73 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 03 July 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

It's a multiplayer game.
The difficulty is defined by the quality of your opponent.

yes and no

It's also defined by how the game implements those players into the universe. There are tons of things that can be done to increase the technical side of the game to satiate those "uber" geeks who love the intricacies of detailed mechanics without having to force players who just want stompy pew pew pew fun out of their element.

[Prezimonto]

Some of my favorite games when I was young were Xwing/Tie Fighter/Wingcommander series. I would argue they're more complex in terms of gameplay than this game, particularly the fine balance of energy levels to push lasers vs. engine vs. shield. However, there's a large amount of depth in this game outside of gameplay that they did not have.

I actually would LOVE if mechs had to balance energy output between weapons and engine and sensors (or whatever ) on the fly. It would make the gameplay deeper, and if it had ties back to the mechlab, better yet.

[ZealotTheFallen]

This game was made for a certain 10 year old who could not play it period. 3pv was for a certain 10 year that could not drive a mech. It has been made this way for the 10 year olds to get money from their parents. A dev even said it in a post, that a certain 10 year old was having trouble.

Edited by ZealotTheFallen, 03 July 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[Odins Fist]

Sandpit, on 03 July 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

No sir, it was billed as a simulator way back in CB. That's EXACTLY why there was so much fuss about 3pv

Then in that Open Beta Trailer I posted, PGI went with the description "A thinking person's shooter".

MWO has "NEVER" been a simulator, I have played plenty of simulators (flight/Submarine), and MWO is a First Person Shooter, that later threw in 3PV during development.

Silent Hunter 3 and Sturmovik-1946 where way, way, way more involved then MWO can even come close to being in terms of managemment.

Try piloting a Me-163 Komet with only 8 minutes of fuel, scoring (4) B-17 kills, and gliding back to base only to explode shortly after touch down for landing, or how about manually calculating the angle on bow input of a torpedo.

MWO would NOT survive if it were a true simulator, it would need single player campaign.
The current player base would be so much smaller if MWO were a true simulator, even though it wouldn't be as much involved as the simulators I just described.

MWO hasn't been a simulator from DAY ONE, if they added things that took additional time for the pilot to deal with BEYOND what we have now, matches would be longer, kids with their dad's credit card wouldn't play, and MWO would likely already be done by now, as far as multiplayer.

Community Warfare is about the only thing that will add ANY sort of reason for long term player retention in very large numbers, and we don't even have that yet.

CONCLUSION: MWO is NOT a simulator, and it was never meant to be. (if you compare it to other simulator games)

So what is the standard that we measure MWO against..??
Where is the bar set..??
The old Table Top BattleTech game..??

Tell me again how well it (MWO) has translated over from BattleTech , I think they have done almost the best they can WITHOUT community warfare and REAL official leagues.

MechWarrior Online is a First Person Shooter.

Edited by Odins Fist, 03 July 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[NoClass]

Odins Fist, on 03 July 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Then in that Open Beta Trailer I posted, PGI went with the description "A thinking person's shooter".

MWO has "NEVER" been a simulator, I have played plenty of simulators (flight/Submarine), and MWO is a First Person Shooter, that later threw in 3PV during development.

Silent Hunter 3 and Sturmovik-1946 where way, way, way more involved then MWO can even come close to being in terms of managemment.

Try piloting a Me-163 Komet with only 8 minutes of fuel, scoring (4) B-17 kills, and gliding back to base only to explode shortly after touch down for landing, or how about manually calculating the angle on bow input of a torpedo.

MWO would NOT survive if it were a true simulator, it would need single player campaign.
The current player base would be so much smaller if MWO were a true simulator, even though it wouldn't be as much involved as the simulators I just described.

MWO hasn't been a simulator from DAY ONE, if they added things that took additional time for the pilot to deal with BEYOND what we have now, matches would be longer, kids with their dad's credit card wouldn't play, and MWO would likely already be done by now, as far as multiplayer.

Community Warfare is about the only thing that will add ANY sort of reason for long term player retention in very large numbers, and we don't even have that yet.

CONCLUSION: MWO is NOT a simulator, and it was never meant to be. (if you compare it to other simulator games)

So what is the standard that we measure MWO against..??
Where is the bar set..??
The old Table Top BattleTech game..??

Tell me again how well it has transalted over, I think they have done almost the best they can WITHOUT community warfare and REAL official leagues.

MechWarrior Online is a First Person Shooter.

He gets it.

Edited by VigilanceHawkwind, 03 July 2014 - 01:18 PM.

[Odins Fist]

VigilanceHawkwind, on 03 July 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

He gets it.

Thanks, I have been saying the same thing about MWO before 3PV was implemented.
(without the 3PV reference)

Edited by Odins Fist, 03 July 2014 - 01:21 PM.

[Sandpit]

Odins Fist, on 03 July 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Then in that Open Beta Trailer I posted, PGI went with the description "A thinking person's shooter".

MWO has "NEVER" been a simulator, I have played plenty of simulators (flight/Submarine), and MWO is a First Person Shooter, that later threw in 3PV during development.

Silent Hunter 3 and Sturmovik-1946 where way, way, way more involved then MWO can even come close to being in terms of managemment.

Try piloting a Me-163 Komet with only 8 minutes of fuel, scoring (4) B-17 kills, and gliding back to base only to explode shortly after touch down for landing, or how about manually calculating the angle on bow input of a torpedo.

MWO would NOT survive if it were a true simulator, it would need single player campaign.
The current player base would be so much smaller if MWO were a true simulator, even though it wouldn't be as much involved as the simulators I just described.

