467 replies to this topic

[maniacos]

TheFlannelBeard, on 04 July 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

What's this? Another light player complaining? Because the actually majority player base thinks lights are overpowered hard to hit weasels who complain and ***** about not being invincible which they nearly are already?

#mysides

That's why 70% are using heavy and up because lights are overpowered.
Sense
You make none.

[maniacos]

drunkblackstar, on 04 July 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

1) A lot of people are playing clans now, and clan's lights are rubbish, so they don't take them.

2) Personally I like lights very much, but now if I don't make 600-700 + dmg my team usually loses, so I take mediums, heavies and assaults.

3) I think 1-3 lights in the team is OK, and most of the time there are at least 1 or 2.

1) I see pretty alot Kitfox and Adder, taken in account most are mastering Timbers atm. While I don't like clan lights too (that's why I have none, as a light pilot I don't want to pay money for a light that moves like a medium but has the paper armor of a light), a lot seem to run them still.
2) You don't need 500 DMG to help your team, you might need that for rewards but a good Jenner or Spider can jump from one dogfight to the next one helping parts of the team finishing the enemies. Of course most of the kills in a light are stolen kills, but I think that's ok for the low DMG they do.
3) You can not wolfpack with 1-2 lights, need 3 or better 4.

[ThermidorFallen]

Ursh, on 04 July 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

Remember Chromehounds?

If you wanted the magic radar that allowed you to see mechs far in the distance without a visual, you had to take over radar stations. The best way to do that was in a very fast mech.

I'm thinking of stealing Chromehounds, making my own version so From can't sue me, no-one minds if the texture are made in MS Paint right? Seriously miss CH, would love to get a sequel on PC.

Weirdly whenever I've been on, the numbers of Light/Meds haven't been too bad, though still an obvious trend towards heavies and assaults. I'm putting it down to my hour ahead European pals who, finishing up for the night, are stone drunk and in trying to select one of the hundreds of Mechs spinning round them in circles, happen to land on light and meds.

Edited by ThermidorFallen, 05 July 2014 - 02:41 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

ThermidorFallen, on 05 July 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

I'm thinking of stealing Chromehounds, making my own version so From can't sue me, no-one minds if the texture are made in MS Paint right? Seriously miss CH, would love to get a sequel on PC.

M.A.V. already did that...

[ThermidorFallen]

Strum Wealh, on 05 July 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

M.A.V. already did that...

Hmmmm, that's quite tempting to buy into, his mastery of Paint far surpasses my own. My plan to include House Davion and the Hammerhands will be left behind if I do that though... Thanks for the link.

Edited by ThermidorFallen, 05 July 2014 - 03:39 AM.

[Chemie]

Bryan Ekman, on 04 July 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

To reiterate.. this is not representative of light usage, only the current number of players looking for a match with lights.

Instead or waving your hand, why not provide the data? What is the % of lights players take into the game?

I think your excuse does not fully hold up as the % in the queue still reflects the ratio of what is coming in and out. We know the MM will spawn off games outside 4x3 so will allow all those H/.A to cycle out too. There is no way the MM is effectively getting all the lights it needs for all games all the time and somehow leaving H/A sitting there waiting for a game to end so more lights are available.

Edited by Chemie, 05 July 2014 - 04:09 AM.

[stjobe]

Bryan Ekman, on 04 July 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

This is our shot term strategy, re-balancing rewards.

Short-term? Let me remind you Bryan, of something you said just about exactly a year ago (June 28th, 2013):

Ask the devs 41: Answered said:

stjobe: What are your plans for getting more lights and mediums onto the field?
The current game is absolutely dominated by heavies and assaults, to the point where I'm often the lightest thing on the field - both teams included - when I drop in a Blackjack. I'd love to hear your take on this, and your plans on rectifying the situation (if you have any).

If I may make a suggestion as well as pose a question: I suggest you take a look at your reward structure; it's almost completely focussed on what heavies and assaults are good at, and almost completely neglects to reward what lights and mediums are good at - and the rewards we do have for things like spotting and capping are a pittance compared to what you get for dealing damage and killing.

A: You pretty much nailed it on the head. Rewards, along with expanded roles for lights and mediums, along with some limitations on drop weights, will all contribute to a more diversified battlefield.

Is a year "short-time" for you?

It's not like this roughly 10% lights is a new thing; it's been the same for a long time now (basically since closed beta).

So when are you going to get around to doing the things you keep talking about?

Edited by stjobe, 05 July 2014 - 04:16 AM.

[Rampancy]

Chemie, on 05 July 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

Instead or waving your hand, why not provide the data? What is the % of lights players take into the game?

I think your excuse does not fully hold up as the % in the queue still reflects the ratio of what is coming in and out. We know the MM will spawn off games outside 4x3 so will allow all those H/.A to cycle out too. There is no way the MM is effectively getting all the lights it needs for all games all the time and somehow leaving H/A sitting there waiting for a game to end so more lights are available.

