64 replies to this topic

[Devlin Pierce]

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

this wont change as long as damage and kills are the primary income.

100% this. Other roles need equal attention, and soon.

[Gayang3]

Sandpit, on 07 July 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Here's the thing

You're blaming spawn points and mm for poor teamwork. While I sympathize this isn't that can really be regulated nor should it be.

My teammates almost always move to link up with the rest of the team when we move out.

This is such a great tactic, if only those damn trigger crazy Aplha/Bravo lances stay a while to group up.... :/

[Votanin FleshRender]

The worst problem I have with this is Alpine Skirmish, one team's Charlie spawns very far to the SE, and if you're in any kind of slow assault, Alpha and Bravo will charge up the hill and die before Charlie even gets there. It happens every. single. time. And even begging them to wait or take the fight elsewhere fails every time "have to have the hill!" is the response I always get. The response they always get is a quick death from the enemy team, and by the time Charlie gets there the game is over except for us getting mopped up.

Would be nice if I ever spawned in a lance other than Charlie...

[tayhimself]

[Gayang3]

Votanin FleshRender, on 07 July 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

The worst problem I have with this is Alpine Skirmish, one team's Charlie spawns very far to the SE, and if you're in any kind of slow assault, Alpha and Bravo will charge up the hill and die before Charlie even gets there. It happens every. single. time. And even begging them to wait or take the fight elsewhere fails every time "have to have the hill!" is the response I always get. The response they always get is a quick death from the enemy team, and by the time Charlie gets there the game is over except for us getting mopped up.

Would be nice if I ever spawned in a lance other than Charlie...

^^^^^^
This, so many friging times this.

[Bulletsponge0]

Octantis, on 07 July 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

GaYang,

I see that all the time. The place where I see it make the biggest difference is River City Night. That charlie lance having to cross open water to catch up to those at the Citadel who are moving away. Just asking to get murdered.

If I'm in my Raven 3L I try to ferry them into the group but a lot of times the group is long gone.

Before the game starts I would recommend saying you are a DW in Charlie and that you can't keep up. If they proceed to run off and die your conscience is clear. Sure your W/L and KDR might take a hit but at least you dine on your own teams QQ tears.

yeah...happened to me in my warhawk there the other night

started charlie lance, rest of the team did the usual turn to the right and run

by the time I had actually crossed the water, the red team had caught me, all alone

called for help, watched my team keep going in the same direction they were

then general McPug decided to blame me for getting myself left behind

McPug: you should have grouped up
me: I'm in an assault, I can't keep up with your Timberwolves
McPug, you should have kept up, its your fault for stopping
me: I told you where the whole enemy team was and you kept moving away. Since I couldn't keep up, I decided to stop and delay them, and I was going to die alone anyway because you ignored my call for help and kept moving away faster than I can move
McPug: its all your fault


smh

[Elizander]

If mobility is an issue then perhaps getting up a 350 standard would be the best idea. It won't make you lightning fast but you'll get there a little sooner.

[Bulletsponge0]

Elizander, on 07 July 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

If mobility is an issue then perhaps getting up a 350 standard would be the best idea. It won't make you lightning fast but you'll get there a little sooner.

can't change engines in clan mechs though...what you got is what you get

[Lykaon]

DAYLEET, on 07 July 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

The old Spawn system was so much better, because if lance setup works in TT id does not in a fps. With the old system the team could readily split in half if you wanted to, you could have lights band together without leaving a guy alone to try and join the other lances. The more youre going to try and force table top roleplaying in fps youre going to end up with a poor system. With the old spawn setup you had a choice of flanking on the side you wanted with people filling in where they thought they were needed.

You do know that the primary reason for 4 mechs to a lance in table top?

It's not so they can manuver together it's not to enforce 4 mechs to be in the same place.

It's mech dropship bays are divisable by 4 and force composition forms are based on 4 to a lance

There is no rule in table top that requires a lance to remain in close formation or anything prohibiting one mech from a lance being on the opposite side of the map from the rest of his lance fighting along side 4 mechs from some other lance.

This being said. lance structures are really meant for organized play where House/Clan units or Merc corps can build lances for specific purposes.So yeah next to useless in puggie land where you get what the matchmaker deems worthy and structure or planning be damned!

[Sandslice]

I think OP is talking about things like:

-River City (Skirmish,) seaside Charlie lance starts around where the fuel tank looking things are on the dock; trying to join Alpha and Bravo puts them at risk of meta from the enemy dropship spawn, and the other two lances tend to rush the dock. Meanwhile, seaside Bravo tends to move toward Alpha into Lower City.

-HPG: Bravo at the d7 spawn either has to go all the way around the back, or through a clear firing line that tends to get blatted at; Blake help you if you're in a Dire Wolf in that lance. I've personally been rushed down and ganked there.

