110 replies to this topic

[Ursh]

orin, on 07 July 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

I'm a bit surprised that there isn't a "class only" skirmish mode. 12 lights vs 12 lights, 12 mediums versus 12 mediums, 12 assaults versus 12 assaults. In the fiction companies tend to be of a similar class. There'd be a lot less room for complaint if everyone you were up against was running Mechs in a similar weight class.

It's a great idea, but I think a lot of the light pilots wouldn't like it. Of the people who currently play lights mechs a lot, shooting assaults/heavies in the back is their playstyle, not fighting other lights.

Vassago Rain, on 07 July 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

Yeah, most of my mechs are timemachines. I've got happy 3050 banners and holos in most of my robots. Also, variants from the 3050s, even though we're either in 3048 or 3049. They can't seem to decide.

3050 holo confirmed for viable forever.

Hell yes! I've got my Happy 3050 holo and champagne bucket!

[MountainCopper]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

It's not the players fault that the queue's for those mechs hover under 20%, it's because if you want to compete, those weight classes start you at a disadvantage.

I would had said, it is the players' fault. Currently leveling nothing else but Clan Heavies and Assaults right now. Leading to weight class distributions of about 10%, 15%, 45%, 30%.
Not that it was much different before the Invasion, where the Heavies were the most dominant group.

And although the MM now has the 4x3 rule in effect, it doesn't do anything to enforce it. When players don't start to even out the weight classes on their own, their should be an incentive to do so. A score multiplier below 1 for cbills and XP is what I had in mind for preference.
Because, I also get really tired after playing 10 games where I choose a Medium Mech and nearly everything I have to fight is at least 20t heavier than me. And I would add another 10t for comparison between a Clan and IS Mech...

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

As long as mediums are so easily hit, and clan mechs can put 4-5 ac's and 1-2 PPC at a time on you, bringing a medium mech will just lower your score.

That's a balance issue, I'm also getting really, really tired with. People being as lazy as humanly possible in bringing primarily Gauss Rifles and PPCs.

Pathetic. On both sides...

[Kmieciu]

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

well ya, what do you expect, a 30-50 ton mech to take damage like a 75-100 ton mech?

I expect it do to more, actually. A faster mech has more opportunities to deal damage. The difference in firepower is not that huge between medium and assault mechs. SHD-2D2 6 DPS sustained (14 max) AS7-D 7 DPS sustained (17.5 max).
In my opinion it's more difficult to PUG in an Atlas than in a Shadow Hawk. If your team decides to leave you, there is nothing you can do to survive.

[Sephlock]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

Again, the argument "I can do well in this mech" is not a counter argument. I've had a 4 kill match in my Nova. But only because I tried harder against inferior competition. Good pilots can make any mech work, but taking any medium right now is like playing on hard mode.

I gotta say, your name in the context of this thread (and yes, I know where it's from) is...

Lol.

[Kyle Wright]

I played all night with 5 guys in my unit running 3-4 IS medium mech brawlers with srm's and medium laser and we were wrecking face. Averaging 7 kills for our group and 400+ damage. Medium mechs as do lights, require a different mind set. Think ambush predators, you look for the weak and unsuspecting to attack and if something is to much to handle fade back and wait a few seconds. Use cover to conceal movements. And if up close run standards and learn to torso twist.

[Black Ivan]

With medium Mech models a big as assault and heavies there is one problem. The game offers no incentives to play a medium Mech. I pained myself though the Griffin an actually the Wolverines.

[Ursh]

In my Stormcow, I would say the clan mech that gives me the most problems is the Twolf. It's ridiculously agile for its weight, and outmaneuvering it is pretty difficult given that it can twist far enough and fast enough to almost shoot behind it.

Also, the Warhawks are not the Dire Whales. They can actually torso twist with a modicum of speed, particularly once they've unlocked double basics. If you approach fighting one like you're fighting a dire whale, you're likely to get shot in the face.

[badaa]

i all most only use meds 3 hunchbacks 2 shadow-hawks and a griffin.

the size thing is a ***** but they said "it would be to hard to change",

and they wonder why people are losing faith in this game

[Mordin Ashe]

My suggestion is introducing hard caps on 3 for every weight class (yes heavies, looking at you) and strongly nerf the agility of heavies and assaults. Right now heavies have speed, payload and good armor - exactly what mediums are supposed to have. Once heavies handle like a Stalkers, then we may have some role warfare balance. But right now every Mech handles very well (except for the DW) and it isn't a limiting factor it was supposed to be.

[Kmieciu]

I'm willing to bet that the current mech models will never be altered.

What we can hope for are new small medium mechs with superior hit boxes or positive quirks for existing medium chassis.

A Timber Wolf has the same turn that is equal to a Hunchback with a 250-rated engine (57.32 °/s 6.28 s) or a Nova. It so fast, that turning any faster is really not needed in a brawl. Hence, the turning and torso twist rate on a Timber Wolf should be reduced, while the Hunchback and Centurion should receive an agility buff.

Edited by Kmieciu, 08 July 2014 - 01:18 AM.

[Kitane]

Kmieciu, on 08 July 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

I'm willing to bet that the current mech models will never be altered.

What we can hope for are new small medium mechs with superior hit boxes or positive quirks for existing medium chassis.