...It's not an "excuse." It's the way the system displays.

And as long as wait times are reasonable, the MM doesn't have to bend 4x3 significantly or at all. Even when lights are at ~16% of the queue, I typically haven't waited more than 30 seconds to land a match.

Say an average game is 10 minutes, and the average wait time for a heavy is 2 minutes-- that's still 83% of the "active" heavy population that is in a game at any given point. Even though 40% is displayed for the relative queue levels, most heavies will still get popped into a game on a reasonable timeframe.

[Chemie]

RampancyTW, on 05 July 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

...It's not an "excuse." It's the way the system displays.

And as long as wait times are reasonable, the MM doesn't have to bend 4x3 significantly or at all. Even when lights are at ~16% of the queue, I typically haven't waited more than 30 seconds to land a match.

Say an average game is 10 minutes, and the average wait time for a heavy is 2 minutes-- that's still 83% of the "active" heavy population that is in a game at any given point. Even though 40% is displayed for the relative queue levels, most heavies will still get popped into a game on a reasonable timeframe.

You are missing the point just like Bryan. The concern is not that the queue is empty. The underlying concern is that there is no reason to take a light; you get less CB, less XP, can get one-shot by a high pin-point alpha, and have no role on the battlefield. Now you take a larger % of total available armor damage to your legs too. The point was more about lights being useless and using the queue data to support it.

[Rampancy]

Chemie, on 05 July 2014 - 04:42 AM, said:

You are missing the point just like Bryan. The concern is not that the queue is empty. The underlying concern is that there is no reason to take a light; you get less CB, less XP, can get one-shot by a high pin-point alpha, and have no role on the battlefield. Now you take a larger % of total available armor damage to your legs too. The point was more about lights being useless and using the queue data to support it.

Plenty of reason to take a light. Mobility, small profile while still packing serious firepower. ECM-capable chassis. Good platform to mount NARC and take along UAV, which will typically net you decent spotting bonuses.

[DaZur]

JigglyMoobs, on 04 July 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

You're dying because you're trying to get the light to do what it's never supposed to do, namely, take on fully healthy heavy mechs while they are massed.

What light mech pilots are supposed to do is to observe and report on enemy dispositions, target missiles, harass isolated flankers, snipers and LRM boats, get cap points in conquest, and finish off stripped enemy mechs after heavier mechs use their greater firepower to put in the initial damage.

I don't have enough "A" in my Amen for you...

Sadly, folks will counter with some antidote example of "this one guy in a light" and cling to the notion that because once one guy killed 10 mechs with his light they are = / = heavies and assualts.

I'm a holy terror in my QKD-5K... But the fact still remains Quickdraws are a marginal mech not intended to spearhead an engagement.

[Mainhunter]

I say, there aint less lights, but more guys who level claner stuff.

[Alistair Winter]

Mainhunter, on 05 July 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

I say, there aint less lights, but more guys who level claner stuff.

Actually, with the exception of the 'a la carte option', most clan packages have more light and medium mechs than heavy and assault mechs. If all mechs were equally powerful, you'd think this should precipitate an increase of light mechs.

[Mainhunter]

Alistair Winter, on 05 July 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

Actually, with the exception of the 'a la carte option', most clan packages have more light and medium mechs than heavy and assault mechs. If all mechs were equally powerful, you'd think this should precipitate an increase of light mechs.

But they use first the big Mechs. I don't need to tell, you see it everyday on the servers. Before the last patch, I saw 4-men Mad Cat drops en mass. Also allot Dire Wolfe's.

Who said all Mechs are equal strong?

[Rebas Kradd]

One theory I have on why they aren't incentivizing lights, is that by doing so, they would also be increasing the amount of ECM on the field. And we all know how many whiners there are about ECM. Small maps mean that everybody in the match is within the LRM bubble, so ECM becomes necessary, and now it's something that's affecting the weight classes' proportional popularity.

Mechs aren't supposed to be equally strong. They're just supposed to be equally valuable. They can't be on small maps, and I'm pretty sure that even when they are, there's not a lot of publicity about the bonuses available.

Of course, I don't have a theory on why PGI refuses to enter into discussion about incentivization. I'm glad to see Bryan promising a rebalancing, though.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 05 July 2014 - 10:11 AM.

[Chemie]

Ah. now here is data that Bryan could have posted that does indeed prove there are fewer lights

http://mwomercs.com/...uss-on-twitter/

[MischiefSC]

There are always things I'd like to see improved.

At the moment though I have absolutely no rational or reasonable complaint about the rate of updates, new content or fixes. Clan weapon balance, SRM fix, the freaking matchmaker, fall damage, HSR is the tightest it's ever been by a HUGE margin... all of it very, very good stuff.