MWO hasn't been a simulator from DAY ONE, if they added things that took additional time for the pilot to deal with BEYOND what we have now, matches would be longer, kids with their dad's credit card wouldn't play, and MWO would likely already be done by now, as far as multiplayer.

Community Warfare is about the only thing that will add ANY sort of reason for long term player retention in very large numbers, and we don't even have that yet.

CONCLUSION: MWO is NOT a simulator, and it was never meant to be. (if you compare it to other simulator games)

So what is the standard that we measure MWO against..??
Where is the bar set..??
The old Table Top BattleTech game..??

Tell me again how well it (MWO) has translated over from BattleTech , I think they have done almost the best they can WITHOUT community warfare and REAL official leagues.

MechWarrior Online is a First Person Shooter.

no sir,

devs stated and used teh word "simulator" more than once "in the old days" whether anyone chooses to acknowledge that doesn't change the fact that it was billed that way for a period of time.

I am not arguing whether MWO is NOW a sim or not. I'm just pointing out that it WAS billed as a sim by the devs a few times. Now "sim" is somewhat subjective as whether you agree with it or not, others feel the game is a sim now, was a sim at one point, etc.

I'm not saying it is or is not a sim, again, i'm just pointing out that it was billed that way at one point and other opinions vary on whether or not it is or ever was a sim.

No difference in the arguments over using stuff like "MMO" and such. Opinions vary but I can say without a doubt that PGI did, in fact, say simulator several times.

[Odins Fist]

Sandpit, on 03 July 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

no sir,

devs stated and used teh word "simulator" more than once "in the old days" whether anyone chooses to acknowledge that doesn't change the fact that it was billed that way for a period of time.

I am not arguing whether MWO is NOW a sim or not.

And the Date should be revised to November 2012, or a little earlier, when the OFFICIAL MWO Open Beta Trailer was up and running.

Hey man, i'm NOT arguing whether or not the DEVs have misguidedly used the word "simulator" before or since November 2012.

I'm saying it (MWO) was "ACKNOWLEDGED" by PGI as "A thinking person's shooter" in November 2012, as advertised by THEM specifically in November 2012.

I think I have proven that fact, without any doubt. It's a timestamp, and a well known advert in the MWO community of players that were here for closed and open beta.

Edited by Odins Fist, 03 July 2014 - 02:07 PM.

[Sandpit]

Odins Fist, on 03 July 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

And the Date should be revised to November 2012, or a little earlier, when the OFFICIAL MWO Open Beta Trailer was up and running.

Hey man, i'm NOT arguing whether or not the DEVs have misguidedly used the word "simulator" before or since November 2012.

I'm saying it (MWO) was "ACKNOWLEDGED" by PGI as "A think person's shooter" in November 2012, as advertised by THEM specifically in November 2012.

I think I have proven that fact, without any doubt. It's a timestamp, and a well known advert in the MWO community of players that were here for closed and open beta.

I'm just pointing out that the devs themselves tossed out the word simulator to many customer several times. Whether or not you feel the game is or ever was a sim is a separate issue. I'm just pointing out that there are customers out there that were expecting more a sim environment because of PGI themselves leading them to believe that which is exactly what caused such an uproar over 3PV

I didn't come into the community until after CB had started. That means there's no way I could have "heard" it was a sim other than here. Again, just pointing out that PGI did, in fact, bill this as a sim to some. Both overtly and covertly.

I'm not arguing against thinking man's shooter either (although I think most of the "thinking man's shooter"'s crowd has a very different opinion from PGI on what actually constitutes a definition for said term)

[Odins Fist]

Sandpit, on 03 July 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

I'm just pointing out that the devs themselves tossed out the word simulator to many customer several times. Whether or not you feel the game is or ever was a sim is a separate issue.

I have no argument against the fact that they have used the word "simulator" before or after November 2012 to describe MWO, BUT the FACT that they produced a Video Advert "endorsing" that it is "A thinking person's shooter" should remove ALL doubt whether MWO is a First Person Shooter or not.

MWO is NOT a simulator, it may be what some may consider a cross between the two, but that still does not really qualify it as a "simulator", if any other accepted simulator is used to compare (which it does not compare to).

As far as being a seperate issue, the name of the THREAD is "Too Arcadey?", and to that end my posts are completely relevant to the discussion, as to whether or not MWO is a simulator or something else.

MWO is a First Person Shooter, not a simulator, "IF" other simulators OR original Table Top BattleTech is used to make the comparison...

And as we have no other way to compare, to set the bar, then the conclusion should be quite obvious, and relevant to the discussion.

I'm not trying to argue with you.. Just backing up my position with facts.

Edited by Odins Fist, 03 July 2014 - 02:33 PM.

[pwnface]

This entire argument about whether this game is a simulator or first-person shooter is moronic. Who cares what the game is labelled as, are you having fun playing it or not? If you aren't, think of suggestions that can help improve the game. If you are, then shut up and buy some more mechs.

[Lightfoot]

It's better with a joystick. I am not sure you can interpret the mech movements into being a giant robot with a mouse. You can with a joystick, it's natural.

[Odins Fist]

pwnface, on 03 July 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

This entire argument about whether this game is a simulator or first-person shooter is moronic.

Opinions are like A-holes... Especially when "FACTS" are thrown out there to explain it.

MWO is a "First Person Shooter".. The OP started the Thread and discussion, if you don't like it, then move along to another Thread/Topic that you feel is more your speed Chief.

[Karamarka]

Lightfoot, on 03 July 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

It's better with a joystick. I am not sure you can interpret the mech movements into being a giant robot with a mouse. You can with a joystick, it's natural.

More fun, but harder and not wise.