106 replies to this topic

[Dalton Dakota]

Greetings. New to this MMO, but not to BattleTech. I was looking through the current 'Mech list for heavies and did not see one of my favorites, the Grasshopper. Does anyone know if the devs have plans to put this venerable 'Mech into the game?

[Spleenslitta]

They haven't mentioned it as far as i remember.

I looked it over at Sarna. Seems it only has 2 viable variants. The 5H and 5N. Sorry.
MWO mechs must have at least 3 variants that are available in the MWO timeline.

[Dalton Dakota]

Spleenslitta, on 06 July 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

They haven't mentioned it as far as i remember.

I looked it over at Sarna. Seems it only has 2 viable variants. The 5H and 5N. Sorry.
MWO mechs must have at least 3 variants that are available in the MWO timeline.

Actually, there are 4 variants of the Grasshopper, 5J, 5H, 5N, and the GHR-C. These do not include any of the post clan invasion or Jihad variants or the 'specialized' variants that existed.

Anyway, There are a large number of 'old faithfuls' that I hope we see in this game. My favorite is the Stealth Victor!

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Would be nice to have, heard vindicator and mauler are next IS chassis.

[Sniper09121986]

Well, we already have Locust and Cicada, so Grasshopper is the only logical conclusion here

[Dalton Dakota]

Sniper09121986, on 06 July 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Well, we already have Locust and Cicada, so Grasshopper is the only logical conclusion here

Oh man, your logic is sound and indisputable!

[Tim East]

I really liked the Mauler. Of course, I'm not really a heavy or assault driver that often.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Dalton Dakota, on 06 July 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

Actually, there are 4 variants of the Grasshopper, 5J, 5H, 5N, and the GHR-C. These do not include any of the post clan invasion or Jihad variants or the 'specialized' variants that existed.

Anyway, There are a large number of 'old faithfuls' that I hope we see in this game. My favorite is the Stealth Victor!

While yes, there are 4 variants... how many of those are available in 3050? I believe only two of them.

Which means no Grasshopper until a 3rd is viable, though they COULD do a hero version... though that opens an entire slew of problems and cries of pay to win, because you need 3 viable variants to be able to work though the pilot skill tree on a mech.

[Koniving]

Sniper09121986, on 06 July 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Well, we already have Locust and Cicada, so Grasshopper is the only logical conclusion here

Don't forget Fleas.

(edit: added Flea.)

Edited by Koniving, 07 July 2014 - 07:29 AM.

[Koniving]

Flash Frame, on 06 July 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

While yes, there are 4 variants... how many of those are available in 3050? I believe only two of them.

By technicality, the Timber Wolf S configuration will not exist for 2 years.
But the game is plagued with it. (Ironic, they could have done the Timber Wolf Alpha configuration to go with the Prime, Beta, and Gamma (Clan version of Charlie or C) configurations.

It would have made a lot more sense.

Anyway...

The Grasshopper has... the 5H set in 2780.
5N, set in 3040.
5J, set in 3049.
Grasshopper C, set in 3052 (same year as Timber Wolf config S).
There are also two reasonable Solaris competition builds called: 5HR-UK and 5K-DI-UK also set in the same timeline.

Edited by Koniving, 06 July 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[Alreech]

Mauler would be great, 2x AC5, 1x SRM4 and a XL-Engine in each torso. Or 4x Ultra AC5 and 2 SRM6 if you leave out the XL-Engine.

But who needs a Vindicator or Grasshopper ?
Almost every medium mech can mount a PPC in the right arm and the Cataphract 3D is a much better Poptart.

I would like to see the Warhammer in MWO.
One AC2 or AC5 and a PPC in each side torso mountet on Cockpit level...

Edited by Alreech, 06 July 2014 - 08:20 AM.

[SnagaDance]

I'm a great BattleTech Grasshopper fan. I don't see it appearing in MWO though. Not only because a lot of variants are not available time-line wise but there's also little difference in terms of weapon types & location. Which translates in not enough variety for MWO hardpoints.

