64 replies to this topic

[Hellcat420]

Sandpit, on 07 July 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

that's a bit subjective

winning is more important to me than a big payday. Again, how do you expect PGI to change a player's subjective opinion? This isn't something that PGI changes, this is something that you and your team changes

whats more common in mechwarrior? teams covering eachother, linking up, working together, respecting eachothers fire lanes? or teams leaving entire lances hanging out to dry while they try to start shooting asap, running infront of teammates who are firing at the enemy just so they can get that extra salvo in and try to gank the kill and get some extra cash for the match?

[ztac]

It could be worse, on contact 3/4 of the team turns and runs away .... try to figure that one out? Hence leaving 3 guys behind to fight 12 , the problem is that you do not realise they ran until you die and spectate. Of course trying to run away in a Direwolf is not an option!

[Hellcat420]

ztac, on 07 July 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

It could be worse, on contact 3/4 of the team turns and runs away .... try to figure that one out? Hence leaving 3 guys behind to fight 12 , the problem is that you do not realise they ran until you die and spectate. Of course trying to run away in a Direwolf is not an option!

they dont want to be the first one targeted, because then they would not get much damage or a good payout.

[RetroActive]

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

winning is not really the objective, a big payout is. that is a problem. imo nothing should get rewarded except for a win. a flat payout for the winning team, nothing for the losing team.

But winning nets a bigger payout...

[Sandpit]

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

whats more common in mechwarrior? teams covering eachother, linking up, working together, respecting eachothers fire lanes? or teams leaving entire lances hanging out to dry while they try to start shooting asap, running infront of teammates who are firing at the enemy just so they can get that extra salvo in and try to gank the kill and get some extra cash for the match?

First and foremost, there's no such thing as "kill stealing" "ganking kills", etc. in a team game. Are you suggesting that players should stop in the middle of a firefight and make sure noone else on their team has called "dibs" on that enemy mech ebfore they shoot at it?

Again, that's not an issue with the game development, that's an issue with selfish playstyle. There's just not much PGI can do in order to change that. What would you suggest they do to change a player's opinion on what they consider fun?

Rewards and/or restrictions aren't goin to change that aspect of an online multiplayer game. If you don't enjoy playing with people like that the option is to find like-minded players to team up with so you decrease the number of players like that you have to deal with.

I didn't join a unit because I was "lonely", I joined one because I find it much more enjoyable to play alongside people that work together as a team as opposed to the selfish gaming style you often run into with pugs.

You're never going to eliminate running into those types of players but you can mitigate it by following the suggestions I've given. Griping at PGI in this particular instance isn't going to do any good though because it's not something they can really do anything about.

[Hellcat420]

Sandpit, on 07 July 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

First and foremost, there's no such thing as "kill stealing" "ganking kills", etc. in a team game. Are you suggesting that players should stop in the middle of a firefight and make sure noone else on their team has called "dibs" on that enemy mech ebfore they shoot at it?

Again, that's not an issue with the game development, that's an issue with selfish playstyle. There's just not much PGI can do in order to change that. What would you suggest they do to change a player's opinion on what they consider fun?

Rewards and/or restrictions aren't goin to change that aspect of an online multiplayer game. If you don't enjoy playing with people like that the option is to find like-minded players to team up with so you decrease the number of players like that you have to deal with.

I didn't join a unit because I was "lonely", I joined one because I find it much more enjoyable to play alongside people that work together as a team as opposed to the selfish gaming style you often run into with pugs.

You're never going to eliminate running into those types of players but you can mitigate it by following the suggestions I've given. Griping at PGI in this particular instance isn't going to do any good though because it's not something they can really do anything about.

actually, if you remove the incentive for this kind of behavior, it will change.

[Gayang3]

The best moments in this game is when one of my lance mates stop and provide me with covering fire as I haul 100tons of Atlas ass to cover, or when a whole group of team mates come back to cover my lance. Or when I do so and get a "thank you mate" from a relieved DireWhale.... true comradeship

Those moments always bring joy to me.

But those moments are far and far between.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Tourmaline can be the worst for Charlie. I always type in lance only chat "we're basically in enemy territory, gotta move fast". But when there's an Atlas, Direwolf speed mech in the lance, I'm obligated to stick around to escort them, because it feels terrible to shoot them the deuce while running away at 100kph to join Alpha and Bravo. Then a few seconds later a bunch of red blips appear around the assault and they die, cursing me out in the chat.

Staying usually gets me killed with sub-100 damage, but I don't care.

I have noticed that if you start actually saying in the chat that Charlie needs help travelling, a few people will help out. Don't expect them to come instinctively; seems people have short memories on what being strung out in Charlie is like.

