65 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

I Zeratul I, on 07 July 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

I asked the above question in a few drops this morning.

Everyone who responded seemed to hate the new anti-jump-sniper, fall damage, metrics.

What's your take on things?

keep your panties on.

And it didn't even come close to ruining the game. Bunch of drama queens.

[Riptor]

Thats what you get if you keep babbling on about "tanks on legs"... and completly ignore that mechs have a skeleton and muscle structure to absorb such small falls rather easaly.

But nooooo... due to technological limitations of the former games the "mechwarrior" franchise has thought people that mechs are in fact only bad tanks on legs that have the articulation range of a bread box.

Yeah im still not over the fact that people actually believe mechs are nothing more then tanks on legs... if they are just that we sure as hell could have stuck with normal tanks btw.

[ManDaisy]

I love the new jump jets values. I don't even have a problem with light mechs and fall damage. Just move off a cliff at a managable 70kpg and not 120kph and you wont get air born.

[Bishop Steiner]

Riptor, on 07 July 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Thats what you get if you keep babbling on about "tanks on legs"... and completly ignore that mechs have a skeleton and muscle structure to absorb such small falls rather easaly.

But nooooo... due to technological limitations of the former games the "mechwarrior" franchise has thought people that mechs are in fact only bad tanks on legs that have the articulation range of a bread box.

Yeah im still not over the fact that people actually believe mechs are nothing more then tanks on legs... if they are just that we sure as hell could have stuck with normal tanks btw.

I hear Gundam online is waiting for you.

[Clit Beastwood]

Just wanna play, on 07 July 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

so i just used a 5v spider, all 12 jjs, and jumped off the alpine mountain.......ouch

Haha I did it on tourmaline off the spires lol. Were you able to leg on the first jump?

All I've noticed is you have to drive everything like a jj light - like feathering your jets to land without that little pause after jetting. If you're used to doing that, it's not bad. The muscle memory is already there.

Edited by Fierostetz, 07 July 2014 - 09:31 PM.

[Ursh]

It really made the cryhards mad.

Having said that, it was a bit too much damage. It's almost impossible to go down some hills without taking any leg damage.

[FlipOver]

I Zeratul I, on 07 July 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

I asked the above question in a few drops this morning.

Everyone who responded seemed to hate the new anti-jump-sniper, fall damage, metrics.

What's your take on things?

I like the new fall damage thing.
Usually I pilot a RVN when dropping solo or 2-3 man groups (which is almost 90% of my drops).

Being careful about the speed when going down slope is just another thing light need to pay attention. No big deal, really.

For a while now, ights were running and jumping around brawlers and getting away "scot free" most of the time.

Due to their special specs (small size + high speed + low ping + small hitboxes + dodgy hit registration) - choose any 3 of those 5 - most light pilots thought it would be a good idea to play a light like if they were piloting an assault with speed + JJs.

Even if the RVN is one of the lights with the biggest hitboxes on the legs, this new feature really didn't change much on the game play for a real scout / harasser who needs to be silent, sneaky and smart.

Sure the fall damage is something new to take into account, but I even think we all should get collision damage with the scenery and the faster you hit something, the harder the ding on your 'mechs armor.

Let's just adapt to the new mechanic and learn from it, I know I'm doing just that and enjoying the game a bit more.

[Willard Phule]

*shrug*

I haven't had a problem with it and I pretty much play jump capable mechs exclusively. Granted, I also use the new module....and odds are pretty good that new players can't afford the 15,000 GXP/6,000,000 Cbill pricetag on it.

Granted, I don't use them to poptart or anything like that. I use them they way they were intended to be used...mobility. With the buggy terrain issues (ever notice how you can trip on the shadow of a rock in Canyon?), it's well worth the investment.

But I have seen a LOT of poptarts kill themselves....and it's great.

I wonder if anyone's tried out that module for non-jumpers...

Edited by Willard Phule, 08 July 2014 - 03:26 AM.