Most are 1 Energy in each arm, side torsos and 1 in the CT with the head holding a single Missile or another Energy hardpoint. Alas....

[Dalton Dakota]

Flash Frame, on 06 July 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

While yes, there are 4 variants... how many of those are available in 3050? I believe only two of them.

Which means no Grasshopper until a 3rd is viable, though they COULD do a hero version... though that opens an entire slew of problems and cries of pay to win, because you need 3 viable variants to be able to work though the pilot skill tree on a mech.

According to 3050 Upgrade, the 5H, 5N, and GHR-C are available. The 5J, for which the GHR-C is base off, is the original Star League design. Since ComStar had fully functional Star League era 'Mechs, it's not a stretch to say that the 5J was available for use either.

Basically, one can make the case that there are a minimum of 3 variants (not counting the personalized 'Mechs) for them to produce this 'Mech without issuing a Hero 'Mech.

On a side note, I'm limited to 5 posts for some odd reason, so this is my final one until 7/7 at 8:35pm.

[Koniving]

PGI is currently trying to fill in the single weight classes.

With Vindicator being a 45 tonner (to rival the Blackjack) and Mauler being a 90 tonner (expect "Awesome" syndrome here), this leaves.. Flea to eventually fill in the 20 tonner spot (soon™). We'll then need a 25 tonner, 40 ton, 70 ton, 75 ton, 95 ton, and finally a 100 ton.

Given PGI's patterns.. With a medium and an assault filled, next must come a light followed by a heavy.. This order may shift around to try and even out the numbers of each weight class that is available. (For example if there's 3 lights, 5 mediums, 3 heavies, 5 assaults, then Heavies and Lights might get flooded with more to fill the gap. Just a demonstration count).

[SnagaDance]

Dalton Dakota, on 06 July 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

According to 3050 Upgrade, the 5H, 5N, and GHR-C are available. The 5J, for which the GHR-C is base off, is the original Star League design. Since ComStar had fully functional Star League era 'Mechs, it's not a stretch to say that the 5J was available for use either.

The 5J was reintroduced in 3049 as well, so it'sw not necessarily 100% Comstar only any more.

[Spleenslitta]

Dalton Dakota, on 06 July 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

Actually, there are 4 variants of the Grasshopper, 5J, 5H, 5N, and the GHR-C. These do not include any of the post clan invasion or Jihad variants or the 'specialized' variants that existed.

Anyway, There are a large number of 'old faithfuls' that I hope we see in this game. My favorite is the Stealth Victor!

You're right about the 5J. Then the Grasshopper is viable for MWO. Sadly the GHR-C is from 3052. Current MWO timeline is 3050 ain't it?
And it progresses day by day....In any case i wish for the Firebee but that will never happen since it's unseen.

[Koniving]

SnagaDance, on 06 July 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

I'm a great BattleTech Grasshopper fan. I don't see it appearing in MWO though. Not only because a lot of variants are not available time-line wise but there's also little difference in terms of weapon types & location. Which translates in not enough variety for MWO hardpoints.

Most are 1 Energy in each arm, side torsos and 1 in the CT with the head holding a single Missile or another Energy hardpoint. Alas....

One of the thousands of reasons many say "Sized hardpoints" or "TT engine limits" (it'd give you reason to run one size of mech over another, as that heavier one is far more limited in what engine sizes it can do, limiting its weapon choices), or the one that I think would matter most: Stock-based Armor limits.


Stock plus a fixed amount = maximum possible armor. Can a Cataphract 3D poptart better and have better hardpoints? Sure. But a Cataphract 3D has 352 stock, and if we say 96 more is the max then 352+96 = 448. Meanwhile a Grasshopper 5H stock is 416, + 96 = 512. Grasshopper thus is the superior 70 ton mech, even if it cannot jump.

