46 replies to this topic

[bluepiglet]

You draw the conclusion yourself...

[Tombstoner]

Clan tech requires skill to get the most bang per ton for lasers. ERPPC is working as intended. I dont see an issue.

[Scurry]

Congratulations for providing us with information everyone already knows with zero addition to the discussion.

Not to mention your table is incomplete, and "ammo/ton" should be labeled "duration".

Talk about cherry-picking. If you're going to do a weapons comparison, put in all of them. As it is, you don't even have all of the energy weapons. What about missile weapons and their stream-fire? Ballistics and their stream-fire?

Things also become a lot less clear-cut when you consider the non-ER versions of the LL and PPC, given their greater heat efficiency.

Edited by Scurry, 03 July 2014 - 03:56 AM.

[Kitane]

Tombstoner, on 03 July 2014 - 03:46 AM, said:

Clan tech requires skill to get the most bang per ton for lasers. ERPPC is working as intended. I dont see an issue.

Man, I wish I had some of that skill™ that could nearly double my range, while delivering equal amount of damage over equal amount of time with a potential for extra damage if kept on target for few tenths of second longer.

[bluepiglet]

Scurry, on 03 July 2014 - 03:52 AM, said:

Congratulations for providing us with information everyone already knows with zero addition to the discussion.

Not to mention your table is incomplete, and "ammo/ton" should be labeled "duration".

Talk about cherry-picking. If you're going to do a weapons comparison, put in all of them. As it is, you don't even have all of the energy weapons. What about missile weapons and their stream-fire? Ballistics and their stream-fire?

You mean the "stream-fire" which shakes the screen of the targeted player so hard and constantly, making him totally unable to respond?

And since you asked for the ballistic weapons.

Edited by bluepiglet, 03 July 2014 - 03:59 AM.

[Scurry]

bluepiglet, on 03 July 2014 - 03:58 AM, said:

You mean the "stream-fire" which shakes the screen of the targeted player so hard and constantly, making him totally unable to respond?

Good, at least it fits the thread title now.

And I mean the stream-fire that results in a significant damage spread, and possibility of whiffing most of the damage (ballistics) and chance to waste half your volley losing a lock, and being impressively vulnerable to AMS (missiles).

Oh, and for anyone looking at the table - ammo/ton in this case is slightly misleading. Not that anyone's really looking at that section, though.

Edited by Scurry, 03 July 2014 - 04:06 AM.

[bluepiglet]

Scurry, on 03 July 2014 - 04:05 AM, said:

Good, at least it fits the thread title now.

And I mean the stream-fire that results in a significant damage spread, and possibility of whiffing most of the damage (ballistics) and chance to waste half your volley losing a lock, and being impressively vulnerable to AMS (missiles).

Oh, and for anyone looking at the table - ammo/ton in this case is slightly misleading. Not that anyone's really looking at that section, though.

If you are that obsessed with that mistake I made maybe you can spend 2 minutes on Excel and make a chart yourself. Unless it's actually the topic makes you uncomfortable so you have to try hard to derail this thread.

Since you brought up the missiles and I have some time to spare, here you have it.

[Zordicron]

Now make your table show how fixed engines, fixed heat sinks, non- changeable endo and ferro, fixed jump jets,even fixed weapons sometimes adds up to mechs with either limited tonnage, or crit space, or sometimes both.

Anyone with half a brain will understand that looking at clan vs IS is not as simple as comparing a weapon. Paul and crew did a solid job IMO making clan mechs balanced as a package and not as some micro managed per weapon vs IS load of crap.

I can make more powerful, more heat efficient loadouts on my Dragon then i can on my Summoner for example, despite clan tech and the extra 10 tons, because you simply run out of tonnage trying to use heay weapons, and crit space or hardpoints using lighter ones. Speed is similar, summoner gets JJ and IMO, better survivability, but we are talking a 60 ton IS mech vs one of the most feared clan heavy mechs and they really could trade blows.

All the threads whining about clan stuff are being looked at as little peices and not the whole.

[bluepiglet]

Eldagore, on 03 July 2014 - 04:25 AM, said:

Now make your table show how fixed engines, fixed heat sinks, non- changeable endo and ferro, fixed jump jets,even fixed weapons sometimes adds up to mechs with either limited tonnage, or crit space, or sometimes both.

Anyone with half a brain will understand that looking at clan vs IS is not as simple as comparing a weapon. Paul and crew did a solid job IMO making clan mechs balanced as a package and not as some micro managed per weapon vs IS load of crap.

I can make more powerful, more heat efficient loadouts on my Dragon then i can on my Summoner for example, despite clan tech and the extra 10 tons, because you simply run out of tonnage trying to use heay weapons, and crit space or hardpoints using lighter ones. Speed is similar, summoner gets JJ and IMO, better survivability, but we are talking a 60 ton IS mech vs one of the most feared clan heavy mechs and they really could trade blows.

All the threads whining about clan stuff are being looked at as little peices and not the whole.

Start your own thread if you want to discuss engines or anything else.