[Chemie]

nerfed lights
nerfed none JJ mechs
no change to poptarting
=fail
but PGI will stick with it like every other silly mechanic

[El Bandito]

It made my jump brawlers such as the Firestarter and A1 even more vulnerable in the legs. Just a simple hop which should not affect a JJ capable mechs--as they were built to absorb the shock of landing--deals unacceptable damage. Being a poptart is easier.

[Willard Phule]

Chemie, on 08 July 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

nerfed lights
nerfed none JJ mechs
no change to poptarting
=fail
but PGI will stick with it like every other silly mechanic

I really have to disagree with that one. Perhaps there's no change to experienced poptarts that have always been feathering their jets on the way down, but in the Derp Elo of the PUG.....let's just say that the word "experienced" isn't used all that often.

Seriously, you should see it. It's hilarious. I see one guy suicide because he knocked his own legs off about every third game or so.

El Bandito, on 08 July 2014 - 03:36 AM, said:

It made my jump brawlers such as the Firestarter and A1 even more vulnerable in the legs. Just a simple hop which should not affect a JJ capable mechs--as they were built to absorb the shock of landing--deals unacceptable damage. Being a poptart is easier.

They don't for me, and most of my jumpers have only a single jet. I only use it to help clear terrain and for a tighter turn radius when dealing with lights....and I never, NEVER, end up hurting my own legs. Unless I bumble off the edge of the world and don't realize it in time to light up the jets.

[El Bandito]

Willard Phule, on 08 July 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

They don't for me, and most of my jumpers have only a single jet. I only use it to help clear terrain and for a tighter turn radius when dealing with lights....and I never, NEVER, end up hurting my own legs. Unless I bumble off the edge of the world and don't realize it in time to light up the jets.

Perhaps by the virtue of having a single jet makes you climb time so slow that you do not ascend high enough in the first place. I'll have to try it. Nevertheless I believe PGI should give certain mechs that are not used for poptarting--such as the A1 or the Summoner to have reduced fall damage quirks. That way, they will not be flat out inferior to some other mech I know.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 July 2014 - 03:54 AM.

[Willard Phule]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2014 - 03:54 AM, said:

Perhaps by the virtue of having a single jet makes you climb time so slow that you do not ascend high enough in the first place. I'll have to try it. Nevertheless I believe PGI should give certain mechs that are not used for poptarting--such as the A1 or the Summoner to have reduced fall damage quirks. That way, they will not be flat out inferior to some other mech I know.

I dunno. I've been piloting jump capable mechs since MW2. As far as giving quirks, I don't see why that's necessary. You jump until you're half empty, then use the other half to land. Seems relatively straightforward to me.

[Too Much Love]

It didn't ruin it, actually it made things better.

IMHO, falling damage to heavies and assaults should be stronger.

I think new adjusments and heat scaling will even improve situation. poptart meta should be changed.

[CeeKay Boques]

I don't know. It only stole super high jumping Spider from me. I've always had max JJ, and always feathered, so I'm not feeling it... except when I do the one thing a 12 JJ spider can do.

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2014 - 08:32 PM, said:

keep your panties on.

And it didn't even come close to ruining the game. Bunch of drama queens.

And that's be fore I read this so... Sweet! I like the JJ changes.

[Alistair Winter]

Praetor Knight, on 07 July 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

It just needs further tweaking.

As much as I hate the fall damage scaling, I agree with this. It's not a terrible idea. It's just a matter of tweaking fall damage along with the jump jet effectiveness.

• Punishing heavy and assault mechs for jumping off cliffs without jump jets will add another tactical element to the game.
  
• Making the light mechs take very little damage from falling will restore a smidgen of viability to light mechs without jump jets , and will also increase viability of light mechs with jump jets.
  
• Lots of fall damage for heavier classes and very little fall damage for lighter classes, means that lighter mechs can go just about everywhere, but heavier mechs will have limited mobility.
  
