372 replies to this topic

[FaleBowt]

Gyrok, on 02 July 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

Actually, playing some 12 mans this evening, ran into a few 12 mans in pub queue, ran into some mixed 3x4 and 7+5 and 6+6 and other kinds of groups, and frankly depending on who you get it can go either way...

We literally dropped our 4x3 12 man against 3x4 mans that were 3 assaults + 1 heavy EACH. We were literally out tonned by 400-500+ tons, and while we put up a good fight, we ended up getting rolled because we did not have the raw firepower to burn down 3 atlases, 4 dire wolves, 2 warhawks and 2 timber wolves and a cataphract 3D...

Sorry, I see nothing to pity for the 2-4 mans, and I run those too...in fact, we postulated earlier that if you encountered a perfect storm of 6x2 man groups, you could literally drop a 4x3 12 man against 12 atlases or dire wolves. Which is a ridiculous proposition in and of itself.

Group queue is fine...

The fact that your 12-man lost isn't the point (especially with why you've stated that you lost). We all know that even the best of teams can be laid low. The fact of the matter is that there is a significant advantage of being able to coordinate with 9-11 other people...increasing the odds of winning significantly in your favor.

I don't mind losing to a 12-man...when I'm with my own unit's 12-man. That comes down to better raw talent/tactics of your unit. Losing due to starting out at a significant disadvantage isn't acceptable.

[Green Mamba]

How are We supposed to have CW if people are even upset over this .Find a Group of people you enjoying playing with and join that faction ...And Bam....Problem solved

[Kekrebos]

Gyrok, on 02 July 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

We did not just lose...we lost 12-5!!! We did not have enough firepower...

We also ran into a SwK 7 man with a 5 man with them and lost...that one had some serious players on the other side though...Twinky Overlord and Antonius Rex and most of the really good SwK players...did not recognize a single name from the 5 man though.

Please, please, please, listen to yourself for a minute. You lost once to a 500 ton difference, which I doubt any amount of teamwork can overcome. You also lost once to a 7 man and 5 man, which is two groups, and if played right I agree could be a rather good fight. What I, and many people in here are arguing against is when you get a lot of 2 and 3 mans vs the 12 man. They need to include a group variance in the match maker. So 1 12 man can only fight against 2 other groups, or 3 at a long matchmaking interval. I'm fine with a 10 and a 2 man. I'd have fun in that 2 man. I don't have fun with I'm one of possibly 6 other 2 mans.

[FaleBowt]

Kyle Wright, on 02 July 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

I'll agree that 2 man's should stuck in the solo queues. But at the same time without 2 man's then there is no point to 2-10 man's drops as you need 2 random to make a 12.

As far as your attempt at a tryhard barb. Maybe you should seek out a group willing to let you play a couple and learn more about the game. The reason why people like yourself complain about units/teams is cause we actually play this game as a military style sim. Using real tactics and real communications. Do you even know what the current meta is? Or are you some schmuck who things anything with a ac20 and JJ'S is meta?

I'm not sorry if this offends you, because I'm sick of giving ground to people that play maybe couple hours a week. This game is " the thinking man's shooter". People for years begged for larger groups to comeback. Well its here, and now they have to live with it. I won't feel sorry stomping people with guys from my unit cause we are equally tired of dealing with weekend warrior type pugs that make pass poor decisions, cry about everything cause they got killed when they were on their own, and just flat out window lickers.

This has nothing to do with the meta. It's all about (as you so appropriately point out) the coordinating capability of 10-12 people over 3 groups of 4 people.

Edited by FaleBowt, 02 July 2014 - 10:24 PM.

[Gyrok]

Rallog, on 02 July 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

Please, please, please, listen to yourself for a minute. You lost once to a 500 ton difference, which I doubt any amount of teamwork can overcome. You also lost once to a 7 man and 5 man, which is two groups, and if played right I agree could be a rather good fight. What I, and many people in here are arguing against is when you get a lot of 2 and 3 mans vs the 12 man. They need to include a group variance in the match maker. So 1 12 man can only fight against 2 other groups, or 3 at a long matchmaking interval. I'm fine with a 10 and a 2 man. I'd have fun in that 2 man. I don't have fun with I'm one of possibly 6 other 2 mans.

But 6x2 man teams could literally end up 12 assaults against a 12 man that has to play by 4x3.

[FaleBowt]

Green Mamba, on 02 July 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

How are We supposed to have CW if people are even upset over this .Find a Group of people you enjoying playing with and join that faction ...And Bam....Problem solved

Unless you don't have 12 people that can regularly play together. You're then stuck with 8 (or whatever the difference is) randos that you have to type to try and coordinate with.

[MischiefSC]

Play like you're in a team. That's it. I've played 4-10 so far and none of it's that bad. We likely had some 2mans along the way; won/lost about 50%. We beat some 10 mans, I don't think we saw a 12man. If we did it wasn't obvious.