[Livewyr]

I draw the conclusion that you are only looking at half of the picture, in order to highlight your intended point.

Next, do a table on the different clan mechs.

Which engines they can install
How many heatsinks they can have in their engine- or *not* have in their engine.
In some cases, how many Jumpjets they can install, or uninstall..

And then compare the options to IS mechs in a table.

[Mystere]

More one-dimensional thinking, or a hidden agenda, that is all.

[Mercules]

bluepiglet, on 03 July 2014 - 04:27 AM, said:

Start your own thread if you want to discuss engines or anything else.

Yeah.... if you want to talk about actual balance and not just cherry pick data that proves his agenda on an open forum GTFO.

[Livewyr]

If I were petty, and willing to waste everyone's time,including my own, I would make a thread about the customization options between the Clan chassis and the IS chassis.

I would call it: "Who Really has has the Omnimechs?"

Fortunately for you all, and myself, I am not so inclined.

[Bobzilla]

If someone is easily hit by Clan weapons, for their extended duration, yeah, Clan tech is very OP in their experience, no denying that.

The problem is some people are able to easily deny/mitigate that damage so Clan tech isn't OP to them. It is much like how LRMs are viewed, some people who can't avoid them think they are OP, those that can, think they are useless.

The only solution to have weapons balanced on all skill levels/playstyles is some sort of progression but this game doesn't have that.

What would be useful, instead of just posting stats of things, is post a thread on "how to deal with 'X' as a new player". Or if you are having a problem with something, ask "How do I deal with 'X'?"

[bluepiglet]

Mercules, on 03 July 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

Yeah.... if you want to talk about actual balance and not just cherry pick data that proves his agenda on an open forum GTFO.

Cherry pick? I have listed every single weapon type that Clan and IP share, except for the Artemis whose effect is identical to both factions. Why didn't you read the title before clicking it, it states clears this thread is about weapon statistics. Then if you have nothing related to it to say here, maybe STFU is the better option for you?

Edited by bluepiglet, 03 July 2014 - 04:48 AM.

[Scurry]

bluepiglet, on 03 July 2014 - 04:20 AM, said:

If you are that obsessed with that mistake I made maybe you can spend 2 minutes on Excel and make a chart yourself. Unless it's actually the topic makes you uncomfortable so you have to try hard to derail this thread.

Since you brought up the missiles and I have some time to spare, here you have it.

Good, now they're all there.

Have fun.

[Livewyr]

Now to troll myself and the more level-headed group:

I put 2xERLL and 4xERML with a Mk6 TC on my SCR... and I have been assassinating people at 1100 meters, untouched.

Clan mechs broken!

bluepiglet, on 03 July 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

Cherry pick? I have listed every single weapon type that Clan and IP share, except for the Artemis whose effect is identical to both factions. Why didn't you read the title before clicking it, it states clears this thread is about weapon statistics. Then if you have nothing related to it to say here, maybe STFU is the better option for you?

The very thread is cherry picking..

(Imagine if I posted my Chassis comparison, where IS can change literally everything about their mech except hardpoints, and left it by itself. Someone who did not know about clan weapon data would think that IS mechs are totally imbalanced.)

[Mercules]

bluepiglet, on 03 July 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

Cherry pick? I have listed every single weapon type that Clan and IP share, except for the Artemis whose effect is identical to both factions. Why didn't you read the title before clicking it, it states clears this thread is about weapon statistics. Then if you have nothing related to it to say here, maybe STFU is the better option for you?

Yes, Cherry Pick. Your thread has offered nothing that wasn't already available to us with Smurfy. Everyone who can count knows 4 > 3 and such. Yes, Clan weapons are better than IS weapons. DUH!

I guess we are then assuming you wish to use that comparison to make some sort of statement. What would that be?

[bluepiglet]

Mercules, on 03 July 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Yes, Cherry Pick. Your thread has offered nothing that wasn't already available to us with Smurfy. Everyone who can count knows 4 > 3 and such. Yes, Clan weapons are better than IS weapons. DUH!

I guess we are then assuming you wish to use that comparison to make some sort of statement. What would that be?

I did use data from Smurfy's site. And I added in DPS/weight damage/heat and something other things to make it easier to make comparison. As for the statement, I don't have any to make. Like the topic says, it's comparison and discussion. It's up to every individual to draw their own conclusion. But somehow whatever came out of the tables made some members quite uncomfortable and they have been trying to derail the thread since.

Edited by bluepiglet, 03 July 2014 - 05:08 AM.

[Livewyr]

bluepiglet, on 03 July 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

I did use data from Smurfy's site. And I added in DPS/weight damage/heat and something other things to make it easier to make comparison. As for the statement, I don't have any to make. Like the topic says, it's comparison and discussion. It's up to every individual to draw their own conclusion. But somehow whatever came out of the tables made some members quite uncomfortable and they have been trying to derail the thread since.

You have yet to respond to any of my posts..

Is it because they are eerily accurate? Maybe because they would cast a different light on your "direct comparison" choice?