in the 1930s when movies were really becoming popular, they had techniques to overlap images, cut out frames, etc. at the level of film. Now everything is digital, and only the oldest photographers have any idea how any of that was done before the digital age. In another hundred years, no one will ever believe we could edit things on film without the use of a computer.

(Edit: 20 not 12. Some grammar.)

Edited by Koniving, 02 July 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[Tylerchu]

Koniving, on 02 July 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

Happens on Earth all the time. For a recent example in the 1930s when movies were really becoming popular, they had techniques to overlap images, cut out frames, etc. at the level of film. Now everything is digital, and only the oldest photographers have any idea how any of that was done before the digital age. In another hundred years, no one will ever believe we could edit things on film without the use of a computer.

And that would be a contender for top 10 of Humanity's Greatest Shames, the losses of brilliant technologies.

[JonahGrimm]

It's kind of a cool thing, the way humans lose tech. The movie industry is a good example - but we can talk about something else that's in process today.

How many of you go camping?

When you go camping, how do you build a fire?

If you're like most people, you bring matches or a lighter - the basics of a campfire are simple, but the actual act of producing a flame comes from a manufactured product that you, yourself can't make. Let's say, for the sake of argument, you use matches.

Now, imagine all matches are produced at one factory in Spokane, WA, USA. All of 'em. Nobody else in the world makes matches, everybody just buys there - it's cheap, and they've got the trade secret on 'em, so it's just the simplest way to do things.

Someone blows up the factory.

Matches are no longer made, anywhere.

How long do you think it would be until there were no matches left?

When matches are gone, how long would it be before the stories about the 'stick you could rub anywhere and get fire' would be just stories?

(The answer to the latter question is 'about a generation'. I was a kid in the 80's - my children have no idea how to 'duck and cover', why I get a little bit sad when I hear Nina's 99 luftbalons, or what the heck a bag phone is.)

Do you think you could just build a match, if you had to?

[Revis Volek]

Dont need to build a match....there is more then one way to skin a cat.

You can use flint and steel to start a fire

A bow and string

Black powder

Even just rubbing sticks together it is possible.

So what the big deal? Just because the match is gone doesn't mean human ingenuity wont persevere....Or we lost all intelligence when the factory burnt up.

[loopala]

Was once told about the rule of 7 steps of tooling before any new idea could be made into reality. Take aitcraft. Oh the idea of flight was there for hundreds of years, but until the internal combution engine with it's high horse power to weight ratio it was just a fantasy. Lose any 2 steps of tooling and aircraft stop working. It maybe hard to comprehend, but when wars are fought unilaterally and totally the ideas may remain but the ability to implement them may not. In the modern times no mater how bad the wars have gotten they were never complete and total like the way the sesection (spelling ??? Typing on phone) wars are discribed. The IS never really lost the tech just the ability to reproduce it. Add ComStar to the mix, with their policy of surpressing information, and the concept of lostech becomes plausible.