I do feel like the mm should be changed, so that premades spawn together in a random lance, instead of defaulting to Alpha every time.

Edited by Kevjack, 07 July 2014 - 02:44 PM.

[Gayang3]

Kevjack, on 07 July 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Tourmaline can be the worst for Charlie. I always type in lance only chat "we're basically in enemy territory, gotta move fast". But when there's an Atlas, Direwolf speed mech in the lance, I'm obligated to stick around to escort them, because it feels terrible to shoot them the deuce while running away at 100kph to join Alpha and Bravo. Then a few seconds later a bunch of red blips appear around the assault and they die, cursing me out in the chat.

Staying usually gets me killed with sub-100 damage, but I don't care.

The world needs more people like you

[Biaxialrain]

I always retreat in reverse to help teammates that are doing likewise.

I can assure you that this is rare and I've only witnessed another player doing so once.

[Hellcat420]

RetroActive, on 07 July 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

But winning nets a bigger payout...

not always. i have a lot of games that were losses but i got twice the payout as some of my wins.

[Sandpit]

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

actually, if you remove the incentive for this kind of behavior, it will change.

It will help encourage it more sure, but it's not going to just change the mentalities and behaviors behind that particular playstyle. You're still going to have the same players doing the same thing. The players that care about that kinda stuff and want the teamwork and strategy more than pew pew pew die die die? They're already doing it. You'll get a slight shift from some but you're not going to change how a player plays a game.

Even with extra rewards they'll still be just as successful as they were before that change. They might not earn EXTRA rewards, but they'll continue earning what they were.

Biaxialrain, on 07 July 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

I always retreat in reverse to help teammates that are doing likewise.

I can assure you that this is rare and I've only witnessed another player doing so once.

me and the people I play with do it on a pretty regular basis. Again, that's the difference between random teammates and playing with with teammates that have the "teamwork" mentality.

[Koniving]

Gayang3, on 07 July 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

It's funny actually, in the group only queue on one of my drops the first day with a player I frequently see/respond to on the forum and brought with me, we both came to notice that. "Charlie Lance is always isolated and near the enemy. No matter what map it is, Charlie is always in the worst possible spot."

That video is uploading. I believe it was this match, but I know it's certainly one of the matches I'm uploading today.

[Hellcat420]

Sandpit, on 07 July 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

It will help encourage it more sure, but it's not going to just change the mentalities and behaviors behind that particular playstyle. You're still going to have the same players doing the same thing. The players that care about that kinda stuff and want the teamwork and strategy more than pew pew pew die die die? They're already doing it. You'll get a slight shift from some but you're not going to change how a player plays a game.

Even with extra rewards they'll still be just as successful as they were before that change. They might not earn EXTRA rewards, but they'll continue earning what they were.

i didnt suggest extra rewards. i sugested removing the incentive to play this way.

Edited by Hellcat420, 07 July 2014 - 04:01 PM.

[Sandpit]

omg

I never said you specifically. Look through this and the many threads regarding this particular type of issue. It's been suggested numerous times. I was just pointing out all the things that have been suggested and/or blamed that aren't going to help improve the situation.

How is it you read my post (all of it) and the only thing you took away from the entire thing is "I didn't suggest rewards"

Nothing personal to you but that's exactly why ideas and suggestions go unheeded around here.
*lengthy detailed post and response illustrating several things*
but people want to focus on one tiny part of the post

I mean come on, do I really have to type (not you personally but plenty of others and otehr threads) every time I post something like that? Or do I really have to post (in my opinion) every time I post something subjective just so I don't get "that's your opinion" as a response? (not directed entirely at you) (<--- see? because I knew if I didn't put in that disclaimer I'd more than likely wind up with a "I didn't say that personally" response)

Point being if you (yes you personally this time) along with everyone else really want to improve the game and aspects of teh game then instead of doing things like that and blaming (not you personally) things that aren't the root cause of the problem in the first place, then we need to have exchanges of ideas and something more than "I didn't say that"

You talked about taking AWAY incentives. That's still not going to change a player's opinion of what's fun. If a player enjoys mindlessly running about and pew pew pewing, they're not going to change simply because it's more rewarding to play in another manner.

The casual guy who just wants to run and shoot isn't going to care about rewards and incentives (regardless of what they're directed at), they're going to care about pew pew pewing the other guy and stuff like their kdr and w/l records.

[Hellcat420]

Sandpit, on 07 July 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

omg

I never said you specifically. Look through this and the many threads regarding this particular type of issue. It's been suggested numerous times. I was just pointing out all the things that have been suggested and/or blamed that aren't going to help improve the situation.

