65 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Apnu, on 08 July 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

I'm not a high Elo player, but I have seen less pop-tarts now than before. I'm not sure if that's because of all the new shiny clan mechs w/out JJs people are taking, or if its the falling damage changes. Either way, I'm happy with less poptarts. In 12v12 matches, I see about the same number of poptarts. So who knows if the changes are affecting poptarts as intended or not.

I attribute that more towards the MM, than anything else really.

[CyclonerM]

Sure, because it was fine to jump from a mountain and have pratically 0 damage.

In one of the first novels, a Rifleman loses almost all of its back armor just sliding on its back ..

[Apnu]

Deathlike, on 08 July 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

I attribute that more towards the MM, than anything else really.

Possibly, the MM does seem to make strange decisions. Sometimes it acts like its personally punishing me by putting me on under tonned teams (before 4x3, its less of an issue now, but sometimes still happens) and putting me with newbs who are clearly not in my Elo bracket. There are times this will happen all evening -- not like a one-off match. Its more like I'm constantly on the team that appears to be playing the game for the first time, such as shooting guns in the air for no reason, running off in all directions of the map, charging at the enemy's known position one or two at a time... stuff like that. And I'll be on team after team after team like that, while the enemy, clearly is experienced and organized (in so much as solo games are organized).

And other nights, its the opposite. I consistently find teams that have seasoned vets, good chemistry, good mix of builds and everybody knows their role and position in the match.

And other nights its random, which is what I expect when solo pugging.

This game needs more than just Elo brackets. It needs a newbie server, where newbs can play with other newbs until they get 'x' amount of XP to "level out" of the newbie jail. I've seen lots of games do something like this. Even in single player games there is something of a tutorial in the first handful of levels to teach the player how to play the game and game concepts.

We lack this, and the game suffers because of it.

CyclonerM, on 08 July 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

Sure, because it was fine to jump from a mountain and have pratically 0 damage.

In one of the first novels, a Rifleman loses almost all of its back armor just sliding on its back ..

I believe in one of Justin Allard's Solaris matches he scrapes much of the armor off the back of his mech scooting along some wall. Maybe that's the same event?

[Deathlike]

Apnu, on 08 July 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Possibly, the MM does seem to make strange decisions. Sometimes it acts like its personally punishing me by putting me on under tonned teams (before 4x3, its less of an issue now, but sometimes still happens) and putting me with newbs who are clearly not in my Elo bracket. There are times this will happen all evening -- not like a one-off match. Its more like I'm constantly on the team that appears to be playing the game for the first time, such as shooting guns in the air for no reason, running off in all directions of the map, charging at the enemy's known position one or two at a time... stuff like that. And I'll be on team after team after team like that, while the enemy, clearly is experienced and organized (in so much as solo games are organized).

And other nights, its the opposite. I consistently find teams that have seasoned vets, good chemistry, good mix of builds and everybody knows their role and position in the match.

And other nights its random, which is what I expect when solo pugging.

This game needs more than just Elo brackets. It needs a newbie server, where newbs can play with other newbs until they get 'x' amount of XP to "level out" of the newbie jail. I've seen lots of games do something like this. Even in single player games there is something of a tutorial in the first handful of levels to teach the player how to play the game and game concepts.

We lack this, and the game suffers because of it.



I believe in one of Justin Allard's Solaris matches he scrapes much of the armor off the back of his mech scooting along some wall. Maybe that's the same event?

For solo, it's desperately trying to match weight classes, and those in demand (mediums+lights), tend to have wide Elo ranges because Elo is actually ignored in lieu of trying to just "get that particular class".

For groups, you're probably going to get pulled into that queue more often than not, trying to fulfill weight class matching as much as possible.. unless you or the opfor is a 12-man. Elo becomes less of a factor over time due to what it is waiting for (primarily, weight class matching).

Edited by Deathlike, 08 July 2014 - 09:42 AM.

[Apnu]

Deathlike, on 08 July 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

For solo, it's desperately trying to match weight classes, and those in demand (mediums+lights), tend to have wide Elo ranges because Elo is actually ignored in lieu of trying to just "get that particular class".

For groups, you're probably going to get pulled into that queue more often than not, trying to fulfill weight class matching as much as possible.. unless you or the opfor is a 12-man. Elo becomes less of a factor over time due to what it is waiting for (primarily, weight class matching).

I believe you. Makes for some odd gaming sessions tho. No biggie, I'm still goofing off with the game until CW.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Alistair Winter, on 08 July 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

As much as I hate the fall damage scaling, I agree with this. It's not a terrible idea. It's just a matter of tweaking fall damage along with the jump jet effectiveness.

One area I'd like to know about is the scalar multiplier, the Patch Notes gave us how to calculate the base min, but I'm not sure how the multipler works yet.

Quote

Spoiler

• Punishing heavy and assault mechs for jumping off cliffs without jump jets will add another tactical element to the game.
  
• Making the light mechs take very little damage from falling will restore a smidgen of viability to light mechs without jump jets , and will also increase viability of light mechs with jump jets.
  
• Lots of fall damage for heavier classes and very little fall damage for lighter classes, means that lighter mechs can go just about everywhere, but heavier mechs will have limited mobility.
  
• Widening the gap between 1 and 6 jump jets will improve the situation, as 1 jump jet should be enough to break the fall when jumping off cliffs, but not enough to climb hills.
  
• 4 jump jets should be enough to choose between a really high jump with no breaking (and thus, lots of leg damage) or a short jump with breaking.
  
• 6 jump jets should give really high jumps with breaking, but the weight of the jump jets will rob you of a lot of firepower.

I would take fall damage over all the other attempted solutions to poptarting, any day of the week. With the right tweaking, this alone may be enough to deal with poptarts, even without the reticule shake and the forward drift. Especially if hard falls leads to knock-down, leaving your mech incapacitated a few seconds if you make a bad jump (e.g. falling 200 feet without breaking the fall).

Yeah something along these lines is fine by me, if the intent is to deal with poptarting with fall damage. The other thing is that now we will need to at least keep a stock number of jump jets for normal performance with using jump jets and we will being having more trade-offs with builds that do and don't use JJs.

I'm just glad that fall damage will be making more sense now that we have a good starting point for testing and tweaking; I felt the initial numbers used were pretty close and I didn't have much problem running my Locust after the patch.