What I suspect is going on is the same thing that went on in the old pug queue -

'I could tell it was a sync-drop. They had that sync-dropper sort of look to them. They walked like it. You know how it is'.

Even if they're all the same clan it might well be 3x4 or 2x6 or whatever.

Maybe 2mans will get kept in the pug queue - maybe they're needd to make group queue work. Dropping even in a 2man is an advantage in pugs, not in group, so.... well, honestly? Take the bad with the good.

[Kyle Wright]

Rallog, on 02 July 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

No one should be punished. Right now small groups are seriously punished. There are only two groups happy right now, 10+ and solo. Thats it. This implementation is horrible. I don't see how people are saying its so wonderful can be happy. Its no challenge, or practice, to slap a bunch of 2 mans around in your 12 man. If there are more than 3 groups in the enemy team, and you have a 12 man and you lose more than 2 or 3 mechs you did something wrong. How is that fun for anyone? You should be acknowledging that there is a problem and asking for a solution. Do you want other people to not have fun? Other games have pulled off a very successful matchmaker in a similar game while still providing for groups, small groups, and solo. Why can't they make it good for everyone?

Even when we dropped 7 - man's earlier it didn't matter. Regardless of unit size we practice movements, scouting, positions, focus fire. The public screamed for team/units to stay in 12mans and private lobbies away from the general queues. Yet, you all asked for 2-10man groups for so long. Well welcome to the wolves den where no true team will show any sense of quarter as we have become bitter cause of the antics the general public throws at us.

[FaleBowt]

Gyrok, on 02 July 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

But 6x2 man teams could literally end up 12 assaults against a 12 man that has to play by 4x3.

You CAN'T rely upon that to occur. Not every (or even most) 2-mans run like that. Much less get that kind of group together as consistantly as running against a 10-12 man and there'd still be a disparity in ability to coordinate.

Edited by FaleBowt, 02 July 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[Gyrok]

FaleBowt, on 02 July 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

This has nothing to do with the meta. It's all about (as you so appropriately point out) the coordinating capability of 10-12 people over 3 groups of 4 people.

Negative, it is my understanding that CW will be 12 man drops...much akin to the old 12 man pub queue...however, now, it could be done with groups...though how could you possibly have the same faction on one side without have a full on 12 man? Who would be fighting for what? How would loyalty points apply?

[maXe72]

The ones complaining now about their group getting dropped against 4+ groups
are the ones that stomped the solo players yesterday with a smile in the face.

The current MM system simply approximate the game experience for solo and group players.
Because of the relatively small player base PGI has to compromise and we have to deal with or stop playing.

Your choice.

Edited by maXe72, 02 July 2014 - 10:30 PM.

[Green Mamba]

FaleBowt, on 02 July 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

Unless you don't have 12 people that can regularly play together. You're then stuck with 8 (or whatever the difference is) randos that you have to type to try and coordinate with.

Some Groups may have to Merge ,a lot of this is people Burned out on the Game and Leaving it which was Already happening as player numbers Diminish due to Stagnate Gameplay and Broken Promises, but that is a different thread.

Edited by Green Mamba, 02 July 2014 - 10:30 PM.

[Kekrebos]

Gyrok, on 02 July 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

But 6x2 man teams could literally end up 12 assaults against a 12 man that has to play by 4x3.

Could, yes. Likely no. If there was some way for them to code in an advantage then great, but thats a hard one to bake in to the code, because some game modes/maps a high tonnage team would be at a disadvantage. I'd rather them fix it so its good for EVERYONE. From the weekend warrior to the hard core 16 hour a day player. The game should, and can, be fun for everyone.

[FaleBowt]

Gyrok, on 02 July 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

Negative, it is my understanding that CW will be 12 man drops...much akin to the old 12 man pub queue...however, now, it could be done with groups...though how could you possibly have the same faction on one side without have a full on 12 man? Who would be fighting for what? How would loyalty points apply?

Where is CW coming from? We are talking about the current public que issue. All we want is to be on equal footing for the majority of the matches we play. Even if a few matches still end up a 12-man vs 3x 4-man rofl stomp.

[Cerlin]

So I dropped tonight with up to a 9 man group but mostly a 3 man group. In both cases I had close matches and good wins and losses. The best wins tho were as the 3 man group. We were a light, medium, and heavy. This meant we got fast matches and it was interesting. We brought our own ECM and even beat larger groups (including a 12 man of davion.) How did we do this? I communicated with my team through typing and figured out which premades we had and followed the biggest. Also me and my 2 friends talked some on teamspeak...Lost games? Very few. I am NO competitive player, I just drop builds I think are fun (like tonights Centurion-D 320 XL 2 asrm 6 ERLL and some MG.) I did VERY well in that.

I am loving it. I think people need to just communicate.

Also Solo queue was amazing. It was much closer every round.

Overall. Happy.

