106 replies to this topic

[DivineEvil]

Koniving, on 11 July 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

On the subject of what's coming... This is an earlier rendition of the Vindicator battlemech by Alex (PGI's artist).

It gives us a rough idea of what to expect. I would imagine it to be around the size of a Blackjack.

Likely shorter as a trade-off for the size of its arms.

That is a positive thing for me and my Liao comrades indeed. It's a shame PGI decided to fix head component down for every mech. I think it wasn't smart. Mechs with a turnable head would had a better time firing their arm weapons if their head would just follow the arm reticle. Just another reason to ride those mechs over the others.

Edited by DivineEvil, 23 July 2014 - 04:54 PM.

[Koniving]

DivineEvil, on 23 July 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

That is a positive thing for me and my Liao comrades indeed. It's a shame PGI decided to fix head component for every mech. I think it wasn't necessary. Mechs with a turnable head would had a better time firing their arm weapons if their head would just follow the arm reticle...

I agree.
I was actually thinking about that in a commando (with armlock turned on, it feels like the head itself and only the head is rotating).

The question is how to make that into a player controlled mechanic if it was to go into the game? Would the head simply follow the arm reticule (keeping it centered as close as possible) with the cockpit rotating to follow it?

If so, what would you do when you want to block enemy fire with your arms without losing sight of the enemy?

Of course, I'm still having fantasies of independently controlling both arms.

Then, some day... I'll be able to do this.


I hit four of those targets, btw.

[DivineEvil]

Koniving, on 23 July 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

I agree.
I was actually thinking about that in a commando (with armlock turned on, it feels like the head itself and only the head is rotating).

The question is how to make that into a player controlled mechanic if it was to go into the game? Would the head simply follow the arm reticule (keeping it centered as close as possible) with the cockpit rotating to follow it?

If so, what would you do when you want to block enemy fire with your arms without losing sight of the enemy?

Of course, I'm still having fantasies of independently controlling both arms.

Then, some day... I'll be able to do this.

Then you would tap Arm-Lock. Since it's a correct toggle now, your arms would just goes parallel to your torso, but your head would still be turnable. If even that isn't enough, then you'd also hold Ctrl to keep your torso fixed in current position. And to make stuff simple, head's amplitude would be equal to Arms yaw amplitude exactly.

Edited by DivineEvil, 23 July 2014 - 05:11 PM.

[Koniving]

DivineEvil, on 23 July 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

Then you would tap Arm-Lock. Since it's a correct toggle now, your arms would just goes parallel to your torso, but your head would still be turnable. If even that isn't enough, then you'd also hold Ctrl to keep your torso fixed in current position.

I'm still fantasizing of being able to look one way so I can see where I'm driving, have my arms track something else and my torso suppressing an enemy in a third direction.

So far the only way to do that is with Track IR or whatever knock-off of it they're using for MWO. Though that allows me to turn the pilot's head while aiming the arms in one direction and shooting the torso in another.

[DivineEvil]

Koniving, on 23 July 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

I'm still fantasizing of being able to look one way so I can see where I'm driving, have my arms track something else and my torso suppressing an enemy in a third direction.

So far the only way to do that is with Track IR or whatever knock-off of it they're using for MWO. Though that allows me to turn the pilot's head while aiming the arms in one direction and shooting the torso in another.

Fantasy is good, but I'm more on the practical line here. Considering that even now virtually nobody can efficiently track different targets with torso and arms separately, such overcomplexity wouldn't make much effect. On the other hand, providing a feature of turnable head would give some lackluster, rare-to-see 'mechs such as Commando, Centurion, Kintaro and Quickdraw a niche in game, while Victors and Highlanders might use some additional awareness and flexibility with their primary arm-mounted weapons, especialy after jump-jets were nerfed on them sensibly.

[Tarriss Halcyon]

DivineEvil, on 23 July 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

Fantasy is good, but I'm more on the practical line here. Considering that even now virtually nobody can efficiently track different targets with torso and arms separately, such overcomplexity wouldn't make much effect. On the other hand, providing a feature of turnable head would give some lackluster, rare-to-see 'mechs such as Commando, Centurion, Kintaro and Quickdraw a niche in game, while Victors and Highlanders might use some additional awareness and flexibility with their primary arm-mounted weapons, especialy after jump-jets were nerfed on them sensibly.