-Tourmaline: I forget the exact spawn, but one of the spawns doesn't allow you to move ten meters laterally from the nearest ridge without you being in a clear fire line - and that fire line is VERY easy access for enemy snipers and love-boats.

Surprisingly, Terra Therma has decent spawns in all modes.

[Biaxialrain]

It's better when Alpha is a premade with comms that go off on some crazy "mission" they don't communicate only to get slaughtered.

Meanwhile, the rest of the team wins it.

Great fun.

[KuroNyra]

Appogee, on 07 July 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

One of the Alpha spawn points on Tourmeline is a bigger problem.

If you spawn there in a slow Mech, you cannot regroup with the other two lances before coming under heavy enemy LRM, PPC and LL fire. If you're in a Dire Whale, you will have lost an entire side torso by the time you make it to cover.

My new hunchback agree.

I got destroyed after 20 freaking second of games...

[Gayang3]

Biaxialrain, on 07 July 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

It's better when Alpha is a premade with comms that go off on some crazy "mission" they don't communicate only to get slaughtered.

Meanwhile, the rest of the team wins it.

Great fun.

I have seen this so many times too. What are they thinking? Are they going after some hidden pot of gold/cbills that only they can see?

[Hellcat420]

Gayang3, on 07 July 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

I have seen this so many times too. What are they thinking? Are they going after some hidden pot of gold/cbills that only they can see?

they are getting that horribly boring map over with as soon as possible.

Sandpit, on 07 July 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Here's the thing

You're blaming spawn points and mm for poor teamwork. While I sympathize this isn't that can really be regulated nor should it be.

My teammates almost always move to link up with the rest of the team when we move out.

well this game does nothing to reward teamwork. it only rewards selfish play.

[Sandpit]

Gayang3, on 07 July 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

This is such a great tactic, if only those damn trigger crazy Aplha/Bravo lances stay a while to group up.... :/

Agreed if that's what you're running into but that's not something MM and PGI could or should regulate. What a player does in the game shouldn't reflect on PGI or the MM system.

1-2 lances derping off on their own and disregarding the rest of their team isn't anything that MM or PGI can regulate. That's one reason I was such a big proponent of groups. I don't want MY w/l and kdr determined by random players I'm forced to team with. Groups allows me to mitigate that issue.

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

well this game does nothing to reward teamwork. it only rewards selfish play.

yes and no

yea the rewards are skewed towards damage, the ultimate reward is a win though which is what the team's goal SHOULD be. Selfish players concerned only with their personal stats aren't going to change regardless of the rewards offered. If winning and losing a game doesn't "entice" them, no amount of other rewards is going to change that.

Again, that's why I like having the option to play with people I know instead of relying on 11-8 other players to do "their jobs". Poor teamwork, tactics, strategy, etc. isn't anyone's fault but the players involved

[RetroActive]

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

this wont change as long as damage and kills are the primary income.

What?! That doesn't make any sense. If damage and kills weren't indicated or recorded at all, players would still try to take advantage of an isolated, slow lance. Did you mean to say "This won't change as long as winning is the objective."?

[Hellcat420]

RetroActive, on 07 July 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

What?! That doesn't make any sense. If damage and kills weren't indicated or recorded at all, players would still try to take advantage of an isolated, slow lance. Did you mean to say "This won't change as long as winning is the objective."?

winning is not really the objective, a big payout is. that is a problem. imo nothing should get rewarded except for a win. a flat payout for the winning team, nothing for the losing team.

[Sandpit]

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

winning is not really the objective,

that's a bit subjective

winning is more important to me than a big payday. Again, how do you expect PGI to change a player's subjective opinion? This isn't something that PGI changes, this is something that you and your team changes

[Pjwned]

This is a really big, annoying problem on river city skirmish if you're on the water side because charlie lance always gets rushed now and nobody stays to defend or push or provide any cover fire, it's just move your ass immediately or get molested, and even then if you're in a big & slow mech you might not make it. It also makes matches really stale when it's the same approach from both teams every time, and it's the same sort of thing on other maps too, namely Alpine Peaks.

[Sandpit]

Pjwned, on 07 July 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

This is a really big, annoying problem on river city skirmish if you're on the water side because charlie lance always gets rushed now and nobody stays to defend or push or provide any cover fire, it's just move your ass immediately or get molested, and even then if you're in a big & slow mech you might not make it. It also makes matches really stale when it's the same approach from both teams every time, and it's the same sort of thing on other maps too, namely Alpine Peaks.

that's more of a map issue than a spawn issue though. That's what happens on small(ish) maps like River City. The spawn points could stand a little reworking on a few maps though but the underlying issue is more about teamwork and your team supporting one another than anything else.