[FaleBowt]

Green Mamba, on 02 July 2014 - 10:30 PM, said:

Some Groups may have to Merge ,a lot of this is people Burned out on the Game and Leaving it which was Already happening as player numbers Diminish due to Stagnate Gameplay and Broken Promises, but that is a different thread.

Without the willingness of all parties involved and an easy vehicle to merge the groups onto the same voice server, it's not an immediate corrective action we can depend on. In-game voice comms would diminish the arguements against this new MM system...or at least get me to quiet down a little. I agree with the remainder of you statement.

[kapusta11]

I've been matched agains 12 (10) man groups yesterday, our team lost most of those games but all of them were close, not nearly a stomp.

We didn't even have VoIP.

L2P.

Edited by kapusta11, 02 July 2014 - 10:42 PM.

[Alexandrix]

Kyle Wright, on 02 July 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

I'll agree that 2 man's should stuck in the solo queues. But at the same time without 2 man's then there is no point to 2-10 man's drops as you need 2 random to make a 12.

As far as your attempt at a tryhard barb. Maybe you should seek out a group willing to let you play a couple and learn more about the game. The reason why people like yourself complain about units/teams is cause we actually play this game as a military style sim. Using real tactics and real communications. Do you even know what the current meta is? Or are you some schmuck who things anything with a ac20 and JJ'S is meta?

I'm not sorry if this offends you, because I'm sick of giving ground to people that play maybe couple hours a week. This game is " the thinking man's shooter". People for years begged for larger groups to comeback. Well its here, and now they have to live with it. I won't feel sorry stomping people with guys from my unit cause we are equally tired of dealing with weekend warrior type pugs that make pass poor decisions, cry about everything cause they got killed when they were on their own, and just flat out window lickers.

I have tried it your way actually.I've been in a few units.I've played as the meta humping tryhard.I had no enjoyment running nothing but the "acceptable" load outs,and stomping pugs in 4 mans.

Also,I've faced plenty of the tryhards over the last months in just the 2 man with my wife.Virtually all of the usual forumite names here have been a common staple of my games for the longest while.Bishop,vassago,jaeger,proton,twinky overlord,HHoD,SJ,kong...all of them.I am not new to your tryhard scene.I've been playing it day in and day out.

Playing against the premade 4 mans of those guys was tough enough,but we managed to do fairly well,and just accepted that that's the way things are.

I have no interest in playing your way.I have no interest in joining a huge competitive team,running only what is acceptable to run,and getting on TS with 11 other guys every time i want to just play a few rounds.

If that's how you get your jollies...that's cool...i don't care.have fun your way.I fully support a competitive scene for MWO,and hope you guys have a place to do your thing.But,don't pile me in with your large competitive groups just because I want to play a few games here and there with one other person.I am not here to be fodder or target practice for you.

If that's how PGI wants things to be,then fine,I have PLENTY of other games to spend my free time on.no big deal.

Edited by Alexandrix, 02 July 2014 - 10:46 PM.

[FaleBowt]

Cerlin, on 02 July 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

So I dropped tonight with up to a 9 man group but mostly a 3 man group. In both cases I had close matches and good wins and losses. The best wins tho were as the 3 man group. We were a light, medium, and heavy. This meant we got fast matches and it was interesting. We brought our own ECM and even beat larger groups (including a 12 man of davion.) How did we do this? I communicated with my team through typing and figured out which premades we had and followed the biggest. Also me and my 2 friends talked some on teamspeak...Lost games? Very few. I am NO competitive player, I just drop builds I think are fun (like tonights Centurion-D 320 XL 2 asrm 6 ERLL and some MG.) I did VERY well in that.

I am loving it. I think people need to just communicate.

Also Solo queue was amazing. It was much closer every round.

Overall. Happy.

I like the limitations on solo ques (as close to 3x4 as possible and no synch drops).

In group que, the fact that you were able to win is a given...there will be groups that can make the fight work against a more coordinated force. It's not the same to have to type throughout the match as it would be to say it over TS (or whatever) and not everyone is going to catch (or have the time to read...as they're fighting) what was typed versus being able to process what someone said is a similar situation.

Edited by FaleBowt, 02 July 2014 - 10:45 PM.

[Davic Kerensky]

Not sure what is being said .. there are the 'Oh noes .. a premade 10-12 team against 1 4 man and PUGs' ... well hate to burst this bubble, but I was in a four man with PUG's that dropped against a 10 man pre-made .. we shared banter and laughed as the premade was brought to it's knee's. It was an excellent round of combat fun was had by all, it's not whether they are a pre-made that is the issue .. it's that maybe you are not as good a pilot as you thought you was. Been on the recieving end of a 12-3 battering, but also on the giving end of a 12-2 slapfest .. for the first time playing this I love it's direction the damage add has increased the combat time as now Mech pilots need to think more.

So should this patch be hated ? .. for me 'No', because it's made me work that much harder at being a better pilot.