A Timber Wolf has the same turn that is equal to a Hunchback with a 250-rated engine (57.32 °/s 6.28 s) or a Nova. It so fast, that turning any faster is really not needed in a brawl. Hence, the turning and torso twist rate on a Timber Wolf should be reduced, while the Hunchback and Centurion should receive an agility buff.

That's why I am saying that agility has diminishing returns. Fully unlocked heavies with powerful engines (330+) torso twist and turn so fast that even if medium mechs could spin at 180 degrees/second, it wouldn't make them more viable.

I would reverse the agility, acceleration and deceleration buffs from pilot skills across the board before any further tweaks to individual mechs. Instead of adding +20% to stock turn/twist speed, all mechs would start at 80% of the current stock agility and unlock 90% and then 100% of the stock agility when fully unlocked.

[Demoncard]

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

hunchbacks are still decent

Hunchbacks are a timeless classic, they're not just decent.

[Thorn Hallis]

It is indeed the players fault - because we're not pressing PGI hard enough to implement a proper role warfare.

Ok j/k, they ain't listening anyway.

State of affairs right now (or, since the engine restrictions for mediums) is that mediums are only piloted by those who like the class or a particular chassis. Other then that there are no reasons to bring a medium 'Mech to the battlefield. And that needs to change, be it through better rewards, exclusive modules, exclusive quirks, whatever.

[Piney II]

Bhael Fire, on 07 July 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

My best results with Clan mechs are with mediums.

My results with the heavies, especially the Timberwolf, and assaults are abysmal.

Same here. My best mech is the Stormcrow - and I only drove heavies prior to getting it.

Lots of fun!

[Impyrium]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

Good pilots can make any mech work

I'm... pretty sure that makes it the player's fault then, right? If a player is not good enough, then they won't be able to make something work. That makes it the player's faults. As it is the 'Mech scaling is ridiculous at the moment, as in 'Mechs are too different in my opinion, not too similar, but mediums are just as useful as anything else if they're in the right hands.

As I've said before, my best 'Mech is still my Hunchback. Why? It's simple. It's decent. It often gets passed up as a priority target. Obviously the 'Mech won't take on fresh assualts and win- surprise!

Ultimately I'm not sure what you want. Make mediums faster? That would be... kinda silly. They're too fast as is, so are lights. Speed is too valuable. Make them smaller? No thanks, I don't want to run my mini hunchie.

What I WOULD agree to is a perk system for certain 'Mechs. It would be good to have armour bonuses on my Hunchie's hunch, for example. But that would apply to all classes, not just mediums.

[psihius]

People just tend to play mediums like it is a Heavy or an Assault - straight head on attack with no dodge movement and taking multiple heavy targets on at once alone. No wonders there are so few mediums on the battlefields.

Play in a medium group of 3, plan your routes and go for holes in enemy defense. Get out at the first hints of trouble and redeploy. Speed is everything, focus fire is too. Learn to shoot for the weak spots of enemy mech's, not just unload into CT - taking down a torso decreases enemy firepower significantly and that can be a difference between you getting out practically undamaged or lying dead. You rarely can alpha kill an enemy into CT even if all 3 of you get it right. You sure as hell can destroy a leg or a side torso (and if IS mech carries an XL - it's dead)

Edited by psihius, 08 July 2014 - 02:51 AM.

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

The two idea's

1. I really like are the scale one (why is my centurion so freaking big?), because being less noticeable is more important when you're 55 tons (or 50 tons and straddled with 5 tons of jump jets, looking at you, Nova).

2. Reduce agility on heavier mechs. Mainly because when you do find yourself toe-to-toe, in a medium you're trying to get behind them, and that hard to do v/s a Timberwolf that any descent pilot can keep you in the cross-hairs on. That's the one area where they got it right on the Direwolf, because a medium can rip those guys apart in close. Of course, I don't know if you noticed, but people were demanding money back on their Heavy Metals when they tweaked them to turn like an assault, so not sure if we'll ever see anything like that.

[mogs01gt]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

I'm trying to level my medium clan mechs, and it's hard when a Direwolf can take your leg to red/off in one shot. I won't group with my team in a medium/light because that makes me a liability, and it's not something an enforced weight class mix will fix.
As long as mediums are so easily hit, and clan mechs can put 4-5 ac's and 1-2 PPC at a time on you, bringing a medium mech will just lower your score.It's not the players fault that the queue's for those mechs hover under 20%, it's because if you want to compete, those weight classes start you at a disadvantage. Not that you can't do well in them, just that it's considerably harder and to many, not worth the effort.I'm open to suggestion, what could they do to make those classes competitive again?

I feel your pain bro! All I pilot are Meds! I pilot them because I like speed and a bit of firepower. More diverse game modes and better map design would really help out lighter mechs but typically in F2P games, game modes and maps are put on the back burner.

[Ursh]

Heavy mech agility could use a tweak downwards, and medium mech agility could use a tweak upwards.

Not just for IS meds either, for Clan meds.

[Ngamok]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 July 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

Again, the argument "I can do well in this mech" is not a counter argument. I've had a 4 kill match in my Nova. But only because I tried harder against inferior competition. Good pilots can make any mech work, but taking any medium right now is like playing on hard mode.

I like hard mode. Do people like to play high damage, easy skill builds? Well, sure. Everyone's mentality is that if they bring it, then I have to bring it. To honest, I have the most fun in mediums and heavies with speed and agility. It makes me work harder to survive and do good. I'll just keep rolling with the punches they throw at me and keep on having my fun.