I feel like I've gotten enough good stuff, consistently every single update for months now, to trust in some timelines and 'it's being fixed' responses. I'm good with that. Not everyone is I know, but I don't feel like nothing is happening that's for sure. The game has improved in the last 6 months for me more than it improved in the prior 18 in a lot of ways.

Communication is lightyears better as well. Professional, consistent, useful and steady.

I'm hoping to see some good stuff for lights soon. If not, I'm reasonably confident that it'll be something else I consider worthwhile.

[Mizore]

Just saw 3% lights >.<

But masses of heavies and assaults...

Edited by Mizore, 06 July 2014 - 01:33 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

xXBagheeraXx, on 04 July 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

What they need to do is make information gathering more benefitial and profitable...and give light mechs bonuses for doing such.

Again, i hate to use "that other game" as an example but light tanks in world of tanks can be absolutely crushing. one well positioned light mech, lighting up the enemy team and not getting the crap kicked out of him in return can ruin an entire team before the game even starts. ive seen one tank parked in a bush get nearly all the enemy teams top tanks killed in a matter of seconds. If light mechs perhaps got some bonus sensor quirks added to them, or got lots of cbills for spotting, and BONUS cbills and xp for enemies taking damage while they were spotted, you would perhaps see light mechs take the information warfare thing a little more seriously.

Raven 3Ls wouldnt run the selfish Er large laser Ecm "B!tch build" as i call it and sit in a corner all game henpecking with er large lasers. I belive that mech comes stock with ecm and beagle so the mech can get out front, spot further than the opponents can pick them up on sensors due to ecm, and tag/narc things for allied missile boats to ruin people with.

Perhaps we could also make tag invisible unless you turned on heat vision or night vision, so ninja spotters could do their deadly work without being seen.

and REWARD players for good spotting. if they spot a crapton of lrm damage they should be nearly as rewarded as the missileboats themselves who racked up 1k damage thanks to that ecm 3L spotter. Non ecm lights can stick to the usual anti-light patrol/ flanking harrasing/ support role.

Add in "legging" bonuses. If you are in a light mech, and leg a big fat heavy and assault, you get bonus credits for destroying his leg compnent and any damage he takes immediately after that. Light mechs will LITERALLY be rewarded for being ankle biters. HELL that could even be an ACHIEVEMENT.

Give lights bigger cbill bonuses for damage inflicted, and components destroyed/enemies killed. Lights dont pack a lot of firepower, so getting 400 damage in a freaking commando should be rewarded just as well as scoring 1k+ in my dire wolf.

Great ideas in that post.+1

oldradagast, on 04 July 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

If what a mech is "supposed to do" is basically no fun at all - running around and reporting on enemy positions - than it is no shock that people aren't interested in playing them.

Additionally, scouting and such isn't even rewarded in the game! I guess you could argue that the indirect reward is a higher chance of victory, but that's skating on thin ice, and doesn't mean the player has fun typing in the chat box as his main contribution for the match.

People play games like this to shoot stuff and have brawls, not to run around while trying to type meaningful info in a box or stand in squares watching a flickering readout slowly change color. That's why, IMHO, lights need more useful roles to PLAY, not just roles that involve a minimal amount of play or fun.

That speaks volumes for the playerbase if all they find fun is to "shootzorz and getz killz." When I first started playing I wanted to play lights to do exactly what you said, run around and report enemy positions. I'm the sort of player that liked to nip about, sit back, observe and "shape" the battlefield.

They should be the swiss army knives of the game. I think they should be the only ones able to carry arty/airstrikes/UAV etc. Give them something that no other mech can have. Make them targeting a mech for friendlies matter more.

People should not be rewarded for being derpers in huge gun platforms.Only concerned about their damage numbers and killcount.

[MonkeyCheese]

kamiko kross, on 06 July 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

That speaks volumes for the playerbase if all they find fun is to "shootzorz and getz killz." When I first started playing I wanted to play lights to do exactly what you said, run around and report enemy positions. I'm the sort of player that liked to nip about, sit back, observe and "shape" the battlefield.

They should be the swiss army knives of the game. I think they should be the only ones able to carry arty/airstrikes/UAV etc. Give them something that no other mech can have. Make them targeting a mech for friendlies matter more.

People should not be rewarded for being derpers in huge gun platforms.Only concerned about their damage numbers and killcount.

In other online games in the past be it fps or mmorpgs I have always played the medic role I guess that is why I love my dual ams + tag 3m locust and my 3ams+ecm kitfox. Haven't really gotten into the narc but that is because I usually solo drop and a tag is less resources.

If only we had more ways to actively play the game other than the "boat the weapon" killers and the "scout/tag/narc/ecm" support mechs. Yet as it has already been discussed at length the killer style gameplay is always the more profitable way to play.