Superiority thusly would be relative too. For example of the currently in-game 65 ton mechs, the Jagermechs have the best firepower. But alas, they have the weakest armor. The Thunderbolts have the best armor, but most of them can't barely carry that armor and properly utilize their hardpoints. Yet, in the middle ground we have the Catapult; neither too much firepower nor too armored; just fine in the middle.

Another example: Spider and Urbanmech. The Spider starts out with 112 armor and if we say 96 more is its max, then it rivals a stock Raven 2x in armor at 208. No big deal. It's fast, agile, kinda lacking the weapons department. But then we put it up against the Urbanmech. The Urbamech is slower than dirt but carries heavy firepower and armor. In the current MWO that armor is absolutely meaningless, so you have a gimped trash can with no speed or hardpoints. Solution? Stock armor + 3 tons = new max armor. It's stock armor would be 192 points, + 3 tons or 96 points more and what you have is 288 points of armor. Now that Urban mech can actually compete without any weird buffs.

Another fun fact: At stock armor, the Spider is 112 armor. The Urbamech is 192 armor. The difference is 192-112 = 80 points.
At the stated maxes... Spider is 208 armor. Urbanmech is 288. The difference is 288-208 = 80 points. Stock ratios get preserved, solidifying and maintaining the mech's unique characteristics even at maximum armors.

MWO seriously needs the added balance that can be provided with a stock-based armor limit. The slow Ravens for example have significantly superior armor to the fast Raven, despite being inferior in every other way. The Raven 4X has more armor than some Shadowhawks even at stock.

Edited by Koniving, 10 July 2014 - 09:10 AM.

[Sniper09121986]

Koniving, on 06 July 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Don't forget Fleas.

Why, and Fire Moth while we are at it, since it also has MASC. That would replace the almighty SDR-5D as the ultimate troll machine, at least for me, even though I never played Spiders and Locusts.

[Ovion]

Grasshopper:
GHR-5H - 3025
GHR-C - 3050
GHR-5J - 3050
GHR-6K - 3060
GHR-5N - 3062
GHR-7K - 3067
GHR-7X - 3075
GHR-7P - 3090

Current MWO Date: July 3049
Pos. treated as 3050 for available release variants.

So there's either 1, or 3 variants available atm.

Additionally:
Current Mechs:

Spoiler

--------------------------
Light (INNER SPHERE) - 6
Locust (20)
Commando (25)
Spider (30)
Firestarter (35)
Jenner (35)
Raven (35)
--------------------------
Light (CLAN) - 2
Kitfox (Uller) (30)
Adder (Puma) (35)
--------------------------
--------------------------
Medium (INNER SPHERE) - 9
Cicada (40)
Blackjack (45)
Centurion (50)
Hunchback (50)
Trebuchet (50)
Griffin (55)
Kintaro (55)
Shadowhawk (55)
Wolverine (55)
--------------------------
Medium (CLAN) - 2
Nova (Black Hawk) (50)
Stormcrow (Ryoken) (55)
--------------------------
--------------------------
Heavy (INNER SPHERE) - 7
Dragon (60)
Quickdraw (60)
Catapult (65)
Jagermech (65)
Thunderbolt (65)
Cataphract (70)
Orion (75)
--------------------------
Heavy (CLAN) - 2
Summoner (Thor) (70)
Timberwolf (Mad Cat) (75)
--------------------------
--------------------------
Assault (INNER SPHERE) - 7
Awesome (80)
Victor (80)
Battlemaster (85)
Stalker (85)
Highlander (90)
Banshee (95)
Atlas (100)
--------------------------
Assault (CLAN) - 2
Warhawk (Masakari) (85)
Direwolf (Daishi) (100)
--------------------------

A second 70 Tonner would be viable...
We don't really need any more Mediums right now.

3 more Lights, 2 more Heavies, 2 more Assaults, then we can look at more Mediums imo.

[Sug]

Giant slow energy boat. Super viable in Mwo.