How is it you read my post (all of it) and the only thing you took away from the entire thing is "I didn't suggest rewards"

Nothing personal to you but that's exactly why ideas and suggestions go unheeded around here.
*lengthy detailed post and response illustrating several things*
but people want to focus on one tiny part of the post

I mean come on, do I really have to type (not you personally but plenty of others and otehr threads) every time I post something like that? Or do I really have to post (in my opinion) every time I post something subjective just so I don't get "that's your opinion" as a response? (not directed entirely at you) (<--- see? because I knew if I didn't put in that disclaimer I'd more than likely wind up with a "I didn't say that personally" response)

Point being if you (yes you personally this time) along with everyone else really want to improve the game and aspects of teh game then instead of doing things like that and blaming (not you personally) things that aren't the root cause of the problem in the first place, then we need to have exchanges of ideas and something more than "I didn't say that"

You talked about taking AWAY incentives. That's still not going to change a player's opinion of what's fun. If a player enjoys mindlessly running about and pew pew pewing, they're not going to change simply because it's more rewarding to play in another manner.

The casual guy who just wants to run and shoot isn't going to care about rewards and incentives (regardless of what they're directed at), they're going to care about pew pew pewing the other guy and stuff like their kdr and w/l records.

if you quote me and write a paragraph it looks like a response to what i said. if are going to make a general statement dont quote someone directly infront of that statement.

[Fatal25]

I have started a post on this very thing about three weeks ago. There was much discussion on how or why you got put into Charlie Lance. It boils down to when you were placed in the game, it has nothing to do with your ELO. ELO does effect what game you get put into, not what lance.

I could not agree more with the OP. I have spawned in Charlie roughly 97% of all of my solo drops and I almost always pilot an assault. No one waits for the assaults, even when you bring your Atlas-DC with ecm which can significantly aid your team. Some of the worst maps are River City (south spawn), Desert (north spawn), Alpine (south spawn) , and Canyon (south spawn). I have been left alone on all of those maps and shredded by a pack of lights with no aid whatsoever more than once.

[RetroActive]

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

not always. i have a lot of games that were losses but i got twice the payout as some of my wins.

Well....there are always exceptions, man. But the majority of the time winning gets you a larger payout than losing.

[Sandpit]

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 04:15 PM, said:

if you quote me and write a paragraph it looks like a response to what i said. if are going to make a general statement dont quote someone directly infront of that statement.

you just did it again...
so you completely ignored EVERYTHING said in that post, including ideas to possibly help improve a part of the game you apparently aren't happy with, just to say "don't quote me"

Ok, don't worry about it dude. I won't quote you anymore but the rest of us are going to ahve an on-topic conversation now lol

Fatal25, on 07 July 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

I have started a post on this very thing about three weeks ago. There was much discussion on how or why you got put into Charlie Lance. It boils down to when you were placed in the game, it has nothing to do with your ELO. ELO does effect what game you get put into, not what lance.

I could not agree more with the OP. I have spawned in Charlie roughly 97% of all of my solo drops and I almost always pilot an assault. No one waits for the assaults, even when you bring your Atlas-DC with ecm which can significantly aid your team. Some of the worst maps are River City (south spawn), Desert (north spawn), Alpine (south spawn) , and Canyon (south spawn). I have been left alone on all of those maps and shredded by a pack of lights with no aid whatsoever more than once.

You wind up in Charlie lance for a few reasons

First, premades started in Alpha. Then other groups fill out the rest, solo players fill out the rest after that.
Then you throw in Elo, mech selection, etc. after that. I've been in a premade and been in charlie lance. It has nothing to do with the player "skill" persay, it's how the MM system filled out matches when you hit launch.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Gayang3, on 07 July 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

I mostly run an Atlas DDC with ECM and more often than not I end up on Charlie lance at some godforsaken corner on the map(Sigh).

But that's not what really makes me mad. Its Alpha and Bravo running away without grouping up. 2 things happen after that, 1)they meet a well organized enemy and get decimated 8 vs 12 2)a bunch of enemy lights come up behind us (charlie) and shred me and my lance to pieces and then Alpha and Bravo get decimated 8 vs 12.

It does not end well!

If only Alpha and Bravo waited for my lance, I could have given ECM to everyone and dealt a good amount of damage to the bad guys, the other 3 mechs in my lance could have also contributed. But nopes, most of the time that's not what happens.

Now THAT'S what really grinds my gears.




End of rant

this exact same thing happens to Alpha lance all of the time....even if you are a premade, it is very easy for the other two lances to ignore your calls in chat and to go do their own thing. Frustrating to say the least, but that is life on the internet.