I wouldn't call Commando, Centurion or Kintaro rare-to-see, since I run into all three reasonably often. Quickdraw... hell, I'm mid-tier ELO (I think) and I still see more Dragons than QDs. Commando is a viable skirmisher-scout, and the COM-2D actually counters the meta-3L quite well with counter-ECM and close-quarters weapons to give it more close-burst than the 3L's two ER Larges. Centurion is still a decent, agile zombie, although it is less common than it used to be after it got outclassed by Shadow Hawk. Kintaro is still one of the best IS Medium Missile boats. 'nuf said. I'd say Trebuchet is rarer than both of your named mediums, and Locust rarer than the Commando.

A turnable head wouldn't be as much of a boon as you might think, though. Not for the added complexity of the controls. What we need is either unique module layouts or unique armor setups to bring more players to those less common mechs, not the gimmick of extra vision. Because, after all, why turn your head to target something you can't physically shoot?

Only mech that should have a turnable "head" is Urbanmech, and that "head" should have 360 degree rotation... and be it's CT. Makes it into a good player-controlled turret.

[DivineEvil]

Tarriss Halcyon, on 23 July 2014 - 07:10 PM, said:

I wouldn't call Commando, Centurion or Kintaro rare-to-see, since I run into all three reasonably often. Quickdraw... hell, I'm mid-tier ELO (I think) and I still see more Dragons than QDs. Commando is a viable skirmisher-scout, and the COM-2D actually counters the meta-3L quite well with counter-ECM and close-quarters weapons to give it more close-burst than the 3L's two ER Larges. Centurion is still a decent, agile zombie, although it is less common than it used to be after it got outclassed by Shadow Hawk. Kintaro is still one of the best IS Medium Missile boats. 'nuf said. I'd say Trebuchet is rarer than both of your named mediums, and Locust rarer than the Commando.

A turnable head wouldn't be as much of a boon as you might think, though. Not for the added complexity of the controls. What we need is either unique module layouts or unique armor setups to bring more players to those less common mechs, not the gimmick of extra vision. Because, after all, why turn your head to target something you can't physically shoot?

Only mech that should have a turnable "head" is Urbanmech, and that "head" should have 360 degree rotation... and be it's CT. Makes it into a good player-controlled turret.

I wouldn't much care about my elo. I just judge combining my daily experience in public matches of european time bracket with corresponding activity within my Unit.

Commando is a lackluster mech nobody would willingly take into combat with even slight importance. It has too little tonnage for the weapons it might mount, and too large by size for it, which makes it more fragile compared both to Locusts and Spiders. Spiders are out of discussion, one with 3 MPLs has a better chance of disrupting enemy ranks due to their JJ capability. I also see plently of Locusts and ride one myself with great success in tonnage-limilted drops. Giving Commandos a turnable head would greatly improve efficiency with their arm-mounted weapons, especially SRMs.

Centurions are low-elo simply due to the fundamental flaw of their primary RA weapon(s), which is easier to put away, than to effectively use. In all situations, Hunchbacks can perform just as good or even better due to overall smaller profile. Turning head might just give them a better time aiming their right arm during maneuvers.

Kintaros has the only benefit of having their SRM-friendly hardpoints in their arms, compared to Trebuchets, which has pathetic arm yaw amplitude, and Hunchbacks/Griffins/Shadowhawks/Wolverines, which has no such hardpoint at all. Turning head would make them much better strikers. I haven't seen one for over a week.

Quickdraws are just way too big for their tonnage. It pays off in close combat, but they also too clumsy for it as well. Turning head would make it easier to navigate in combat and give their arms something to do aside from blocking fire. Not even speaking about IV-4.

Overall, an ability of your head to track circle reticle rather than torso's one would make those mechs to stand out significanlty from mechs with fixed-mount cockpits. For instance, they would much better handle firing between different elevations (Alpines FTW), since you'd be able to actually see where you're aiming at in those circumstances both ways. Brawling with jump-jets will also be enchanced considerably in a similar way. It's just feels unjustified, when I have a mech with an actual head, whose cockit interior is obscuring the firing angles wide and high and completely discards the benefit of broader Arm amplitudes those mechs have.

I don't really think you've given it a proper thought to tell me there's no benefit to it.

Edited by DivineEvil, 23 July 2014 - 08:48 PM.