• Widening the gap between 1 and 6 jump jets will improve the situation, as 1 jump jet should be enough to break the fall when jumping off cliffs, but not enough to climb hills.
  
• 4 jump jets should be enough to choose between a really high jump with no breaking (and thus, lots of leg damage) or a short jump with breaking.
  
• 6 jump jets should give really high jumps with breaking, but the weight of the jump jets will rob you of a lot of firepower.

I would take fall damage over all the other attempted solutions to poptarting, any day of the week. With the right tweaking, this alone may be enough to deal with poptarts, even without the reticule shake and the forward drift. Especially if hard falls leads to knock-down, leaving your mech incapacitated a few seconds if you make a bad jump (e.g. falling 200 feet without breaking the fall).


However... I'm not holding my breath.

drunkblackstar, on 08 July 2014 - 04:15 AM, said:

It didn't ruin it, actually it made things better.
IMHO, falling damage to heavies and assaults should be stronger.
I think new adjusments and heat scaling will even improve situation. poptart meta should be changed.

Definitely made it worse. If it had punished heavies and assaults more than lights, it would have made things better. But right now, moderate leg damage (orange armor after a few jumps) is not a problem for light mechs, because they rarely die from being legged anyway. It's a HUGE problem for light mechs, which die from being legged very often indeed. Especially Ravens.

By punishing all mechs equally, it punished the light mechs more.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 08 July 2014 - 05:14 AM.

[FlipOver]

Alistair Winter, on 08 July 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

[snip]
Definitely made it worse. If it had punished heavies and assaults more than lights, it would have made things better. But right now, moderate leg damage (orange armor after a few jumps) is not a problem for light mechs, because they rarely die from being legged anyway. It's a HUGE problem for light mechs, which die from being legged very often indeed. Especially Ravens.

By punishing all mechs equally, it punished the light mechs more.

While I understand you, you forget that you are landing a 20+ TON hunk of metal without absorbing the impact with JJs.
That should hurt the 'mech. And since the 'mech has so little armor compared to assaults, you either use JJs to decrease the impact to the ground, or just go downhill slowly without JJs...

Running around like a crazy chicken at 140kph+ should hurt when you fall into the ground.

To me, using a Raven-3L (no JJs) this new feature was never an issue...

[Too Much Love]

Alistair Winter, on 08 July 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

Definitely made it worse. If it had punished heavies and assaults more than lights, it would have made things better. But right now, moderate leg damage (orange armor after a few jumps) is not a problem for light mechs, because they rarely die from being legged anyway. It's a HUGE problem for light mechs, which die from being legged very often indeed. Especially Ravens.

By punishing all mechs equally, it punished the light mechs more.

I agree that falling damage first of all should be applied to heavies-assaults, and to much less extent - to lights-mediums, if it should be applied to them at all. Punishing lights was a mistake.

[Alistair Winter]

FlipOver, on 08 July 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

While I understand you, you forget that you are landing a 20+ TON hunk of metal without absorbing the impact with JJs.
That should hurt the 'mech. And since the 'mech has so little armor compared to assaults, you either use JJs to decrease the impact to the ground, or just go downhill slowly without JJs...
Running around like a crazy chicken at 140kph+ should hurt when you fall into the ground.
To me, using a Raven-3L (no JJs) this new feature was never an issue...

I'm not talking about realism at all. I'm saying "screw realism, let's fix game balance first"

Running a crazy chicken at 150 kph into a 100 ton Atlas or, better yet, a cliff, should hurt. But in this game, it doesn't. We're just so used to it, we don't think about it, but it requires far more suspension of belief than light mechs not taking much damage when jumping off cliffs. The legs can actually absorb some of the impact from hitting the ground. The nose cannot.

[Mott]

Ran into a CGB 12-man last night which included a few of their best... pop-tarting is not dead. #OwOwOwMaketheBadJumpersStop